Western Star

46 minutes ago, Regularity said:

 

Sodomus non sapiens!

So that is what Viv Stanshall is telling us when talking about greengrocers...  (Platinum, MIke Oldfield)

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I've never quite got my head around all the permutations of the Dean and Churchward brake, only the simple form with both levers at the same end being relevant to my modelling period, so when I see DCIX, my first thought is that it's a number written in Roman numerals, in this case 500 + 100 -1 + 10.

609? too smart for me.

Here is a reminder of how Dave Stone (@wenlock) produced a wagon with DC1X brake gear.

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

609?

Pardon?

35 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

I don't understand.

Possibly think DC1X.

Stephen et al,

Gentlemen, my apologies for what comes hereafter, a serious case of mis-representation has occurred and must be corrected.

In writing about the MR D351 being tipped into a vessel along the River Severn I referred to the vessel as a "barge";  Ian Pope has put me right on that matter...  what is shown in the photograph is a Trow.  Sorry Ian, must try harder.

Worse is to come...  in a case of mistaken identity I have got the name of the trow completely wrong.  I have received a severe wrist slap from Ian because (a) the mistake is mine and (b) the name of the trow is "Finis".  How I made such a mistake is lost to me, time to have my hearing checked.

regards, Graham

On 14/06/2022 at 10:50, Western Star said:

Stephen @Compound2632,

The reason that I am asking is that I thought that the wagon was being tipped at Lydney whilst Ian Pope tells me that the location is Bullo Pill.  So the reason for asking is not D299 versus D351; the reason is the question "why would a MR wagon be tipped at a dock in the FoD?" and to resolve that question Ian and I wish to know "Lydney or Bullo".

 

On 18/06/2022 at 17:29, phil_sutters said:

Is this the photo in question? It is in the file I made when researching my family's Forest of Dean connections. 

This is the image that I remembered when I asked the question a couple of weeks back.

Yesterday I had lunch with Ian Pope and we talked about the photo.  Ian has convinced me that the location is Bullo Pill rather than Lydney, further Ian has given the name of the trow as Finis and that the trow was owned by the Trigg family (who provided Ian with access to the original print).

The wagon is probably tipping small stone into the trow - where probably is close to certainly, the Trigg family used their trow for carrying stone to re-inforce the banks of the River Severn. The stone may have come from a quarry on the Forest of Dean Branch, "small" so as to not damage the bottom of the trow and that implies that the quarry which supplied the stone probably processed the stone before loading.

regards, Graham

15 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

"Don't be afraid of big tools". 🙄🙄🙄

And do not be afraid of big fools....

4 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

Is this the photo in question? It is in the file I made when researching my family's Forest of Dean connections. 

Yes, thank you for posting.

3 hours ago, Western Star said:

When Ian Pope says that he has no knowledge of any MR wagon being tipped at Lydney then I rather wish to see the image again so as to close the matter.

Much to my surprise I have remembered where I saw the photo....  in Ian's book on FoD PO wagons...  and dash it, the caption does say Bullo Pill.  I have to agree with that attribution because I can see now that the tip is not one of those at Lydney, the surrounds to the tip are just not correct.

The MR content is a single wagon, end doors are presumed because the wagon is being tipped hence D351 (a diagram which feels that a thread of appreciation is overdue).  The condition of the photo and the state of the wagon suggest that there is no number on the side sheeting so probably taken in the Edwardian era.

Ian has suggested to me that the load could be stone rather than coal, I shall pursue that thought with him.

regards, Graham

Stephen @Compound2632

I shall let you decide which part of your post is funny, at least one comment is and maybe there might be another humourous phrase.

I have said, openly and frequently, that I am a great admirer of Mike's work and have taken inspiration from his results (read as "copied blatantly").  If only Mike could cope with wagons from Swindon then he might be dangerous.

regards, Graham

36 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 I think you can reasonably suppose that the wagon was supplied empty to any colliery at which output was exceeding the capacity of the colliery's own wagons on hand.

 

... this does depend on what your model is of ... where the choice of location would presumably restrict the number of collieries from which you would see traffic. 

The layout is a "what if"...  what if the GWR & MR agreed to enhance the facilities at the site of Norchard colliery and provide public platforms for the miners?  The MR wanted to build a low level platform whilst the GWR wanted to build a high level platform... so they compromised and did both with the result is that which you see today.  This means that we can run trip workings in and out of our colliery (aka Norchard) at the low level and service workings to collieries along the high level to Tufts Jcn and further north (eg. Princess Royal, Parkend, Lightmoor plus operators including Dean Forest, Phoenix, Leadbeter).  As our layout is south of Tufts and the bottom end of the Mineral Loop then we can have, legitimately, any PO wagons from the Edwardian era (on those days when Lightmoor was not exiting fulls via the Lightmoor Railway and Bilson yard).

The idea of D351 in a train of PO wagons does appeal.

regards, Graham

17 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

The other question is, of course, date. If the wagon carries its number on the plank below the M, the photo is definitely post-Great War, when such wagons were pooled, so no further discussion is need to explain its presence in the Forest of Dean. If pre-Great War, one has the simple fact that the Severn & Wye was a Midland & Great Western joint line, so at Lydney it is on home ground. Bullo Pill would be harder to explain, so I would take the Midland wagon as evidence that the location was Lydney!

