glo41f

"What else needs doing to the grass? " I recall that grass embankments were usually very well trimmed by the gangers and a couple of what might be termed "up ward looking" pictures at trains running at the top of the embankment shows quite long stringy elements in the grass. Incidentally my first primary school was on the top of an embankment of a busy single track branch line and in summer it was always catching fire. It is something that I have never seen on a model. A scorched area perhaps? That said I am not familiar with the area of LB and our leader lives there so I will shut up! As I am oft told by spouse and children "what do you know about it?". Sorry Martin Long

l loved the pictures of the A1's at LB. Surely these are one of the most handsome types on the ECML? Purposeful and powerful and modern looking. I love them (and the A2's) and wish I could find and excuse for one in my little bit of East Anglia.LB is looking really great now that the buildings are in place and is a great credit to the foresight and planning of our leader. (I do feel that the "grass" on the embankments could do with a bit of attention though!) One of my favourite layouts was one described in the MRC 1979 Annual (remember those?) under the title "South for Moonshine". It is a southern layout but the concept is applicable anywhere. The scenery etc is not realistic but the operation could not be faulted in that trains departed for a place and arrived back from another place,, It must have been magical to operate as I imagine you would soon lose yourself in the concept of operations. I would love to rebuild this perhaps even in 4mm but that is unlikely to happen. These days such a layout would be unlikely to be built as its operation demands a level of discipline which seems sadly lacking in today's modellers. Finally may I wish everyone who lurks herein a very happy Christmas and a brilliant 2018. I hope you get everything you wish for. Thank you for the learned and oft amusing posts made on here which makes these dark days more bearable. Regards Martin Long

The pictures of the V2 are most interesting and thank you for sharing them. They show what a thoroughbred the loco is. What is really intriguing is the pile of ash in front of the smokebox which nobody has seen fit to sweep off. You can just imagine the effect that the ash which drops into the 2:1 gear underneath will have acting like grinding paste! No wonder they went off beat failrly often. Perhaps if Sir Nigel has put the valve gear behind the cylinders as on the B17s, this Achilles heel of the design would have been eliminated. Martin Long

Looking at the pictures of Edward Thompson on here ( I will refrain from commenting on the aesthetics of the loco!), I notice that the large cylinders are quite a bit outboard of the running plate. If this is to scale, were these beasts restricted as to where they could go as I could see some lineside impedimenta receiving terminal damage! The cement train looks very clean. We had a Blue Circle Cement factory just north of Ipswich and all the wagons were absolutely covered in thick white powder as indeed was the adjacent station (Claydon), goods shed and signal box. The local houses also suffered from the fall out and there was great rejoicing when the plant closed. Martin Long

A4 Miles Beevor reminded me that I was involved in the administration of the estate of his widow. She had one of the nameplates in the house. It was kept by her son who presumably still has it. Never saw the loco though there was a nice picture of it in the house. I went to a local show last Saturday. Not very inspirational as to layouts but there was a trader there who was selling a rather large collection of kits at what I thought were very reasonable prices. He told me there was no call for these things these days.( I think I may have given the impression that I wanted to dispose of a number!). That rather bears out what has oft been said here. I am impressed that Sir seems to be able to knock out quite complex models seemingly daily. These dark days I find it too cold to go to the shed or, if I go, the hands refuse to work after a while and mistakes get made. I really envy those of you who have warm dry places in which to conduct your black arts about which we dare not speak. I have spent today dismantling a layout belonging to a dear friend who passed away. It was a sad duty as I was reminded of the dreams that the railway represented and the plans that were in place for its development. If you can enjoy what you have whilst you are able as you just do not know what is coming. (I am a fine one to talk but the spirit is willing!) Martin Long

Wow! Thank you so much for sharing this epic project with us. Although not a Southern type by birth location, I spent many happy holidays in Wessex and recall Basingstoke station in its prime. I am awestruck by your productivity and the speed with which you are able to write it all up. I love the ambience and the scene you are creating. Truly amazing and you seem to be having so much fun with our Spanish friends too. Thank you Martin Long

