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JN

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Posts posted by JN

    Layout design struggles

    in Layout & Track Design

    Posted

    7 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

    Hello Jonny and welcome to the forum.

     

    Do you have access all round you proposed layout, or at least to three sides. You did mention operating from a hole but the baseboards are in that zone where reaching across is tricky but they arent quite large enough to work with a hole cut out. Obviously we don't know what space you have available, so the more information you can give us the better.

    Thanks for that. The space is 12x6, so I’m planning on using 6 (three on one side and three on the other side) 4x2 baseboards along the sides and 2 2x2 baseboards at each end. I decided on the baseboard dimensions for a variety of reasons - space being the leading consideration (a bit like the 'buy the best you can afford' maxim 'build the biggest layout you can').

     

    Regards,

    Jonny

    Layout design struggles

    in Layout & Track Design

    Posted

    20 hours ago, sjp23480 said:

    Hi Jonny,

     

    I am not sure how much space you have but you are working in OO gauge.

     

    Have you considered building the layout on two levels? 

     

    Upper level: running around the room (per your plan) to include a station and some modest storage space for passenger and express freight services.  This could include the OHLE you specified. 

     

    Lower level: the location for the depot/industrial sidings/port?  I would not to include the OHLE on the lower level - this would be unusual in this setting.  This would introduce some operational interest (shunting/marshalling) while the passenger services chased their tails on the top level.

     

    Junction: it would be a squeeze, but you may be able to include a small junction to run a single line down to the lower level.  If there isn't room, the two levels do not need to be connected.  The upper level can be roundy roundy and the lower level can be end to end shunting space.

     

    I hope this helps.

    Steve

    Thanks for that, Steve. A helix is worth considering. I’ve seen plenty of layouts with them. I’ve subscribed to Chadwick on YouTube, so I can pull up his helix construction video when required.

     

    Yes, OO is the gauge I will use - its what I already have. The space is 12x6, so I’m planning on using 6 4x2 baseboards along the sides and 2 2x2 baseboards at each end.

     

    Anyway, what’s the Thomas Gray poem you’ve quoted in your signature? I like poetry too.

     

    Regards,

    Jonny

    Layout design struggles

    in Layout & Track Design

    Posted

    Right, so here’s my problem - I’m struggling with my layout design. I’m happy with the idea of a tail chaser, but I’m struggling to fit in a junction for my industry/port siding(s).

     

    I’d like to keep the design as simple as possible then wiring can be as simple as possible. My problem too, with layout design, is that it’s difficult for me to visualise the layout on boards where there might be a little more give and that with my Autism (when using RailModdler Express I was struggling to even visualise the hole in the layout from which I’d operate the layout from) I like to generate symmetry. I also think there is a lack of confidence on my part because with a symmetrical layout, I just double and rotate everything. Whereas with junctions etc I then have to start thinking in terms of what else do I need? That got overwhelming for me with my wagon kit purchase (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/165188-cambrian-steel-wagon-kits/), so I don’t know what its going to be like with the layout… One problem I’ve always had the problem where I take first initial steps and then my thoughts snowball and crash when the thoughts get too much. I sort of decided that posting on here might help me slow down a little and make it easier to take it ‘one step at a time’.

     

    I know it doesn’t really affect the design, per se, but I'm intending to set the layout in the latter end of the sectorisation era of c1990 to c1994. I like coal and steel trains too.

     

    Some features I’d like:

    Depot (my deceased uncle Tony was a fireman at Stockport Edgeley)

    Industry/port siding(s)

    Station (I have a few locomotives I inherited from my uncle that I’d like to run as railtours along side service freight and passenger trains)

     

    Things I’m not fussed about:

    Fidldle yard (its purely a home layout - although, I recognise it could be ‘included’ as a marshalling yard like Alexandra Docks, Tees or Tynsely)

    OHLE

     

    I won’t get everything, but finding something that works is preferable to an unachievable ideal.

     

    Regards,

    Jonny

    Screenshot 2021-06-07 at 19.06.12.png

    Catford - PHOTOS RESTORED

    in Layout topics

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Rich Papper said:

     

    Thank you. It's a bit of a glorified train set, but it keeps me and the small people happy.

    Rich

    My general layout design (hard to explain in much more detail than that as I don't want to turn your layout thread in to 'my layout problems' thread) is an oval too, but I'd like to fit in somehow an industry/port siding(s). I did try using your idea, but the redesign didn't work out...

