Blobrick

Thanks for your help chaps, looks like coach sides are the way to go on this. What's the betting by the time l ve finished this project, Bachmann/Hornby will announce their own version !

Thanks again lads

Bob C

9 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Just type 4cig and 4tc in Google images - the window layout is totally different.

Hi HN

 I d tried looking at google etc, almost all the images were 3/4 view, so l could not be sure, hence my question. At least l know now

many thanks 

Bob C

I would like to ask the Southern EMU guys their option on a possible conversion in 4mm scale.

I have taken a look at the Kernow  (Bachmann) 4mm scale 4TC set. To my untrained eye it looks very similar to the earlier 4CIG units delivered to the SR between 1965/66 for work on the Brighton line.

As I do not have any diagrams of either type of  unit, l was wondering, part from motorising the 4TC, what other alterations (if practical)  would be required to make an acceptable 4CIG? 

I suspect that if it was an easy conversation Kernow would have already considered it!

Cheers

Bob C

23 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

With regards to the whistles being removed and replaced with horns, I seem to remember reading that this was done around about the same time the units received their yellow warning panels. Unfortunately, looking at the bloodandcustard website page on the 2-Hap's, they don't have a date for when 6061 received it's yellow panel.

 

Not sure about the periscopes, but from photographic evidence, it looks like they'd lost them when/before they were repainted blue.

Hi Geep7

Thanks for your input,   its just typical that the unit l m interested in details are not available on the B&C web site, TBH that's the go to site for most research of Southern units.  I had read a comment somewhere on the web that Bachmann's 6061 was suitable for the time scale 1959 to mid 60s, so your comments seem to confirm this comment, thank you for that. I can hear my wallet whimpering in the other room now!

Cheers

Bob C

Can anyone confirm when 2 HAP  unit 6061 built in 1959, would have lost its whistles and have been fitted with horns?  Would the Periscope also have been removed around this time as well?

Bob C 

11 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

Page 13 of the Ian Allan colour album 'Diesels in Wessex' shows D6518 in GFYE and D6501 still in plain green double-heading a southbound freight past Eastleigh depot on 29th April 1967, with an unidentified GSYP loco standing on an adjacent track. Heljan has produced a model of D6518 in this condition, with full-length white stripes, using the later tooling.

The other image (which is saved on my laptop and could post but for copyright uncertainty) shows GFYE D6563 on shed at Eastleigh with GSYP D6504 and plain green D6509 for company. This one is dated 12th March 1967. D6563 has clearly just emerged from the Works as it is in very clean condition with freshly-painted FYEs and bufferbeam pipework connectors. The bufferbeams are black not red, this appears to be the usual way GFYE repaints were turned out by Eastleigh. It also has full-length stripes and again Heljan has modelled this one in this livery but using the older tooling with a rather flattened roof arc.

AFAIK the majority of Class 33s going GFYE did not have their exhausts modified at the same time (so many photos taken from ground level....!) but D6553 and D6566 definitely did. This would explain Heljan's choice of D6553 for their first GFYE release which used the original tooling as it only had the later exhaust - I assume that, when it came to the second one, rather than run the same again numbered D6566 they wanted to do the full stripe version instead and chose D6563 even though the exhaust was wrong (in which case why didn't they run off some 33/2s in green while they were at it?!) The last five 33/0s D6581-5 were built new with modified exhausts, hence Kernow's specials D6581 and D6583 in plain green, and GSYP D6582 and plain green D6585 as general releases by Heljan themselves.

BTW according to the derbysulzers website the first 33/0s to be repainted into blue were D6522/4 as late as April 1968. The push-pulls really got in the way of those!I

To briefly return to the Class 73s, E6007-11 were originally outshopped new in BSYP with lower grey stripes and no BR logos; E6012/3 had stripes and logos; E6014 onwards dispensed with the stripes. Since E6012 went into traffic in December 1965 this must surely have been the first loco to carry the double arrow logo in service after XP64 D1733.......unless anyone knows otherwise!😀

Hi  Halvarras

Thanks for a most comprehensive snapshot BR(S) of  loco liveries around 1965-67. As this is the period l m interested in, the above has been most useful

Cheers 

Bob C 

If the photo dates are correct, it seems E6004 received its SYWP by April 1967. Did E6003/05/06 receive theirs before that date?

A second trawl through the web has turned up a photo of E6003 still without SYWP in 1966, so that just leave E6005/6 to be confirmed

8 hours ago, Halvarras said:

As built E6001-3 had oval buffers, E6004-6 had round. By the time E6006 was shunting the brand new china clay slurry tanks at Sittingbourne with the inaugural Clayfreighter's headboard (so presumably 23rd February 1967) it had acquired what looks like freshly applied yellow panels.

