dggar

Quote:- “ job that needed to be done was to add the off-scene trailing turnout on the down fast to allow access to the shed area from the NW, via the single line next to the Pembroke Castle pub. I assume that this move was necessary for a banking engine that had to give assistance for longer than usual beyond the top of Camden Bank. I imagine that this was more likely to be the up train engine banking ecs which was under the charge of a less powerful loco, often a Std 4mt or a 2-6-4 tank of various types. But all that could be wrong. “ I have a schematic diagram of the layout controlled by Camden 2 signal box. Together with Photos from the book Great British Railway Stations EUSTON of the area just beyond the road bridge towards the tunnel portals the trailing turn out would appear to allow access to Engine Line 1 and Engine Line 2. This would then give access to the Down and Up Goods lines. The bottom picture showing the 4F on an ECS movement should be labelled as on the Down Slow (not the Up Slow) . The Caprotti 4-6-0 44749 could have come off shed to back down to Camden Goods depot. Very interesting to see the off scene layout beyond the road bridge.

Recent You Tube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCskWjZ6Niw "Favorite LMS Coronation locomotives" (That is how it is spelt in the caption) Pictures at 0.07 , 0.12 and 0.59 at Camden. at 0.26 Euston platform 2 and at 1.09 what i think is 46236 arriving at Paddington during the Loco exchange trials shortley after nationalisation,

This is looking really good.

I'm glad to see this thread is still active, I trust everyone is well.

Some more details about these out-takes can be read here:- https://railwaymoviedatabase.com/train-of-events/ I found this sentence particularly interesting:- " Indeed, all this footage has since been collected together and released by Video 125 in their Steam on 35mm DVD."

Just come across some out-takes from TRAIN OF EVENTS. No 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk8b9EyG6Cg&t=35s No 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EM8n-j4FPc&t=15s

You may be able to get a digital download.

I’ve come across this YouTube which shows departures from Euston in 1939 and early fifties. (The new Euston signal box commissioned in 1952 is shown) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRytH3vAzh0 the first 50 seconds show a Blue 6229. I assume this must be 6220 with a swapped identity (The red 6229 went to the USA in 1939 in the guise of 6220) There then follows the departure of The Royal Scott showing it’s progress to beyond Primrose Hill tunnels. At 1min 58sec you see the signaller in the Euston box press a button marked Bank Engine. (As I know very little about signal engineering I’m not sure whether this just notifies the signaller in Camden No 1 box that the train is being banked or whether something more sophisticated is going on.) At 2min 56sec the banking engine drops off very near to where Camden No 1 box stands. The Down Empty Carriage line and Up Engine line are shown to the right.

Just come across this you-tube of Willesden shed after the closure of Camden shed. has a nice shot of City of London moving in the shed yard.

Another video similar to the one above. Camden features for the first 30 seconds or so.

I've just come across this YouTube of Wilesden & Camden sheds Shots of Camden only appear inthe last 50 seconds or so but I think it's worth a viewing.

I’ve come across this you-tube video from 2014, which may be of interest. The relevant bits are from 1 min 50 sec up to 4 min 55 sec. It follows the path of the old Down Empty Carriage Line. ( I believe is now known as Line X) under the original 4 main lines. At 2 min.33 sec on the right are the remains of the old Signal box from 1953. From here it dives under the main lines to emerge on the western side. It then enters the tunnel under Parkway. After exiting the tunnel (3 min.35 sec) you can see the position of the exit of the route of the Up Empty Carriage line (Rat ‘ole) on the left. There is now a big metal structure on the old track bed. After passing the site of the old MPD the Regent Park Road bridge is at 4 min 22sec. and Primrose Hill Tunnel at 4 min 50 sec. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CN8ntbsdNI

Yes, I've been through there a couple of times,(about 59 yrs ago)

I wonder if these 2 photos may be of help. The caption for the Bewdley picture is:- Bewdley water towers, ex-LNWR (left) and ex-GWR (right)

Here are 2 photos from 1953. The first from the Euston book and the 2nd taken by Dick Blenkinsop. In the fore ground of the 2nd you can see the top of a water tank. The water tank appears to be in the yard of the Up Carriage shed. The caption for this states that the train on the down fast is hauled by 45721 Impregnable and the train with the rebuilt Scot on backing out line 4 is the stock for the Down Irish mail. I always thought that a station pilot hauled the stock into the platforms and the train loco backed down later. If you compare the water tank in the 1st photo with the shot I posted earlier( 14th May) of 46200 being piloted by a black 5 (taken in 1957/58) there seems to me an extra fitting on the top of the water tank.

