BetweenTheTunnels

Thanks, yes I have!

@whart57 Just a quick update to say thanks again - i've joined the 3mm Society and spent a pleasurable hour reading back through the past three of four 'Mixed Traffic' digital editions. I think that paves the way for ordering some rail and wagon kit! Maybe this adventurer is off the blocks..... Richie

Mike, Thanks for that ... thats definatively a better option, i'd missed that somehow. Do you happen to have a drawing that shows a cross section, 90 degrees to that one? I cannot see one in the thread at all. Richie

Mike, What a wonderful resource you have built up - many thanks for providing the link. If i've read the drawings right - using one that gives a side sectional view of a guards compartment, these figures added us should give me the distance I want? Hope its ok to post this snapshot of the image, i will remove it if you wish. Which I make the be a decrease from roof top of 9 7/8" .... over a length of 43 3/4". Do you agree i've got that right? Richie

Hi Rich, Ah I get it now! Thanks for the further explanation - said i was being thick! I see what you mean about the different profiles. The MJT looks flatter, while the RDEB looks taller and less rounded? I take it one is reasonably right and the other two are wrong .. or is it that they are different coach designs and hence are slightly different? Do you know? Pete, Thanks for that. I can see this is going to be a case of learning new skills beyond those i expected to learn! No bad thing, and that is an interesting way forward. Potentially (longer-term) im going to need quite a few, should the layout progress beyond the trial/error 'dipping ones toe in the water' so to speak, so working on the principal you've suggested sounds a good starting practice. I may well need to read up on resin casting now! I wonder if it is feasible to do the entire roof that way or whether the resin would bend (or go banana shape) during curing, although logically if its in a mould may be it wouldnt. Hmm, interesting throughts. Thank you. Im not near any of the preserved Gresley coaches to go look at one, but does anyone happen to know (or can suggest where to look) over what kind of distance, im guessing around 6ft, the end part of the roof curves over? Ie on a 61'6" coach, is 49'6" the middle normal style roof and the remaining 12' (well 6' as there is one at each end) is the end dome? EDIT: Just had a search through the digital Rly Modeller archive to see if they've printed any drawings of Gresley stock in the past but it doesnt look like they have. Richie

Thanks for that Rich. Sorry this is me being thick... im struggling to work out what im looking at in the picture. Im assuming the silver bit just visible is an MJT roof end? Is the golden section on top of that a Worsley roof? I've not had a set of Worsley etches before .. and the ones i've got (well sides and end, no floor/roof) are en route. Richie

Hi Phil, Sorry I should have said this isnt 4mm! Its a dabble with 3mm Scale. Also looking at the Wizard Models website the Comet roofs are 'out of stock' and the text implies its permanent, although i think the MJT castings may still be available. I assume these are the ones your talking about - https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2813.php - might be worth acquring a set of those for the minimal cost and using a base template. Richie

Hi all, I have acquired some etches from Worsley Works for a D43 Full brake, which will be my first scratchbuilt/etch brass carriage kit. The main roof I think I have the skills to deal with, but i wondered, how people created the unique profile to the Gresley roof ends that seem to slope in all directions! Is there an established method for this? If not, I am thinking that trying to create an end profile in CAD and 3D printing it, which once sanded and painted could likely achieve the correct look? Any thoughts/advice are welcomed. Richie

@whart57 Thanks for taking the time to reply. Yes, if I do decided to go ahead then i'll certainly be looking to join the Society. 36" radius as a minimum certainly works with where I was thinking - my plan was for a minimum of about 40", so im well in there. I have not come across B&B couplings, so i'll take a look at those, thanks. Glad to hear that High Level gear boxes can be fitted in, as they seem to be some of the best out there (I acknowledge it is personal preference however!) I am reasonably ok at soldering I think, probably better with a decent iron and the right type/temperature of solder! But in my mind I am viewing this as a slow and steady project that is enjoyable and is about building skills, making mistakes, correcting them and then having another bash! So i've no problems with learning by mistake! I dont recall doing much in brass before, but i have built a couple of brass (or was it Nickle Silver?) wagon chassis years ago, and have been reading up on springing wagons and bogies, so i think I am giving myself a reasonable background knowledge. "wannabe finescale modeller" was probably a bit of a pompus phrase to use! I was meaning purely that I wanted to look more towards the detail and scale dimensions end of things, rather than Triang and course scale 3mm - nothing wrong with either of course, just the latter isnt my cup of tea. I recall building a 009 loco body, possibly a Chivers, many, many years ago, that was white metal - I seem to recall quite enjoying working with it as a material as it was easy to glue and make sure there was a good neat sharp edge - course its must be 25 years ago now, so time could well have clouded my memory! The problem with starting anything new is so much to learn and do, so where to start. Hence my thought on a society wagon kit - something like a 16-ton mineral, a 12-ton box van or a blue spot fish van, seems a logical starting point. Then some track to push it up and down and check all runs ok. Thanks for the feedback that you have given and for taking the time to reply - much appreciated. Richie