 

The SR was notoriously slow to apply yellow warning panels to their green locomotive fleets (and it's not as if they had that many to deal with). The lack of yellow panels on E6002-6 was completely baffling considering E6001 had them from new! On Class 33 they got off to an early start with yellow panels on D6530 in 1962 but progress was so slow that many were still yellow-less in 1967 and a photo exists of D6583 still in plain green in May 1968. Yet they began painting full yellow ends on green from early 1967, as was happening on green members of other classes (especially Class 47) and I know of two photos showing plain green, GSYP and GFYE Class 33s in the same view (with a larger amount of luck the same stunt could have been pulled with Class 20 at the time).

 

There is a section on Class 33 on the Derbysulzers website which gives dates of livery applications, including FYEs on green and those surviving in plain green*. The blue repaint dates show that the nineteen push-pull conversions were prioritised over the rest, which followed on. However now I'm on the right Region but wrong subject 😀!

 

*NB much of the data comes from the Railway Observer which is known to be less than 100% accurate, but is generally correct.

Thank you for this info.

Bob C

57 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

Photo stated to be 3-3-68

 

E6004_nrPettsWood_3-3-68 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Thanks for finding this image ML. I note its a Flickr image, strange l never found it when l searched that site? Interestingly it seem to fit in with the statement on the Hattons site that suggested E6004 received its SYWP between 1967-68, as l ve seen a photo of her at Clapham circa 1967 sans SYWP and here she is March 1968 with one?  What makes it even stranger is l did find a photo of E6003 which was taken at Stewarts Lane in 1967, this showed E6003 in Green with SYWP however the two other brush type 4s in the photo have full Yellow ends. So how did E6004 received SYWP after this date?

I recently acquired a Dapol  Class 73  (E6004) in early Green livery with SYWP. This model represents  one of the 6 prototype JA locos built in 1962 to test the ED concept. With the 43 production (JB) 73/1 batch being constructed between 1965-66 and appearing in BR Blue with SYWP.

I decided to seek a photo of this loco in this livery in an effort to see how long she carried in for before being painted into  BR Blue livery, I having trawled the internet in an attempt to fine  suitable photos.

To date l have found no photos of E6004 with a small yellow warning panels as depicted on the Dapol model. The latest dated photo l could find of E6004 was one  at Clapham in 1967, but still minus SYWP.

The Hattons web site has some info on the class stating that E6004 and E6006 gained SYWP in 1967/68  (At this point full yellow ends were starting to be applied so l would have assumed that any locos having work done and not receiving a full repaint into BR Blue would have had full yellow ends and not the SYWP applied?) 

Has Dapol made a mistake here? Does anyone have a photo or can recommend a book/magazine with an image of E6004 in Green with SYWP, or for that matter any of the other 5 prototypes in this livery circa 1965, as l suspect maybe a renumbering of the model is in order?

Fingers crossed 

Bob C

23 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Yes a Noch edition so unlikely to reappear but they do turn up occasionally on eBay so keep looking 

 

Thanks Paul

I ll keep my eye out

Cheers

Bob C

 l suspect l am seeking the impossible here, as l can find no trace of this model (Kato 7074052 RhB Ge 4/4'' Edelweiss) being available anywhere on the internet. I suspect its possible a limited addition ?

However in the 1,000,000 to 1 chance, does any member know someone who may have one for sale?

10 hours ago, DGO said:

I just ran the image into Autocad I get an average distance between track centers of 4275mm RHB Coaches are about 2670mm wide behind a GE 4/4 III loco which actually sounds about right to me for the pre raised platform era, I can remember transfering between trains on another line in Switzerland and the conductor opened the door lent out and passed the cases straight across the gap, there was maybe 4 to 5 ft between the sides of the two trains, typically at a station if two trains were expected in at the same time the staff would ensure no one was in the area between the two trains, the new raised platforms mean there has to be more space between the lines which has often resulted in one or more lines being removed in the station area

 

So for European N Gauge is 1:160 26.71mm or 27mm between centers sounds right to me Your problem is that N Gauge track  at 9mm = 1440 mm at 1:160 or if using 2mm = 1 ft (300mm)  then 1350mm which is significantly wider than the meter gauge of the Rhb

 

I'd get a pair of passenger wagons and space the tracks to give a scale 1.5m between them, that should look right 

 

 

Morning DGO

thanks for the information, above.  i.5m works out at around 9.75mm in 2mm scale. I ve measured between two EW1 coaches and actually have almost 13mm between them, so although it still looks tight, l m a happy bunny.

Many thanks for your input, big help 

Bob C

2 hours ago, MikeTrice said:

The site also has a measure tool for on screen metric measuring. For the image displayed track centres are 4.15-4.2m

Hi Mike, thanks for confirming the measurements on the screen image.  I came up with exactly the same dimensions, so l ve got that part right at least 😃

12 hours ago, DGO said:

Glad I could help 

 

David

Well l ve spent the day scaling off various RhB stations that still have their original track layout, and the best average track centres l could find was around 4.2 m. I ve converted this average into feet & inches then scaled it for 2mm scale. This seems to come out around 26-27 ish mm track centres. Late this afternoon l laid the first sections of the station track work. Even after using 30mm as my standard track centre, it does look a bit narrow. As N gauge track is scaled at 9mm to represent 4ft 8 1/2, my track centres would mean the two inner  "6ft" rails would be at standard gauge spacing therefore reducing the  the distance between the tracks. So l measured between the adjacent inner  6 ft rails whick gave me a rail to rail distance of 21, mm, yet it still looks to narrow I m wondering if that's to do with the N gauge sleepers size compared to the true narrow gauge track?

