RobAllen

I guess that catch points compatible with Peco's bullfrog track need to be scratch built? Any pointers for further information? Now that I've started looking for them, I can see them in most of the track plans in "An Historical Survey of the Somerset & Dorset Railway" and my model would therefore look better with them.

Thanks for the details ideas @Peter Kazmierczak & @Harlequin. I will play in RailModellerPro.

I visited today and agree. A particular thank you to the exhibitors of Heybridge Wharf, Ashover and Lochty who were very friendly and incredibly helpful, answering my questions about their layouts. I took some videos, so now need to learn how to edit them together into one thing for YouTube.

Yeah. Both Bridgwater and Wells had the loop before you got to the platform, but that requires quite a lot of space. Every terminus had platforms significantly longer than the trains that actually served them and that's a look that I like. Fitting it all in is a challenge.

Oh, interesting. Another point I was not aware of. I will try and find more pictures of the surrounding areas of SDJR stations and see. I’m looking for a bit more running potential than a really quiet rural location. Maybe I’ll “upgrade” Holcombe to a market town. I do realise that regardless, I’ll have more traffic than plausible reality, and that’s a compromise I’m happy with. Equally, it would be nice not to be “all track”, so there’s some sort of balance that I need to find. For the goods shed, it seems that the SDJR preferred over-the-rails type as of the 24 stations with good sheds, 18 were over-the-rails type and 6 were not. Equally, that means there is justification for a smaller shed which would be less dominating.

That’s a really useful insight. The consequences of the length of the runround loop had not crossed my mind. Very helpful. Thanks.

Yes. I’m expecting to build and run the layout with shunting and passenger movements etc. i.e. sit down for an afternoon and run trains on my layout. Hence, a bit more “railway“ than prototypically likely in the space, if that makes sense. In an ideal world, I would like someone to be able to look at it and think that it was plausibly SDJR. Whether I can do that is another matter of course!

This is a great point. I'll have a think about options. I have been assuming it's a terminus. No real reason why though, other than the location means that there'll be a wall at the end of the baseboard. Logically, most passenger trains would terminate at Binegar. As it's my alternate history, I imagine that there's also some other train to maybe Radstock so that I can run a second set of carriages with a different loco. A station this small wouldn't have it's own shunter in reality, but I like Jinties! Goods trains would be a mix of Jinties and 3Fs most of the time, but I can imagine that a 4F is sometimes used for the coal/quarry trains. Thinking about it, I might make Holcombe a centre for marshalling wagons from separate quarries/collieries into the train to the north for no other reason than it generates additional movements. Just need to invent a backstory and possibly add another siding. Thanks for your thoughts.

Yep, that’s the one. It was set in East Anglia, BR period and was run to a sequence at exhibitions. I must get a copy of that magazine as my memory is hazy! My dad was an electrician, so had a van, which together with Peter’s car enabled the layout to be transported without the needing van hire.

If all goes to plan, I'll be visiting on Sunday. This will be my first exhibition since the late '80s when I helped my dad and Peter Marshall exhibit a layout called Burnham Thorpe.

I like the channel cut into the baseboard for it. Seems easier than raising the rail. Further comment: Though, that's a good point by Harlequin about lifting in and out. 🤔

Building a fiddle yard is in my future, soon, so paying attention as that traverser looks fantastic. You have articulated the advantages of cassettes well, but are there any disadvantages? I guess that long rakes of coaches/wagons get unwieldy when lifting to/from shelves. Anything else to consider?

Resurrecting this thread as this was the one that Google found when I was researching and it seems useful to keep the info in one place for the next person who needs information about the LMS days. All 5 S&D 4Fs (57-61) were given LMS numbers by adding 45 to each one to become 4557-4561. I can only find photos of two of them in LMS livery, though clearly all 5 must have had it: 4557 - February 1938 - Picture 29 in Bournemouth to Evercreech Junction by Mitchell & Smith 4558 - 1936 - Page 47 in The Somerset & Dorset Railway by Phillips Looking through the books I have here, other 4Fs in LMS livery were photographed on the line: 3835 - July 1946 - Page 24 in The Somerset & Dorset Railway 1935-1966 by Arlett & Lockett 3875 - August 1946 - Page 26 in The Somerset & Dorset Railway 1935-1966 by Arlett & Lockett 4046 - August 1936 - Page 18 in The Somerset & Dorset Railway 1935-1966 by Arlett & Lockett 4168 - May 1929 - Page 47 in Radstock Coal & Steam by Handley 4169 - 1948? - Page 91 in Legends of the Somerset & Dorset Railway by Hammond 4274 - 1936 - Page 52 in The Somerset & Dorset at Midford by Arlett 4417 - May 1947 - page 29 in The Somerset & Dorset Railway 1935-1966 by Arlett & Lockett 4523 - May 1947 - Page 30 in The Somerset & Dorset Railway 1935-1966 by Arlett & Lockett 3835, 3875. 4046, 4168, 4169 were right hand drive 4274, 4417 and 4523 were left hand drive. The Bachman 31-880 is LMS liveried number 3851 with the Deeley tender. The pictures of all the RHD locos appear to have the same tender, so it feels pretty safe to renumber it to any of them, including all the S&D Armstrongs if you're in the LMS era. I imagine that there are detail differences though. Interestingly Bachman 31-881 is BR early emblem 43875 with a Deeley tender, which is one of the photos listed above, so could plausibly be used as-is on an S&D layout set in the early BR period as it was shedded at Bath Green Park in 1948. Such a shame that Bachmann didn't use 3875 for the LMS one too!