Hello all, I returned to the hobby after a 20 year break during lockdown, when i started reading Railway Modeller again, then later that summer found rmWeb and have been reading and studying things on here, occasionally commenting. Reading the RM gave me some incentive to build a layout, but despite numerous scribblings I didnt progress anything and couldnt come up with anything that really worked for me, in terms of operational interest. Long story short, over Christmas I started thinking about something late 1950s/early 1960s era, based on the ECML - always having been a fan of the Gresey/Peppercorn Pacifics, not to mention Deltics. My doodles showed that wanting to run eight or ten coach trains in OO was not quite viable in the space I had, that turned my attention to N, although the lack of LNER models (once away from the Pacifics) hindered me a little, and im not sure I want to be dealing with something that small. I looked at Hornby's TT gauge but then discovered 3mm. I have played about with brass and nickle silver in the past, quite enjoy electronics and have had a play with a friends 7mm DCC system, so can see the advantages of this over DC. Having thought about things more, something in 3mm does tend to fit well in my mind, and the idea that everything from the baseboards to the rolling stock and signals has to be hand-built (ie meaning you really could say, I did that) has some attraction too. It would be a slow burn project, but thats not necessarily an issue, a friend has showed me an article in a specalist magazine about creating bespoke laser cut baseboards, which again triggers my interest - Im not an expert but I do use a bit of CAD in my day job, so could create an open-plan baseboard design im sure. All of this is a long winded way of saying im tempted to have a go, but I had a few questions that I could not immediately find the answers to and thought you chaps may have some views or opinions. Im not 100% yet, despite mulling for over six weeks, so this may not happen, but felt it was worth exploring further:- The questions i have are: a) I appreciate there are different track gauges in 3mm scale, id be looking at 14.2mm. What is viewed as the minimum radius at that gauge? I would follow the less is more idea I think, but I want to make sure im not getting near the minimum radius which could cause issues. b) I hate the Hornby style hook coouplings. I know from reading rmWeb that the 2mm Finescale chaps prefer DG couplings, which have the ability to be automatic too, but what do people tend to use in 3mm? c) I appreciate I would need to somehow create my own Peppercorn A1 and Gresley A3 models, but i think A4, B1, B17, WD, J11, J50, N2, V1, V2 as well as Baby Deltic, 31, 40, 37 and 47 models (or at least bodyshells) are available, although Im not sure the shape of the A4 model ive seen looks quite right - but then it is a very difficult shape to get right I think. Do the High Level Kits gearboxes and motors fit within a 3mm bodyshell does anyone know? I dont think a chassis would be too difficult for me to design. d) I would term myself more of a (wannabe) finescale modeller than course scale, and have no interest in the old Triang models at all. Within the terms of what is available and individual skill level, am I over-reaching to get a good quality, detailed model in 3mm that would stand up to being photographed? There certainly seems to be plenty of castings and detailing bits available, and there's always 3D printing of things to fall back on I suspect. e) (Finally!) I would probably join the Society and acquire one of their J50 white metal body kits to start with. Has anyone built one of these - any views on it as a first loco kit? Any thoughts/comments and helpful suggestions or insight on the above would be more than welcome. If I do go down this road, emphasis on the IF, it will be very progressive steady project, a bit of trackwork on a single short board to start with, a wagon kit, then maybe a Worlsey Works scratch-aid Gresley coach, then a J50 or something - im not looking to jump in at the deep end! Richie

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and inputs. I've gone back to the drawing board with pens and the back of envelopes to take the comments and ideas on board and see what I can come up with. @Harlequin thanks for the rough sketch. It is not really what I was looking for (but there again, do I really know what im looking for I ask myself!) but could well be an impetus for where to go with this project.