Hi there DGO

Many thanks for this link. I was unaware that this sitei existed.  I ve had a quick look, and the images are excellent for the Rueun area, l ve printed the PDF files off already!  Its a very good resource, I m no doubt going to lose many hours, just looking  around the RhB network,  thanks again for this link.

One happy chappie

Bob c

Can anyone, please tell me where l might find information on the track centre distances used on RhB stations before the recent modernisation program started ?.  I m thinking about stations like Malans  Rueun or Rhazuns which were typical traditional three track layouts.

Man thanks in advance

Bob C

Thanks Gents

That's all been a big help. Much appreciated

Bob C

Hi folks 

Can anyone  confirm when the Rhb's station at Kublis was remodelled?

From the photos l ve found it would seem that it occurred some time in 2014. The Google earth project carried out in 2014 appears to capture what l suspect are the first stages of the remodelling work, but this assumption is based on the date given for the camera work on the Google site and could be earlier/later? 

It would be great to confirm a date?

Fingers crossed

Bob C

Has anyone found a way to remove the chassis keeper plate from the 14/48/58 0-4-2T chassis without having to remove the whole chassis from the body?. The reason l ask is l m contemplating removing part of the gear train running towards the front drive wheel. This will leave the model as a single axle drive, in the hope it will improve the slow running of the model?

I am sure l ve heard of someone trying this approach before, which proved to be successful, but l ve been unable to find it in this thread, so it may have been elsewhere on the tinterweb.

Any thoughts chaps?

Bob C

29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Putting "Dursley" into the Midland Railway Study Centre catalogue search turns up a variety of material, much of it pre-grouping of course, but a few photos especially of the engine shed with rebuilt entrance and locos at work on the line in the BR period. Also some listings of old magazine articles, which might be worth tracking down.

Thanks for the link Compound, some interesting photos, l ve not seen before.

Bob C

10 hours ago, Dancess said:

You may find some information on this site

 

https://sites.google.com/view/gloucestershirerailwaymemories/home

Many thanks Dancess, lots of details re Barnwood MPD

2 hours ago, justin said:

Information on locos working the Dursley branch from the late 1950s onwards is given in Gloucester Locomotive Sheds: Horton Road Barnwood by Steve Bartlett published by Pen and Sword in 2018. The information given is limited, but it does give the summer 1962 loco diagram when it was a LMS Ivatt class 2 2-6-0 duty as well as describing which panniers were regularly used from 1957 when the Midland locos were replaced.

 

Justin Edwards 

Bristol

Thanks Justin

That fits in with all of the above, so the picture is a lot clearer thanks to you gentlemen. I am indebted to you all for the information.

Many thanks Bob C

32 minutes ago, bécasse said:

These ex-MR branches were transferred to the WR post-nationalisation in two "bites". Firstly in 1949(?), they were transferred for commercial and infrastructure purposes but remained part of the Midland (? - not sure about the nomenclature) Operating Area for operational purposes including the provision of locomotives and rolling stock. Secondly, in 1958, they fully became part of the Western Region, and in fairly short-term the use of WR locomotives and rolling stock became the norm.

Well the 1958 date would fit with the lost of almost all the exMR locos at Barnwood, so that could be the answer?

16 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

Another source is online. It’s called Dursley Glos web. It has several photos of the whole branch stations etc including both BR class 22 and BR class 14 the 14 is D9500. Just for information the Gallows foot bridge is still in situ well at least is was a couple of days ago when I drove past.

 

Keith

Hi Keith

Thanks for the heads up on this site, I ve been in contact with that site owner already, who very kindly sent me enlarged copies of some of the sites photos. This site has been a great source of information and l continually return to it to check on details.

I am slowly piecing the motive power history for the line together. So far it seem that ex Midland 1F 0-6-0Ts worked as the Branch locos up until about 1957, when the last were withdrawn from Barnwood. Although the first of the Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0s had arrived at Barnwood by this time, there are one of two photos of ex MR 2F and 3Fs  working the line which l believe are around this date. A some point after, that the Ivatt 2MTs became the standard Branch loco up until the end of steam working.

However l have also come across photo of an ex GWR 74xx working the passenger service in Feb 1962?

Was this due to none availability of the booked loco and therefore a rare or once only occurrence?

I have found an undated photo showing a 16xx PT taking water on the Branch, i suspect this was a post 1962 freight working, but happy to be proved wrong. This just leaves the undated photos of what l believe to be a 64xx PT working on the Branch to fit into the time frame. Hopefully the copy of  Gloucester Midland Lines Part 3 will help?

Bob C