"I thought there was an interesting and long letter dealing with the MRJ article on Little Bytham in this months MRJ, the views being those of Iain Rice." I thought Mr Rice totally vindicated our leader's views and indeed made some potentially controversial points. Perhaps the most contentious is that to create a system the size of LB or Retford, then one needs to use 00 or EM standards in order to make it work. The finer standards advocated by some are better employed on small layouts which are basically very simple in concept. Has this not been the theme here from the outset? The point made about the track gauge it is averred is only relevant when a "head on" view is taken which, although common these days, was rarely seen in days of yore as the technology did not easily allow for this. It seems that if you want a big reliable system then use the tried and tested route! Martin Long

I have to say that I wholeheartedly agree with a comment made earlier in this thread that the "old" BRMs were so much better than today's productions. Although the paper and perhaps the illustrations were not as fine as the processes involved have improved so much, but I always learnt something from those old magazines and still do. The contents were balanced and there was always a couple of constructional articles to get the inspirational juices going. I do not feel that any of the current crop of monthly offerings come anywhere near those of yore. When I infrequently attend exhibitions, I always look out for the old mags and invariably take a few back usually for a small donation to the hosting club. Once in the chair with a suitable beverage, I am transported back to the days when the monthly offerings were eagerly anticipated. Sadly no longer the case. I have kept a few of my favourites which are re read from time to time (especially those with articles about my layout!). Happy days Martin Long

" The “bashing and swearing, singed fingers, try again, struggle to find the right bits, endless fabrication, problem solving and - well, yes, mess, then the stand back and feel smug at my efforts” experience is why I do this." A true encapsulation of my own experiences. I am pleased that I have not trod this path alone! Sometimes you feel like giving up and then inspiration strikes and the problems move somewhere else. I guess it is a frame of mind. Well done to all who have got through this process and emerged the other side with new confidence. Martin Long

Just love the "proper" Silver Fox. Really looks the part and truly capable of running non stop to Waverley. As to the speculation on the future of kits I would suggest that the large ranges seen in the past will inevitably contract. However there is the opposite dynamic in the increasing cost of RTR/RTP due to a number of factors beyond the industry's control. Am I wrong in feeling that there will be at some stage a crossover point when it will become more economic to build again rather than buy? We can also factor in the prospect of new materials coming on stream such as the resin type castings now used by Just Like the Real Thing and various 3D processes. The cost of these will probably come down in the medium term. Mind you it will be too late for me. The more I see of LB the more I want one too! Martin Long

"Why do people continue building on dodgy foundations, a bodge on top of a bodge." I wonder if through inexperience or some other misunderstanding that they do not appreciate what has happened and persist in the process. Could this be one reason why kit building has the reputation it has? Lord knows I have done some "bodging" in my time but it was done as I wanted to change the eventual outcome of the modelling process typically to make a different version or to overcome a known issue with that kit. I suspect that most who lurk herein, have done the same over the years. However, that apart, it may well be not so much a factor of the builders competence but rather poor instructions or design that would not trip up a more experienced modeller. I suppose that is the value of having a club or some forum where help can be asked for but sadly, the greybeards of the clubs are rapidly disappearing so folk can flounder on. When you reflect on kit building/bashing and all the tribulations it can bring, can you really wonder why folk now prefer to buy the perfect model? Martin Long