A few modellers I've seen on YouTube have made similar comments. Mixing it up a bit between all the different bits of the hobby from scenery, operations, rolling stock, the work bench, etc. appears to help.

I'm fortunate to have some LMS coaches from my dad - all in LMS crimson lake, so I was happy to read "I think it is fairly clear that the SR and LMS stock used retained its SR and LMS livery." :) I'm considering getting an SR liveried set to cover that side of the Joint-ness.

Now, I need to find a close enough approximation in the RTR market…

Thanks Stephen, I have added that book to my Christmas wish list. The family are always saying that they don't know what to get me…

In https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/146249-a-typical-sdjr-train-c-1902/page/4/#comment-5335391, @Compound2632 notes "By 1933, the LMS had withdrawn all its share of the non-bogie passenger-carrying vehicles, so some interpolation is needed." Is there any information on what coaches were used on the line for local services in the late 1930s/early 1940s and what livery they carried? In Bournemouth to Evercreech Junction by Mitchel & Smith states: "From 1st July 1923, the recently formed SR and LMSR became joint owners of the route between Bath and Broadstone. It continued to be operated as a separate railway until 1st July 1930, when the distinctive Prussian blue trains were replaced by SR green coaches and LMS-liveried locomotives. The SR took responsibility for permanent way and signalling while the LMS took over operation of the line." If the LMS took over the operation of line, I wonder why the coaches weren't painted in LMS colours? I guess that by 1938, all coaches had been repainted green with Southern writing though. As the original S&D coaches were withdrawn, what replaced them? From the same book, plate 112 says that the coaches on a Evercreech Junction to Highbridge train on 4 August 1952 are ex-LMS compartment stock. This is a few years after nationalisation though. As the LMS was responsible for operations, did they provide the coaches which were then painted green? I can't imagine anyone built new coaches specifically for the S&D after 1930, so any replacements were probably cascaded down from either the LMS or SR. There seem to be very few photos of this period and I'm not good at coach recognition or determining colour from a black and white photo. Does anyone know where I can find further information on coaches in this period?

There's not many terminus stations on the S&D, only Burnham, Wells and Bridgwater as the two main terminus stations at Bath and Bournemouth were owned by the Midland and LSWR respectively. What would a new terminus look like? The main question is whether it would be two platforms as per Burnham and Bridgwater or one like Wells? I have assumed a single platform as even in 1882, they company would have wanted to avoid the expense of a second platform. Would it have an engine shed as per Wells and Bridgwater? I have assumed that it's unlikely, but thoughts appreciated on both these points. In terms of rolling stock, I want to run a combination of 1P 0-4-0Ts, 3F and 4F 0-6-0 tender engines and 3F 0-6-0T Jinties. I'd also like to run a 4-4-0 2P, but can't quite imagine why one would have appeared at Holcombe. I intend to lay Peco bullhead track and points as it looks good. So, without further ado, here's my thoughts on track laouts: First version: Looking at this, I wasn't sure if it's "too busy" with the loading bay and the private siding can only be shunted via the loading bay which may be unlikely & a hassle? So, second-version: This moves the loading bay to the end of the run-round loop and puts the station building end on to the platform. Possibly a bit too "tidy" thogh? Do either of these make sense? Are there obvious improvements or mistakes that I've made?