    Cambrian steel wagon kits

    in Kitbuilding & Scratchbuilding

    Posted

    11 hours ago, Sofisticat said:

    Railtec make the transfers that you will ned for the Cabrian BBAs:
    https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=4505

    If you are planning on painting them in the Railfreight livery of the 80's then I have heard that Halfords make a Ford Carnival Red which is very good colour match. Not tried it personally as I live too far south of the equator to get my hands on any. I am interested to see how you get on with the builds as I am thinking of getting a batch of BAAs due to the crazy prices that Bachmann are asking for the next release of these wagons.

    Thanks for that, Sofisticat, but I'm reluctant to use spray paint because of my mentioned living arrangements. However, its good to say - other people might looking for advice might find this thread helpful.

    ALCAN traffic from Fort William

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    Posted

    On 08/02/2010 at 14:25, Andy LMRG said:

    As a Group we are modelling the highlands of Scotland - with considerable licence in that for example Fort William is rather closer to Glasgow than it should be! Nonetheless we are interested in what wagons Alcan used for their Aluminium production in the 60s & 70s. We've found one photo on w4 FORT WILLIAM to MALLAIG

    Ernies Scottish Railway Archive @ fotopic.net but are unsure of the date but looks a bit modern. And as a matter of interest what do they use today? We are assuming we will have to modify a RTR model and if anyone has any suggestions on which to base it on we'd be most grateful.

    https://www.burntisland.net/photos/Old photos/Law2 - BA factory and train 1966.htm is the only photo from the 1960s (https://scottishrtt.livejournal.com/18013.html shows some passenger workings on the West Highland Line if you were wanting some information about the line). I found a lot of post-privitsation images of Class 66s hauling Alcan PCAs on Fort William to Blyth turns (as well the photos posted in this thread).

     

    Just a note, too, don't worry too much about the location - the sites (Corpach, Kinlochleven and Lochaber) were chosen in the 1890s for cheap hydroelectric power that the Highlands offered rather than access to raw materials. The climate would have also had an impact on the decision - I believe that Fort William is the wettest UK weather station - hardly surprising given its location (a mountainous area by the coast below the jet stream). Kind of surprising, though, for factories to be so footloose (not tied to raw materials) back then. I also know there's a range of hills much closer to Glasgow between Ben Lomand and the outskirts of Milngaive - the name escapes me, but its on the usual first day of the West Highland Way (I know its not the Trossachs as they're on the opposite side of Loch Lomand to Ben Lomand). 

    Reversing Beeching ???

    in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Hobby said:

    It's a section of the forum for non railway related discussions which this seems to drifted into... 

    The question posed by the article, in my view, is 'To what extent was Brexit caused by the Beeching report?' This means I would have to consider other possible motivations. Typing helps me to 'think out loud' - I didn't think we were talking about whether or not Brexit, Beeching or the EU are a good ideas (even if we were, 'good' would be tied to a preferred outcome), but the extent to which railway cuts were a (or the, if there is a single) motivation for Brexit. If railway cuts are a reason then it would feed in to the 'ignored/left behind' argument which, according to Goodwin, seems to be more influenced by a view of Governments since 1964 rather than specifically about the railways. I accept we could tie the view of government to Beeching, but then we're debating causation and correlation. I've also mentioned the lack of support for Longbridge in 2000, the support for banks in 2008/9 and the lack of support for the Port Talbot steelworks in 2016 as specific examples. I can't remember any other examples, but that's not to say there aren't other examples.

    • Like 1

    Swinton and Knottingley Joint RailwaY early 1960s

    in Modelling real locations

    East Midlands freight operations in the late 80's

    in UK Prototype Questions

    Posted

    9 hours ago, lather said:

     

    The East Midlands used to have a fair bit of heavy industry - after all, it IS where the Industrial Revolution began. (And before you say "wasn't that Ironbridge?", I used to work as a historian and guide at Cromford Mill, where it all started...) Unfortunately, a lot of it has now been consigned to history. 

     

    Derby used to have a lot of heavy industry, especially focused around the Stores Road/Alfreton Road/Mansfield Road area, which was convenient for St Mary's Goods Yard, and at least one of those factories used to have their own rail connection. There was also the old British Celanese works (later Courtaulds) at Spondon - maybe not "heavy industry" but an important rail-connected works that received both chemicals and coal for the on-site power station by rail. And, of course, you could class both Derby Loco and carriage and Wagon as rail-connected heavy industries. As for the other well-known Derby-based heavy industry, Rolls-Royce, the only link with rail use that I'm aware of (apart from the regular fuel tanks to Sinfin) is that they occasionally used rail to ship new submarine nuclear reactors from St Mary's to the dockyards - originally using a modified LMS transformer wagon, then a specially-built MOD-registered wagon. However, that traffic went over to road many years ago.

