Western Star

Nice to see that the topic title has been changed to reflect the successful outcome of the OP.

14 hours ago, brossard said:

I am still puzzled as to why these wagons need taking apart at all.  I can't think of a reason other than curiosity.

Think S7....

The conversion often requires removal of the wheels and sometimes removal of the wheels requires that a solebar is removed for access to the bearings.  Some of the Dapol wagons have been issued with the cast baseplate from the Lionheart mineral wagons and those baseplates have alternative holes for the break gear (used for Lionheart wagons assembled for S7)...  access to the top side of the baseplate is advantageous for moving the brake gear from the O-FS position to the S7 position.

regards, Graham

19 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

What could possibly go wrong?

Do you really want me to make a suggestion?  Just think about tiffin...  Kyber pass...  oh well, carry on then.

regards, Graham

Here is a photo circa 1964.

This photo is the copyright of Tim Mills / Brian Dale, publication of the photo at the web address given is by Brian Dale who reserves copyright.  The loco in the picture is a "Grange".

regards, Graham Beare

Exactoscale produced a grey ABS mounting plate to enable fitting of a Tortoise motor underneath a baseboard. The mounting plate was not scale specific and I think that these items are/were used by 4mm and 7mm scale modellers irrespective of track gauge.

The Scaleseven Stores does not hold stock of this item and I wish to obtain some stock.  Is anyone a member of the EMGS / S4 and can check the respective stores lists?

thank you, Graham (S7 modeller).

2 hours ago, airnimal said:

Having built this chassis without any idea on what wagon I am going to make I have decided to do a GWR van from this drawing. The W-irons are very similar design being just a few thou out and it will make a change for me because I don't have any GWR wagons at all.

A very nice choice - as far as I am aware the only trade7mm offering of this prototype was a resin kit from Meteor Models circa 2005 to 2010.  I suspect that the kit was not popular as the company offered the remaining stock to me - I bought all there was to buy.

When planning the sides/ends, be wary of the bottom two planks on the drawiing - I think that the "thin" plank was not a plank at all, rather the drawing shows the covered wagon after water run-off angles were fitted on the top edge of the bottom frame member.

regards, Graham

14 hours ago, Simond said:

I hear the S7 crowd bellow from the stands!

Pray tell us what you think is being said.

Mike, now I understand your earlier comment.

The simple answer is likely to be "ask David White" because for most of the last fifty years the prime source of 7mm wheels has been Slaters and the "standard" 7mm pin-point axle has been a constant throughout that time.

Just be careful what you wish for though...  there is a current 7mm RTR maunfacturer who has either three or four different axle lengths / diameters across their current range of wagons and that causes all sorts of problems when considering conversion to S7 standards.

regards, Graham

Mike, I do not understand what you are saying in your most recent post.  As I cannot recognise what you are poking it is not surprising that I may appear to be exhibiting apathy.

regards, Graham

22 minutes ago, airnimal said:

I am happy to report that [ ... ] the suspension works like silk.

Sounds like a happy convert...  well done.

Mike,

The photo above shows a bearing cradle with folded lugs at each end - those lugs are one of two options for attachment of Exactoscale brake hangers.

Do you have any packets of Exactoscale brake gear?  Each packet provides parts to build the brake gear with either hangers fixed to the baseplate or hangers fixed to the lugs in the above photo.  In the first option the brake blocks remain in a fixed position as the wheels move up/down.  In the second option the brake blocks move with the wheels.

My preference is to have the brake blocks fixed in hangers which are fixed to the floor...  so I can remove the wheels without disturbing the brake gear.

regards, Graham

7 hours ago, Simond said:

Don’t Slaters do….? No, sorry, wait, err…

... you’ll have to build a Slaters rectangular tank too, so you can show the difference.

Mike,

Just in case you decide to take Mike's suggestion, here is a link to a topic about a couple of Slater's tar tubs that Peter and I have built.  You may notice that I have used some techniques / methods that are familiar to you...  with due acknowledgement.  Near to the top of the thread is a photo of Peter's tar tub which was painted and weathered by Adrian Marks; Adrian wrote about his methods on RMWeb, here and are worth reading.

As to weathering, Rob ( @Rob Pulham ) has written here (or WT) about how he has weathered his tank wagon, worth lookiing at for the way in which Rob has treated the spillage from filling of the tank.  Rob, can you supply a link?

regards, Graham

Mike,

If it helps you, we can alter the drawing and re-run the etch cattle bars....  consistent result, no hassle, time for a cuppa....

regards, Graham

In the first photo, that drystone wall is worthy of a dribble or two.

The trackwork looks exemplary, particularly the treatment of the rail joints.

2 hours ago, airnimal said:

 I do have the photograph of this wagon in a Constructor some where in the loft but it would take forever to find it.

The photograph to which Mike refers was published in the Model Railway Constructor in 1986, Len Tavender based, probably, his drawing on that photo / MRC issue.  The same image can be found on the Staffordshire archive website, here .