Ah but.....

When Ian Pope says that he has no knowledge of any MR wagon being tipped at Lydney then I rather wish to see the image again so as to close the matter.  If the location is Lydney then I shall be pressing Ian as to which colliery or quarry was loading the wagon (because I have several end-door wagons from Slaters and I rather wish to use them on our FoD layout).

regards, Graham

On 14/06/2022 at 10:07, Compound2632 said:

 

I can't recall a photo of a D299 being side-tipped, closest I've got to D299 being tipped are these D351 wagons being end-tipped at Kings Lynn (can't end tip a D299 - no end door):

Stephen @Compound2632,

Thank you for pointing out the error of my ways for the photo of which I am thinking shows a MR wagon being tipped through an end door... so a photo of a D351 and we ought to appreciate those alongside the D299.  I am sure that the image is of a Midland wagon rather than a PO wagon because of the large "M" and "R" on the side sheeting.

The reason that I am asking is that I thought that the wagon was being tipped at Lydney whilst Ian Pope tells me that the location is Bullo Pill.  So the reason for asking is not D299 versus D351; the reason is the question "why would a MR wagon be tipped at a dock in the FoD?" and to resolve that question I wish to know "Lydney or Bullo".

Back to the original post - anyone able to help with either the original image or a link to that image?

regards, Graham

I appreciate a D299 - who does not appreciate a D299!

With so many admirers then this question ought to be an easy one...  I recall a photo of a D299 on a quay side tip dropping a load into a barge or similar.  Can I find that photo now?  No!

Who can either post a copy of the photo or supply a link to the image.

thank you, Graham

4 hours ago, Western Star said:

Jordan asked the question about baldy some weeks back on another railway forum and, as here, there were no correct answers...  not even any answers.  I asked Jordan about the question in a PM and J provided an answer to me.

 

So when the same photos and question popped up here I thought that I ought to respond in some form.

Oh dear, oh dear.  This is "really confused.com" trying to get the ducks in a line although I doubt that Jordan keeps ducks in his pond (maybe does not have a pond?).

The first time that I recall the photos that Jordan has posted was in a PM exchange between him and me... and I had to ask for the answer.  So no wonder that no one offered an answer, correct or otherwise, and no wonder that I thought that maybe someone ought to have responded to the question.  Clearly I am confused and need to get my insurance checked, worse I have confused Jordan!

We shall get back to reality sometime soon.

regards, Graham

1 hour ago, Talltim said:

I looked before I posted and I've just looked now and I can't see your question post. There's Jordan's original post, then his tumbleweed one and then one from Northroader where he mentions 'never mind the headlamp" Wierd

OK, confused of the forums speaking.

Jordan asked the question about baldy some weeks back on another railway forum and, as here, there were no correct answers...  not even any answers.  I asked Jordan about the question in a PM and J provided an answer to me.

So when the same photos and question popped up here I thought that I ought to respond in some form.

regards, Graham

This extract seems appropriate, us mere mortals being so small alongside their imposing form.

"The Cyclopes (singular: Cyclops) were gigantic, one-eyed beings with enormous strength.
Source: https://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/Creatures/Cyclopes/cyclopes.html"

Where did you read the quote about the foreman?

regards, Graham

3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

After you were the first to ask, you'd better not get it wrong!!! 🤣🤣

Seeing as I asked several weeks back, just what was the answer then?

Oh, I know!

One sees like Cyclops and the other is as blind as a bat.

16 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Normal F-Unit...

SOO 2228A, That's a clue....

You're not the first to ask, though ;)

Sir, Please Sir!

I know...   can I answer?  am I correct?

Graham

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Then I think we can discount Andy Brown's theory as bad chemistry?

Stephen and others,

I have known Andy Brown for at least 20 years, from the time when Bob Essery was gathering those of Midland / S7 persuasion to build the first incarnation of Dewsbury.  Andy worked for many years for BASF in the field of analytics (before that word was appropriated by the modern money-makers) and I believe that his occupation required honesty, accuracy and a thirst for knowledge - not the attributes of character to suggest spurious comments in a learned journal.

Whilst I cannot comment on the statement made by Andy in the early days of Midland Record I do think that the suggestion that he is wrong - or flying a kite - is unfortunate.  I shall try to speak with Andy about the matter.

regards, Graham

21 minutes ago, magmouse said:

 

The two wagons either side look like GWR 4-plank wagons, with the sides extended by a rather crudely added extra plank and associated ironwork.

The wagon to the left of the D299 is very likely to be ex-GWR seeing as there is a GWR wgon label holder to the left hand end of the solebar.

Congratulations to you and Yours....  and to the wagon as well.

regards, Graham

9 hours ago, queensquare said:

 

 

The origin of the mis-quotation ought to be acknowledged...  or at least committed to the weekly sermon in churches all along the relevant railway line.

23 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 it is not clear why supporters would get removed from earlier opens...

I recall reading in a standard GWR tome that the GWR started to remove sheet bars when other railway companies did not make reasonable contributions of wagons with bars to the "pool" of wagons - a date just after end of WW1 comes to mind.

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Pharaoh had nothing to compare with such a monumental landscape!

Stephen,

I am hoping that you can describe how the top row of barrels were added to the monument.

regards, Graham