     

    As for the other main industrial centres in Derbyshire, there were several heavy industries in and around Chesterfield, some of which were rail-connected - such as Sheepbridge works. Around Clay Cross you had other rail-connected works such as the Avenue coking and chemical works. Further south, you had the Butterley Company at Ripley, who had a rail connection through to the Midland Railway Centre at Swanwick Junction (providing access to the Erewash Valley line) that was still used for outgoing special traffic until at least August 1987.

     

    The other main industrial centre in Derbyshire was Belper, on the MML around 8 miles north of Derby. That had a lot of cotton mills and textile factories, plus the Thornton's and Deb factories, several small family-owned iron foundries and a major oil refinery/lubricant producer (Dalton's, better known to most as Silkolene). However, as far as I know (having grown up there), none of them really used rail as the town just had a normal goods yard.

     

    North of Belper, at Ambergate, you also had Johnson's wireworks, which had their own siding on the Ambergate to Peak Forest line - but that went out of use long before the line was turned into the Matlock Branch.

     

    South of Ripley, on the former Ripley branch line, you had Denby Disposal Point, which sent regular MGR trains out to (IIRC) Drakelow power station. And, on the same line, Denby Pottery used to send the occasional shipment out by rail, but I think that ended back in the days of steam.

     

    Around both the Wirksworth and Buxton areas, the main industries were quarrying, with both quarries and lime works around Buxton still using rail - the Wirksworth-area quarries have either closed down or gone over to using road. There's also the old APCM cement works at Hope, which both sends cement out and receives coal in.

     

    At the village of Friden, there's a large specialist refractory brick manufacturer who used to use the adjacent C&HPR line until it was shut down in the 1960s. The factory is still active, but now ships out via road. And the same goes for other companies, such as Longcliffe, who are still active along the old C&HPR route.

     

    To the east of the MML, you had lots of deep pit coal mines, plus some open-cast workings, including sites such as West Hallam, Arkwright, Bolsover, Markham, Whitwell, Oxcroft and Renishaw Park.

     

    One that often gets forgotten is the old Firth Rixon works at Darley Dale, on the far side of the Ambergate to Peak Forest line from Rowsley shed. This was created in about 1942 as a shadow factory making specialist forgings, and is still going today under another name (which seems to change every couple of years!) - although their use of rail ended many years ago.

     

    And, of course, we mustn't forget the Stanton and Staveley ironworks, plus the old Coalite works at Bolsover.

    Oh, you can add petrochemicals in to Teeside/Tyneside too...

    East Midlands freight operations in the late 80's

    in UK Prototype Questions

    Posted

    8 hours ago, lather said:

     

    The East Midlands used to have a fair bit of heavy industry - after all, it IS where the Industrial Revolution began. (And before you say "wasn't that Ironbridge?", I used to work as a historian and guide at Cromford Mill, where it all started...) Unfortunately, a lot of it has now been consigned to history. 

     

    Derby used to have a lot of heavy industry, especially focused around the Stores Road/Alfreton Road/Mansfield Road area, which was convenient for St Mary's Goods Yard, and at least one of those factories used to have their own rail connection. There was also the old British Celanese works (later Courtaulds) at Spondon - maybe not "heavy industry" but an important rail-connected works that received both chemicals and coal for the on-site power station by rail. And, of course, you could class both Derby Loco and carriage and Wagon as rail-connected heavy industries. As for the other well-known Derby-based heavy industry, Rolls-Royce, the only link with rail use that I'm aware of (apart from the regular fuel tanks to Sinfin) is that they occasionally used rail to ship new submarine nuclear reactors from St Mary's to the dockyards - originally using a modified LMS transformer wagon, then a specially-built MOD-registered wagon. However, that traffic went over to road many years ago.

     

    As for the other main industrial centres in Derbyshire, there were several heavy industries in and around Chesterfield, some of which were rail-connected - such as Sheepbridge works. Around Clay Cross you had other rail-connected works such as the Avenue coking and chemical works. Further south, you had the Butterley Company at Ripley, who had a rail connection through to the Midland Railway Centre at Swanwick Junction (providing access to the Erewash Valley line) that was still used for outgoing special traffic until at least August 1987.

     

    The other main industrial centre in Derbyshire was Belper, on the MML around 8 miles north of Derby. That had a lot of cotton mills and textile factories, plus the Thornton's and Deb factories, several small family-owned iron foundries and a major oil refinery/lubricant producer (Dalton's, better known to most as Silkolene). However, as far as I know (having grown up there), none of them really used rail as the town just had a normal goods yard.