If you access the link you can see how good is Mike's model when compared to the photo.

regards, Graham

1 hour ago, Dave Hunt said:

Mike, that looks very realistic to me and I would be more than happy with it.  ... to drill that number of holes whilst breaking only three drills is an achievement. I'd probably use a few dozen and fail to produce such a neat job.

I do not generally do "me too" posts...  this is a rare exception because the most recent post from Mike shows a very realistic appearance to the join between top and side.  I am waiting with anticipation to see the result.

regards, Graham

Mike,

I am not sure what you mean by "disguising" the join...  given the period when this tank body was built I expect that the top / sides were held together by rivets through inside angle iron (or similar) hence a join between top and side was visible with an appearance just like that shown in the last photo of your most recent post.

regards, Graham

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Did you meant to write "shaded red"?

 

I can clearly see shading to the principal lettering on both wagons, which suggests to me that if either is painted black, the white lettering is shaded red.

You are correct, I have amended my post above.

11 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

But I still think the simplest explanation is that both wagons are chocolate with white lettering shaded black.

Maybe you ought to take up the matter with Ian.

13 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Incidentally, staring at the Healing photo as reproduced in Ian's Gloucestershire book, I had noticed that there seems to be a 4-digit number incised into the end of each headstock. Now that I'm looking for it, I can see it on the G. Small wagon, though I can't tell if it's the same number. Now I'm seeing it on many other Gloucester wagons of the period. A part number for the headstock, perhaps?

Welcome to the slippery slope know as "The De Gloster Code"..  or the art of trying to make sense of what you see in Glos. photos (without the help of missing primary resource material).  In the case of characters cut into the end of a headstock, that detail can be found in many / most of the Glos. photos and the numbers do change.  What is not clear to Ian / I is whether the numbers are order numbers or wagon numbers or something else...  since we do not have photos of every wagon we cannot be sure how those numbers relate to the Glos. build plate (Glos. build numbers cover more than just wagons).  There are other codes which are painted occasionally on the solebar, often in the vicinity of a crown plate - current thinking is these codes appear only on second-hand wagons when re-sold by Glos..

regards, Graham

I do hope that this post is not seen as spoiling the party...  today I have spent about a half hour talking to Ian Pope on the subject of (a) the livery of Healing no.5 and (b) the possibility of errors in the livery / photo boards of Glos. photos.  Ian has advised me that he provided the Gloster official photos to the HMRS, Ian had access to the Gloster Photo Albums and copied the images.  I have received, from Ian, copies of the Healing photo and that of G. Small of Taunton.

Ian is of the opinion now that the Healing wagon no. 5 is black, written white, shaded red; that is, the wagon board in the photo of the Healing wagon no.5 is wrong.  Ian's change of opinion regarding the Healing wagon is based upon comparison of the colouring / tone of the wagon sheeting / solebar / washer plates / corner plates....  and with reference to the Glos. photo of G. Small of Taunton.

Our initial thought was that the wagon board for Healing no.5 was that from a photo taken earlier (that day or the previous day).  So the Healing photo is reference no. 2107 and we looked at photo reference no.2106...  no luck there as the wagon colour was neither chocolate nor black.  However, photo 2108 of G. Small is described as chocolate, written white, shaded black and our opinion is that the wagon board in photo 2107 and that in photo 2108 are identical (consider the markings in the background paint and what looks like chalk markings between the words, also the positioning of the letters in one row with the letters in the row underneath).

So, possible conclusions are:-

a/ both wagons are chocolate and the "board" is correct;

b/ one wagon is black and one wagon is chocolate, the board is wrong in one photo;

c/ both wagons are black and the board is wrong in both photos.

Ian's conclusion is that Healing is black, Small is chocolate and the board in the Healing photo is wrong.

regards, Graham

The "bigger" rivet in the middle of the top plate is to mark the centre of the piece so giving you a start when thinking about the filler.

What wagon diagrams go with the LNWR plates?

best wishes, Graham

On 09/07/2021 at 11:43, Compound2632 said:

S7 working vacuum brakes, anyone?

Just as soon as you show us how to produce working Harrison cord braking in P4......

2 hours ago, airnimal said:

Can we ever win?

Not often, and then only on unstated conditions.

At the beginning of the 1900s Swindon was using Mansell wheels for the last of the Dean carriages and the beginning of Churchward coaching stock.  By reference to GW Coach Books by JH Russell (pub OPC) I think that, at the end of the Edwardian era, new carriages were being built with steel disc wheels whilst Mansell wheels were used for coaches undergoing maintenance and repair.  When did Swindon commence use of steel disc wheels?

Coach wheels in the BR period often had small diameter (say 2") wheels in the disc, mostly four holes per wheel although I think that some wheelsets might have had just two holes.  Did Swindon include such holes in disc wheels which were manufactured in the GWR period?  From what date? Two or four holes per wheel?

Hopefully Pete Speller @k14 may have something to say on these questions.

thank you, Graham

On 02/07/2021 at 16:14, F-UnitMad said:

Life, the Universe & Everything seems to have got in the way...

Seems to me that you have been thinking about the Life and Times of Arthur Dent and trying to come to terms with the lack of railway interest in any of the books about his experiences.