This is the back-story that I have invented. The Holcombe Branch In 1863, Howard Ridler had sunk the first shaft of Edford colliery near Holcombe. An innovative man, the colliery also supplied coke and installed a coal washing plant and made fuel briquettes. By the late-1870s the Edford colliery was growing significantly. Ridler set up the Edford Colliery Co. Ltd and wanted a rail connection. However, he could not come to an agreement with the Newbury tramway to extend to Edford and turned his attentions to the S&D which had recently opened the Bath extension. At around the same time quarrying had started in the Stoke Lane area when the Mendip Stone and Concrete Co. Ltd started the Fairy Cave Quarry and S C Gilson and Sons started to quarry at Cooks Wood. This was a few miles south of Holcombe and Ridler approached Mendip Stone and Concrete Co and S C Gilson & Sons and together the three companies petitioned the SDJR for a branch line connection. Flush with optimism from the formation of the joint committee and able to raise share capital, Robert Read, the SDJR's General Manager was prepared to consider the possibility and agreed to commission a study into the possibility. With fortuitous timing, the Oakhill brewery's output had risen so much that it intended to build a narrow-gauge railway to Binegar. This plan cam to the attention of the SDJR and so the SDJR determined that there was enough potential traffic to justify a branch line. The Holcombe branch opened in 1883 to goods traffic and in 1884 to passengers. With the seams around Holcombe proving to be rich, Edford colliery was very successful and along with the significant amount of Mendip stone in the Three Ashes area, the branch was kept reasonably busy. Edford colliery closed in the mid-1950's, but quarrying at Fairy Cave continued into the 1970s and at Cooks Wood until 1993. This map shows where Holcombe Branch ran: The S&D's Bath extension is in blue with the GWR lines in green. The Holcombe branch is in pink, showing the three station of Oakhill, Stoke Lane and Holcombe. It is about 6 miles long. Differences from reality I have stretched reality in order for this story to work. Specifically: Oakhill Brewery built their narrow gauge railway later in 1904 Fairy Cave Quarry was indeed run by the Mendip Stone and Concrete Co. Ltd, but didn't start operations until 1918. Neither Fairy Cave quarry or Cooks Wood quarry were really large enough to justify a railway connection Edford colliery was indeed started by Howard Ridler who did create the Edford Colliery Co. Ltd. However it was much smaller as it only had 2 shafts. Holcombe is a much bigger market town in my world. As you can probably tell, I have very much enjoyed reading about the Somerset collieries and quarries. I will post my thoughts and plans for an SDJR terminus at Holcombe tomorrow. I will also admit that having built Melcombe Road, it appeals to me that my next will be Holcombe.

My dad has had a model railway from before I was born. As I was growing up he had a OO gauge layout in the loft which was a representation of Bath Queen Square in the late 1930s/early 1940s (LMS). I ran it with him during my teens and then I went to university and life happened. At some point in the 90s, he moved to O gauge and a new layout in the garden. His OO locos, along with some coaches and wagons were stored. During the pandemic, I came back to modelling railways and built a micro-layout, Melcombe Road sidings, based on the idea that Twerton siding just outside of Bath on the SDJR was expanded to more one siding. The road in Bath that Twerton siding is next to is Melcombe Road, hence the name. With my renewed interest in modelling, my dad has given me his old OO stock. I have also acquired his library of SDJR books as since his stroke a few years ago, he no longer reads them and I wasn't going to let them go to waste! I have enough reading to last me years now... With my son leaving home, I now have a larger office (I work from home) with space for a larger layout and so a new S&D layout is planned. With the space I have, it will be an L shaped layout 2.57m by 45cm on one side (scenic) and 2.24m by 25cm on the other (fiddle yard). (That's 8'5" by 18 inches x 7'4" by 12 inches in old money.) This will be an end to end, and so will be terminus to fiddle yard in OO. Clearly there's not enough space to model any of the three terminus stations on the SDJR directly and so I'm planning a freelance or "what if" layout as many others have before me. I'm one of those people that needs a sense of place, so have been inspired by @Peter Kazmierczak's articles in RM (June/July/August 1987) and @Captain Kernow's Glastonbury and South Somerset Railway, along with others. I'm thankful that they have shared their musings. After research into the Somerset coal fields and quarries, perusing the rather useful railmaponline.com, and discovering the Oakhill brewery, along with discovering that the Oakhill Brewey ran a narrow-gauge railway to Binegar, I have invented the Holcombe Branch. That's enough of an introduction, so I'll put the history in the next post and then talk about plans as I'm looking for advice and thoughts as I'm very much a beginner still!

It's looking amazing! Thanks for the updates here. I'm on other social media sites, but find that they aren't very good at showing me all posts.

Does anyone know if there any good pictures of Burnham's goods shed and yard that aren't from the platforms side? Also is there a plan of it?

I'm glad everyone's okay and NHY minor will now have a story to tell about his first RTA! First time I drove on my own after passing my test, I stopped at traffic lights and when pulling off, put the car into reverse rather than first and hit the white van behind me. Not one of my better moments!

They appear to have ceased trading?