"Chatting to many yesterday (and I've alluded to this before in the previous post), I think O Gauge is rapidly following the mainstream 4mm path with a growing dependence on RTR or having stuff built on commission. Perhaps the latter was always there in the senior scale, but previous RTR O Gauge (in my experience) was either high-priced 'tinplate' (new) or high-priced Far East brass. With Dapol's 0-6-0s coming out (fully-finished) at around £200.00 and Heljan's forthcoming Gresley Pacifics fully-finished at around £700.00 (?), along with the same firm's diesels, then the O Gauge kit manufacturers (as in 4mm) will start feeling the pinch. " Tony You have rather come to the same conclusion that many of us in 7mm have. Already the kit market is declining in the scale and I fully expect this to accelerate over the next few years. However, I remain to be persuaded that this is a bad thing overall. A lot of folk are turning to 7mm precisely because cheaper quality RTR items are now readily available and one does not have to be a Billy Wizz at construction. I strongly suspect that many of the Hattons forthcoming Gresley pacifics will rarely if ever turn a wheel on a layout being purchased because of other reasons. (Hand up as I have ordered one and no A4 ever worked regularly in Norfolk!). Your Black 5 really looks good and clearly your talents extend to other scales. I would love to have a LB type layout but it is not possible at this time. Sitting at the side of the railway watching the trains roll by is to be transported back to those days when the only cloud on the horizon was the nagging worry that ones Latin homework had not been fully completed! There is a series on Yout tube (German) Esienbahn Romantic where the theme of the layouts portrayed is often related to the "dream" and that is what you have achieved. By the way I wonder why in Germany particularly they are far more appreciative of railway modellers than we are in the UK? Martin Long

Thank you for the pictures of the M&GN Ivatts. Despite their rather ungainly lines I rather like them. However, I do not think you are being fair to the M&GN by showing them so weathered. As I recall they were kept fairly clean and certainly did not appear as rusty as 43106 is shown. That happened after they were sent away in 1959. I have to say that I have never really "got on" with wiggly underframes. Things seem to work a lot better when the slop inherent in such devices is eliminated though I will concede that current collection is possibly better. Frank Dyer who gave lots of tips to us young (then) modellers was most emphatic that compensation etc was not needed if you built everything square. I believe Mr Jackson also has similar views. His locos like those at LB work for their livings. Martin Long

Thank you for the picture of 60157. Of course it ranks as one of my all time favourite ECML locos! (Guess it should be a bit cleaner in due deference to its illustrious namesake railway!) It looks super. The talk about battery power RC is most interesting as I too feel this is the future. In this context DCC is a halfway house with the Achilles heel that it too depends on track pick to work. By moving the source of power to the prime mover we are at last emulating the prototype. Operation requires driving to the signals and all the locos will have to be re fuelled at some stage. The Red Arrow system was but a first step along the way which now has passed the baton on. With the almost daily advances in battery technology this must surely be the way to go.Please let us hear more on this. Martin Long

I too feel that the all black "snout" of the A4 was a bit of a publicity disaster as compared to the curved "normal" paint which served to emphasise the racing lines of these machines. I am in the course of building a "streamlined" B17 ("East Anglian") which was repainted in that fashion post WW2 all black. How I am tempted to ignore what actually happened and incorporate the curved separation between green and black. However this would not be right so the black snout will be the way forward when I reach that stage, (The streamlining did not make the things go any faster!) What a lot of A4's on Grantham! A wonderful sight. Martin Long

Robert The Claud looks good. When it was working a special (at the end of its days) the smokebox door ring was burnished too. There has been much comment on DCC here including the difficulties experienced with wireless DCC in exhibition halls. I was at a show at the weekend where this proved to be an issue for one layout and it was giving the operators quite a headache. Whilst having a welcome "cuppa", I read an article by Bob Essery in an early BRM in which he set out his view that when one takes a layout to a show, one owes it to the public that it should be run properly with stock and particularly operators fully up to speed with the job of working the railway to its best advantage. In some cases this means that trains do not run as frequently as they might otherwise do. I have to say that I have some sympathy with his views and on the layout I was associated with as an operator, we were all practiced at running it to a very high level so much so that communications were very limited as each person knew what was supposed to happen. Nothing was allowed on the railway that had not been tested before and proven to work as required. What I saw at the weekend was the antithesis of this where folk had turned up with locos and stock and some of it frankly did not work resulting in the display being downgraded as issues were resolved on the hoof so to speak. In this context DCC seems to add a further complication in that fault finding could lead to the stock, the equipment, the track or the digital links and the operator. Not the best picture to present to the paying public. Is this a counsel of perfection or should the public see us "warts and all"? Martin Long