     

    North of Belper, at Ambergate, you also had Johnson's wireworks, which had their own siding on the Ambergate to Peak Forest line - but that went out of use long before the line was turned into the Matlock Branch.

     

    South of Ripley, on the former Ripley branch line, you had Denby Disposal Point, which sent regular MGR trains out to (IIRC) Drakelow power station. And, on the same line, Denby Pottery used to send the occasional shipment out by rail, but I think that ended back in the days of steam.

     

    Around both the Wirksworth and Buxton areas, the main industries were quarrying, with both quarries and lime works around Buxton still using rail - the Wirksworth-area quarries have either closed down or gone over to using road. There's also the old APCM cement works at Hope, which both sends cement out and receives coal in.

     

    At the village of Friden, there's a large specialist refractory brick manufacturer who used to use the adjacent C&HPR line until it was shut down in the 1960s. The factory is still active, but now ships out via road. And the same goes for other companies, such as Longcliffe, who are still active along the old C&HPR route.

     

    To the east of the MML, you had lots of deep pit coal mines, plus some open-cast workings, including sites such as West Hallam, Arkwright, Bolsover, Markham, Whitwell, Oxcroft and Renishaw Park.

     

    One that often gets forgotten is the old Firth Rixon works at Darley Dale, on the far side of the Ambergate to Peak Forest line from Rowsley shed. This was created in about 1942 as a shadow factory making specialist forgings, and is still going today under another name (which seems to change every couple of years!) - although their use of rail ended many years ago.

     

    And, of course, we mustn't forget the Stanton and Staveley ironworks, plus the old Coalite works at Bolsover.

    It's always interesting to talk about history. Some people say Ironbridge and some people say Cromford and some people say Manchester. I have a Master's degree in history, so I'm aware there is dispute about the industrial revolution - Gerschenkron even argues that the industrial revolution wasn't a revolution. I agree. This was first year Economic History, something we had to do to  do single honours History. There are lots of disputes in history I could talk about - like that between legal and political history of when the reign of Charles II began. I'm also aware of Cromford Mills, a UNESCO world heritage site. Anyway, this isn't the place to debate/discuss history.

     

    I didn't say there was no heavy industry I just said 'not like Strathclyde, Teeside and Tyneside, South Wales and South/West Yorkshire'. Both Strathclyde and Teeside/Tyneside had coal mining, multiple steelworks and shipbuilding. Like with most industry in the UK, for better or worse, it has gone. Textiles is something I'd put in the 'light industry' category if we're going to categorise industry in to heavy and light. I should also point out that I mostly visited the East Midlands in its post-industrial form, but I would still see row upon row of modern coal hoppers (I can never remember the TOPS code for the EWS 102-tonne bogie hoppers) in Toton and when I went to London via the Midland Mainline I remember seeing scores of HAAs.

     

    @John-Miles seems to think I(?) made Derbyshire out to be some 'rural backwater' when I hadn't, not that there is anything wrong with a rural area. I certainly never said that and I didn't think I'd implied it. Maybe he thinks I did or maybe I think he thinks I did. If I did, well, I apologise, but that really wasn't my intention. Actually, I won't apologise for something I don't think. I don't see why I should apologise, either, for someone else's interpretation.

    Swinton and Knottingley Joint RailwaY early 1960s

    in Modelling real locations

    Posted

    On 01/02/2019 at 20:33, dube said:

    Looking for info on early diesel types for a layout based north of knottingley around ferrybridge power station already done some research but can’t find much info on diesels seen here in the early 1960s

    After a quick look through Google Images (using the thread title as the search term) I was only able to find the following (I don't know what you've found, but in case you didn't see these):

    https://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/Midland/Swinton.html

    Wath Road Junstion 45040 Southbound freight

     

    I'm just off to the pub, so I can watch the football. I'll have a look later/tomorrow (I only used Google Images, so I could immediately find diesels hopefully in the early 1960s). I know, the Flickr photo is from 1980, but like I say, its all I could find too. Perhaps the description will give some more precise search term ideas, for example: 'Wath Road Junction 1961'.

     

    I would have thought, though, on a secondary line like this they'd still be using steam locomotives in the early 1960s. I know Rose Grove is a different area, but that was open until the very end of steam in 1968. Anyway, as I say, I'll have look at least tomorrow if not before on the 'web' search tab - I'm interested in West Yorkshire, so its not a problem.

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