I have today been thinking about the comments passed here and some of my own. Following the circular layout idea through I have come up with two thoughts, possibly based around O-16.5 narrow gauge (or a light railway scheme) both of which would predominantely be freight operated. The first is purely a circular thought. While the second adapts it to give a slightly longer run and get away from curves. The idea in both cases being that there is three (or possibly four in the case of the latter design) different scenic sections to give some variety. One could be a sand quarry or terminus station, one could be a canal scene, one could be a river scene the other a cutting or maybe an additional industry or something. Given that the 6ft diameter of the boards woudl allow a 4-5ft diameter circle (including allowance of it tightening to run within the outter one at one point) it should be easy on the locomotives. Potentially the curved boards could split into four 3'x3' sections which would give storage. The extra bit being a 4ft x 15" or 18" width, as a separte board. Still food for thought. Richie

Thanks for your comments guys. I was not specifically thinking of a central operating well, but yes I dont think a solid 6' section is a good idea, as it wil be wasted space, add to the weight (and as you say) unreachable. A U shape could be worth considering, but yes im thinking freight more than passenger operation. Its not my first layout, but first for a fair while. I was thinking that the two different levels could split the scene up a bit with gradual inclines, but as we are only talking a loco and four or five wagons, i dont think it should be too much of a challenge. Thanks Chris, Not quite what i was thinking, but it certainly provides food for thought. I do like the idea of being able to shunt about separate to the main line however. Hi Pete, Thanks yes, I totally agree. A real location is a non-starter, for reasons of being able to produce something relatively quickly, aside from that of space. Richie

I am seeking some thoughts, help and suggestions for a proposed small layout idea. I'll be honest from the start and say I havent done much with layouts, although had numerous plans, for a few years now, but something (usually a lack of money and/or time!) gets in the way. Having been signed off work on sick-leave for a few weeks, and not feeling like doing an awful lot, I know I am likely to go stir crazy if i dont have something to do, so the thought has turned to trying to do a 'quick and simple' layout, which wouldnt take too long to get to a reasonably complete stage, would allow some running, and equally I could then go back and improve sections if I wanted in the future. With being 'off work', finance for this going to be very limited - brand new models are out of the question for example - as is space. I've no where to leave a layout up permanently, so what ever I come up with needs to be able to be packed away. I have looked extensively at rmweb over the past week or so, scoured back copies of model railway magazines I've borrowed from a friend and generally searched the web and just about come up with a zero of something that interests me. The straight branch terminus seems to simple and lacking in operational fun, while at the same time im not a fan of things being dead straight, it seems to look unnatural to me. I came across a 2mm circular layout based somewhere on the Woodhead route that looked good, although equally I dont want a tail chaser, i get bored just watching things go round and round! Yes I know im as awkward as they come. Initial idea What I did wonder however is whether the circular layout could be adapted somehow into an end to end, over two levels? I could get a 6' (maybe 6.5') diameter circular board in the lounge quite easily, and if it broke down in two three or four boards it could be stored easily too. Trains would therefore move from A to B (or A to C via B) for example, ie with a purpose. I've no real stock so scale wise its an open house. In some respects I thought going N gauge may be the answer so that it would give space for a loco and wagons and the curves woudnt be too tight, but searching eBay, locos all seem to be expensive (well expensive for what i can afford to spend). A narrow gauge setting like 009 seems to have the same issues. Looking at OO gauge, I came up with some Hornby wagons and 4-wheel coaches that were all under £5 (ok postage to think about but the aim is just to get things from a single place if possible). Im also willing to look at repainting and detailing things, so it didnt really matter whether they were in poor condition or even Thomas items as I could adapt them. Loco wise there seemed to be plenty of locos such as Hornby Desmond type things or even some older Triang 0-4-0s, which again could be detailed or modified in time, for small amounts of money which would be doable. Equally if anyone knows anyone who is selling such things, or good second hand shops or websites please feel free to say, im all kind of new to this having not done railway modelling for 20+ years really. Im not too concerned as to the background, be it BR or a private company - something industrial or even a light railway type setting would work. I did wonder about a sand quarry to a canal quayside or something of that style - there must be others i havent thought of. In terms of train lengths they probably couldnt be more than a loco and four or five wagons, but thats fine for me. If i did go OO a friend has said he has loads of nickle-silver Peco Code 100 metre-lengths that he no longer wants that I could have, and he thinks he has some points as well, which could be another tick for OO. Another friend has very kindly said he can lend me a Gaugemaster OO gauge controller that he does not use if i wanted it, and has offered to do the wood work for me when i work out what I want - Im one of these people who can cause themselves a lot of harm with a paperclip!! So maybe 4mm DC is the best (or is it cheapest) route? Its not going to be a perfect scale representation of a real location in something like EM - far from it, probably totally fictional, but more based around occupying me when i feel like doing something and having some fun. I appreciate that is a really wide brief and it needs narrowing down, but i would welcome any thoughts, ideas, suggestions or pointers towards things to look at. Hope somebody may have some comments.... Thanks Richie