In my post of 13th May showing the cover of the book "Euston to Harrow & Wealdstone" the water tower can be seen. Are you able to compare it to water towers about which you have more detailed information?

To make up for my appalling gaff here is a shot of 46234 in almost the same place waiting to cross over into the shed, the ECS for it's train is just pulling away. I've also found a link for shots of the interior of the Rat 'ole. https://www.bcd-urbex.com/camden-rat-hole-london-underground-tunnel/

Yes you are completely correct. I hadn't noticed Camden No1 box by the foot bridge and assumed the loco was north of the footbridge. My apologies.

And finally a couple of shots at the top of the bank. 46205 about to set off down to Euston and the LMS diesels on "The Royal Scot" (LNER4479 has pointed out that 46205 is returning from Euston not setting back down to Euston, sorry about the error)

Here are a couple of shots of where the Up empty carriage line joins the Up engine line followed by a wonderful shot of an ECS movement on the down carriage line.

While this is outside of the scenic part of your project I thought some pictures along Camden bank might be useful to show the ECS paths:- Towards the end of 1952 a new power signal box came into use. This replaced Euston boxes 1,2 &3. Euston box 4 was renamed carriage siding box. The first two shots show the new box. immediately in front of the box there is an electrified line leading to the Up carriage shed. The pilot engines are on the end of Engine line 2 next to the Down empty carriage line. Next to the Down Fast line is Engine Line 1,occupied by a rake of carriages. on Backing Out road 2 there is what looks to me like a Black 5. the second shot shows the Black 5 with the rake on Engine line 1, probably about to set off for the departure platforms. The third shot is from about 1907 and shows the divergence of The Up engine line into Engine Line 1 and Engine Line 2. Line 2 is next to the Down Empty carriage line. The fourth shot is looking in the opposite direction and shows the box formally known as Euston No 4,

Iain, I was re reading this thread and noticed that you said you were unsure about ECS workings((14-9-2019). I hope this may help. The Euston book that I have has this to say about ECS workings:- “The Down Carriage Shed stabled main line express stock. The early morning group of trains to the north (except Scotland) and the Up evening group of such trains were dealt with here instead of at Willesden, one of the reasons being to avoid line occupation between Euston and Willesden during the morning and evening group of main line and residential trains…” It had eleven roads most of which could hold rakes of more than 12 coaches. To the immediate East of the Down Carriage Shed there were the 4 Backing Out Roads. Connection to and from all platforms was possible. ECS movements from Willesden to Euston were via the Up Slow as far as Camden No 2 signal box. At this point it diverged on to what was called the Up Empty Carriage Line This burrowed beneath the main lines opposite Camden MPD and emerged on the West side of the tracks to merge with the Up Engine Line just before the short tunnel (carrying the road Parkway) half way down Camden Bank. The Up Empty Carriage Line was known as the “Rat ’ole” The Up Engine Line diverged to become Up Engine Line 1 and Up Engine Line 2. Up Engine Line 1 linked to the Backing Out Roads and ran next to them. ECS from Willesden would wait on the Backing Out Roads before moving into one of the departure platforms. ECS from the Down Carriage Shed would also wait here. Engines coming off shed used the Up Engine Line to go via Line 1 to back on to trains for the main line departure Platforms (12 to 15) or via Line 2 for lower number platforms. ECS from the arrivals platforms (1,2 ,3 mainly but sometimes 6) would leave via the Down Carriage Line. This line and Up Engine Line 2 burrowed under the main lines to reach the East side of the station. ECS could go to either the Down Carriage Shed, or to Willesden, via the Down Carriage Line, crossing to the Down Slow just before Camden shed. (ECS could sometimes use the Down Slow from the bottom of the bank.) Engines would usually travel to Camden MPD along the Down Carriage Line. It was possible for ECS from Willesden to travel along the Up Slow and cross the two Down main lines to the Backing Out Roads, but this would only happen if there were problems on the Up Empty Carriage Line. The Up Carriage Shed could store D C electrics as well as suburban trains. Here is a schematic diagram of the lines between Primrose Hill tunnels and Euston. The Up ECS route is shown in Red and the Down route in Blue.

Iain If you do plan to model 46200 here are a couple of pictures from the Euston book which may be of interest.

Here are the final two pictures:-

Here is another picture from the out takes video showing the Euston end of the NE wall. I have these two books which you may have come across. The first image from the Midland Main Lines book shows the flat roof being installed in 1934. The caption text 42 & 43 refer to the next images which show some detail of The NE wall at the turntable end. The final image from the Euston book is from 1964, with the roof having been removed and showing the internal aspect of the NE wall