Gents Fascinating stuff on the recent trackwork gallop. I am tempted to ask though, why bother too much if the gauge is wrong? (Do not answer that!) To me the real issue is the acceptance of the bulk of modellers of the dreadful Peco Streamline which is plonked down without much thought it seems. When I was into 4mm many years ago I used SMP track and made my own pointwork which did not look too bad. The issue then was the depth of commercial wheel flanges which made the replacement of wheels on most stock necessary itself no bad thing but expensive! The present desire for super detailed models which inter alia have quite good wheels is admirable but when placed on that awful track, for me it is a waste of effort. It is even worse in N scale where the rails are far too high and look like scale girders. The current fad of magazines to publish close up views of trains only serve to emphasise how awful the track is. Perhaps trackwork now is the last bastion of toy trains? Martin Long

Robert You might reasonably suppose that you will have time galore when you retire. I should not count on it! Something always arises to take attention away from modelling I have found. I hope you achieve everything that you want though . We cannot have too many EC based layouts these days! Regards Martin Long

Great to hear about P'Boro. Your apposite comments reflect my views exactly particularly on the track layouts that no engineer would ever set out! Although in my patch, I had two other events that weekend and so was not able to go along. Interesting about the DCC techo thing as I know the owners of this layout and they were exceedingly frustrated at the issues they were having. I guess you can be too clever sometimes! What lovely pictures of the Clauds. Surely they are the most elegant ex GE types ever? In the past I did the B12/L1 conversion (written up by David Percival in the MRC) and then tried the Mallard kit which was too complex for its own good. This was recognised by Fred Blackman the designer and he redid the underframe but the kit was sold on to Blacksmith Models and the mods have never seen the light of day. As you say one could not acquire the parts for the price you paid. The LNER thing is getting up a head of steam is it not? Martin Long

There was a Gresley set of Ex LNER GE section "shorties" which was painted chocolate and cream in the early 50's. It was used on the Broadsman as I recall. Did not last long though.Some B17s were painted in experimental liveries as well at that time. I rather liked the BR express blue and was sorry it was found to be impractical. Martin Long

The latest pictures of LB are really great thank you. It is looking so real now and the point rodding is greatly helping to add realism. (Your comments on the Wills version of rodding caused me to look a them and they are very good for 7mm so thank you for that lead.). I can readily empathise with your review of your modelling situation. Like most of us who have been in the hobby a while, I have too much stuff particularly locomotives that I have built or otherwise acquired over the years. Some rarely turn a wheel in anger. That said they hold a place in my affections as they represent a lesson learn or a challenge overcome on the journey. My dilemma is whether to hold on to them or dispose of them as they are no use sitting in boxes or gathering dust. I find myself agonising over what to do which results in nothing being done! My family have made it clear that they do not want to "clear up my junk" when the inevitable happens and part of me says get rid of it whilst you still can and that includes the layout which is getting too much to maintain. I am rather envious that you 4mm types can make models a lot quicker and that our Leader has his secondary string to his bow with the book activities which enables a refreshing refocus at times. Martin Long

As well as the West Riding sets, we also had Derby Lightweights in East Anglia which has only one power car and a different window configuration. I have been working on one in 7mm using the Bachmann Chinese built offering. Sorted out the window issue but trying to get a smooth joint between the reshuffled parts is proving to be rather fraught and I have not achieved the effect I wanted yet. They are rather like mobile barns with a large and airy interior. I have to say that I loved riding in them when they first came out and got very miffed when the driver sometimes pulled down the blind thereby obstructing the view forward. Martin Long