Martin, Thanks I must admit, I was 'assuming' (always a mistake!) that Flat bottom hadnt come into use until the 1940s/50s. I had no idea it was around over a century earlier. Thanks for correcting me. Looking at the rail that my friend has given me its actually some Peco Code 60 flat bottom rail, so I think it would represent a heavier FB narrow gauge rail quite well. As it has not cost me anything, i'll see what rail chairs i can find. I know there is a fascinating topic going on over on Martin Wynne's Templot forum about 3D printing, but I feel it is way beyond me, even using a third-party printing service, as I dont have a 3D printer. But it does show what is becoming possible. David, Thanks, that piece of information is appreciated and yes I would think your conclusions are logical, so i'll see what I can acquire or make for a gauge! Ian, Thanks for that. I've read a lot of information about C&L not being quick on delivery on other threads, which makes me a bit nervous about ordering. I'll probably try ringing and see what kind of response i get. I've only just had time to start thinking about all this, but have just over two weeks off over Christmas & New Year, so it is an ideal time to try and do something if i can. Thanks everyone for your input, much appreciated. Richie

Hi Ian, Good to know I am not alone! Thanks, I hadn’t thought about the N gauge/4mm issue, useful note. I think I may need to make a track gauge up, as looking at the 2mm Association website, I think the rail my friend has given me is Code 40, so definitely too small for 009 flanges. Although the models do seem to run ok on N gauge metre lengths, but obviously no curves or check rails involved there. I am thinking I may need to get some Code 55 rail. Copper clad lengths seem hard to come by, ive seen comments about single sided copper clad ‘bowing’ after a time and use double sided, but most that I can see is now single. I am wondering whether cutting my own ply sleepers may be the way, if I can find some suitable chairs, but presumably they would need to be Code 55 specific chairs? Thanks for the other info, I look forward to seeing your design! Hi Martin, Thanks for the reply. Glad you said it was a common mistake! Thank you also for the link to your templates. I’ll download those and have a go. The layout will be set 1930s so I presume it would be bullhead rail? Richie

Hi all, I have, what I suspect, may well be a familiar story recently. Having acquired one of the superb Bachmann Double-Fairlie locomotives - purely to go in the display cabinet, as the Ffestiniog is a line I've always had an affinity to, I now seem to have acquired a Baldwin to go with it. As both are DCC Sound fitted, im thinking a small narrow gauge shunting layout would be quite nice and achivable. Nothing that will be prototypical, but just nice to run some trains on. However, although Peco's main line and siding point work are not particularly expensive (£13/£11 respectively) by the time you've done a run-round loop, a couple of points in hidden sidings and a couple of sidings on the layout, Im getting up to the £130 range, which is not at an option at this time of year. Therefore Im thinking of using templates from Templot to build my own trackwork. A friend of mine who is a 2mm Finescale modeller, has offered me some rail - Code 55 I think. But it raised a few questions: a) As 009 is N gauge spacing, can I use N gauge track gauges without any problems? b) Does anyone know what size pointwork I should select in Templot for narrow gauge lines, Im guessing something around A5/A6 is similar to the Peco 12" radius siding points, and im guessing something like A8 for a Peco mainline style point? I appreciate there arent 'precise' matches as it is different geometry, im just looking to get something that would look similar/right. c) Can anyone suggest what the sleeper spacing should be? Im proposing to use soldered trackwork onto copper clad sleepers - again a friend has offered me a bag as it wont need too many, and I suspect an N gauge main line sleeper will be roughly similar to a 4mm narrow gauge one in 009. d) I am hoping I can move away from peco rail joiners, but do people put anything 'in between' rail lengths to ensure electrical separation without any rail creep or expansion? Any help/assistance/advice would be appreciated. I think there is a setting in Templot to specify the sleeper spacing, but im only just finding me feet with the software, so dont really want to go messing around too much with settings. Richie

None, its a different style of magazine to what MLI was - more regular magazine style but without news content. As @tractionman said more like the old Railway World.

Hi all, I borrowed some 2FS magazines off a friend who is a member over Christmas and while looking through last year's 'Yearbook' there is a reference in the 2mm FineScale track standards section to "the development of similar standards for several narrow gauges is being formulated and will be included in a future issue". The creation of a fictional 3ft-gauge railway has been at the back of my mind for a long time, and while it would probably be beneficial to look at 4mm to the foot scale, giving a track gauge of 12mm, I did wonder if the aforementioned standards had come about and what they were? Can anyone offer any thoughts? It does occur to me that 4mm using 2FS standards and track to a gauge of 12mm would probably not be too far away from reality? EDIT: Mind you, thinking this through since I posted, I suspect wheels could be a problem as well as the 2mm Association axles would not be long enough, so the idea is probably a none starter - still I would be interested to see what the Association did actually come up with? Richie

Interesting way of working. Where did you get the tag strips from if you don't mind me asking? Richie

Does EDM Models stock it? Richie

Would it be that removable after you've ballasted the area? Richie

Thats being done by Cavalex in OO! If its suitable for the late 1980s in the East Mids/South Yorks area, one hopes it not too expensive .. I have spent up!

No connection with the above company other than as a customer, but have just received an order of Accurascale wagons from them and it was some of the best packaging I have seen in a long time. Despite the models being secure within their original boxes, each box was wrapped in bubblewrap, positioned within a far larger box, that had air packing bags top and bottom and spongy foam all around on all four sides, plus top and bottom. Order to delivery (with DPD Local) was about four days, all ordered through the website. My around about way of highly recommending them. I also had a very well priced Bachmann 37 from them recently which again was quick delivery (Royal Mail) and well packaged. Would have no problems in using them in the future. Richie

@Accurascale Fran Fran et all, Can I congratulate you on the PTA wagons. I have not been back in the hobby long, and did a lot of reading up on the iron ore wagons, initially shocked at price ... which I hasten to add was purely me being 20 years out of touch! I thought long and hard about a purchase, a decision made more difficult by the realisation that there was a likelihood that once produced there may not be another run. Finally around New Year having decided to take the plunge and by an entire rake (something I never did in the old days!) there was the discovery as per my previous message, that the grey/orange inners were sold out with yourselves. One of your colleagues pointed me elsewhere and I found some inners and outers at TheModelCentre (TMC). I have to say it really took a lot of courage when I saw the final total not to abandon the idea, but I clicked that final button and made the purchase. They have arrived with me in the last hour and I have to say I am astonished. Not only at the quality of the build and manufacture, but the style, professionalism and quality of the packaging. I should note TMC did a wonderful job of packaging them for DPD delivery too. The level of detail on the wagons far exceeds my expectations and is so far ahead of what I used to know when I was last doing model railways. Needless to say, any concerns I may have had about a significant three figure cost evaporated away as I carefully opened the first box. I can not only see where the money is, but also feel that the value for money is very high. Well done to all involved. Absolutely superb and a credit to your team, the factory and the brand. I doubt I shall have any concerns about further purchases from yourselves, and would recommend them to anyone. Have some significant saving up to do now, as well as working out what wheels I need to convert them to P4! Thank you. Richie