Thank you for the update on Blakeney. (I had a lapse and could not remember its name!) I saw this at the Southwold show many years back and was knocked out by the realism of the buildings and the smoothness of the operation. RJ was in attendance with GK and I had a long chat with him in the course of which he mentioned his work on Retford which at that stage was a concept and a few boards. He also told me what happened to Dunwich. We also discussed loco building in some depth and he was I felt of the opinion that things should be made as solidly as was possible as if you got the track right there was no need for flexibility in the mechanism. Frank Dyer was also strongly of this view. They are all wonderful modellers and their creations give great delight to us striving to emulate their efforts. ( I write as one who has a mysterious short circuit on a 3 point shunting plank and it is driving me nuts! Never had such problems with Super 4 track!) Martin Long

Thank you for the pictures of the Retford Duo's creation. These two gents are at the top of the tree as far as I am concerned and I love seeing their handiwork. Thank you for sharing with us. I am a great admirer from afar of the Retford project though not being fortunate enough to see the thing for real. As our leader is familiar with the system and indeed is an operator there I would like to ask a question or two. Roy J. was always a bit of an iconoclast where trends in modelmaking were concerned and I recall his essay in an early MRJ decrying compensation and other fancy things which were then the rage in finescale saying that his models had to earn their keep by running long and hard around large layouts. That was in Dunwich days. Now Retford is about five(?) times the size of Dunwich and the distances travelled by locos and rolling stock must be huge. Is there any signs of things physically wearing on RJ's stock. I would have thought that connecting rods and valve gear components would be the first failures given the distances travelled but rolling stock axleboxes would also show some wear too. I know of one venerable 7mm model which is now 30 plus years old and such is the wear that it can turn a quarter of a wheel revolution without the con rods moving. The owner is reluctant to renew as it is still a reliable workhorse. (It has been through a couple of motors). RJ would also experience motor failure perhaps given the mileages run. It would be most interesting to have some comments please on how the Retford stock is lasting. Finally does the exquisite GE based layout of Geoff Kent still exist? Always thought that that was one of the best too. Thanks Martin Long

Thank you for the Brit pictures. They bought tears to my jaded eyes (well at least the ones with the BR1 tenders did.) Mention has been made of Mopok kits. Whilst lacking in detail, for their time the finish was better than most of us could hope to achieve and they were relatively easy to make. The same could be written about the PC models kits which with care could make up well. Both were let down rather not by the design but by the rather weak glues that were available at the time which often cased the models to fail rather spectacularly. The Tri-ang bogie utility van could be enhanced using a white metal set of parts in a green box from from Roxey Mouldings as far as I recall. It had bogies and corridor connections and one had to take off the opening doors and glue them into the door frames thereby eliminating the huge hinges. It still remained a bit short but it looked the part and scaled up quite nicely. It was possible to correct the length too it it really bugged the owner, I did two of them one in green and one in maroon as I rather like these vehicles (and have a couple in 7mm now!) They were to be seen all over the network often far from the Southern system. I also liked the Hornby 4 wheel version though it was a rather garish green. Again very successful vehicles and still to be found on a number of heritage lines. We also had one of the Hawksworth full brakes on duty on the GE as it regularly worked "Enparts"" from Stratford to Norwich and March. At that time is was in corporate blue livery. The N scale N2 looks nice. What an admirable use of technology too. I had one produced by Trackmaster which was clockwork powered. It was to correct scale length too. Inevitably the spring went and spares were there none. Did anyone else have one of these old stagers and do they still exist anywhere? I am making one in 7mm but have to arrive at a decision as to the type. We had a few of the non condensing ones locally where their speed on cross country journeys was appreciated, However to my eye they look rather naked and I would prefer to do a condensing one which of course tended not to stray far from the Capital and certainly not to rural East Anglia. So it sits in its box awaiting a decision. Martin Long