jonny777

Well, looking at my spotting notes from the two weeks that I was down there while my parents were on holiday in Paignton, I saw D852 half a dozen times and every time was at Newton Abbot - not anywhere else. This suggests it was indeed parked somewhere on the depot. The other times it may have been obscured by locos in front of it as I passed by on the train, or I just became fed up with writing it down every day.

Were you on Exeter station during that month, Peter?

My research was much assisted by a few snippets of Warship workings sent to me many years ago by Martin Street when I was trying to discover what event had caused the chaos at Newton Abbot on that day. I was only travelling from Paignton to Exeter, but from the working details of the locos I saw at that station during the 40-odd minutes we were stopped there, showed that up services were running well over an hour late. I never did discover the cause, but credit must go to Martin and Mark Alden for the original info.

That's a shame, because (and this is a long, long shot) I have just found that D856 did work 1V72 the 0733 Liverpool to Paignton forward from Temple Meads on Saturday 23rd August 1969. It then worked the empty stock to NA and was stabled on the depot. Edited; to say, furthermore - D807 worked 1V68 from Bristol that day, which was the 0830 Nottingham to Paignton, so would most likely have been at NA as well later in the day. D845 is unlikely (if this madness is correct) because it worked the 1135 Kingswear to Paddington throughout, so probably spent the night at Old Oak Common. D852 was in store at NA at that time.

I will second those comments by Chris. I could spend all day watching the Gainsborough model, and then go back the next day to see it all over again. I haven't been for a few years, so thanks for the photos - which will increase my compulsion to pay another visit.

This one might do the trick? http://www.taillampphotography.com/Graphics%20Used%20For%20Website/AA%20DIESEL%20COLLECTION/CLASS_42/MKLRaWR00102UK.jpg

I found a b/w photo of it. https://www.flickr.com/photos/46212770@N08/4717236166/

And the number of the blue one in front of it appears to end in a '7'. Which rules out D817 maroon, D827 blue but with serif D & numerals, D847 had BR symbol above the nameplate, D867 maroon.

I don't think it can be a 42 as most were either blue or maroon at that time. D824 appears to be in works from which it emerged in blue. D810 had a full yellow end, and D800 was withdrawn/stored outside on the Laira scrap line IIRC.

Interesting. I was probably working on 4/10/76, but on the next day I travelled from Slough to Paddington for a day on the station and the situation was even worse. I only saw 3 all day. D1009, D1048, and D1054 (which seemed to be active almost every day I went out). I also saw 8 HSTs including the prototype, but I did see a Tyseley DMU set at Paddington which was not a common sight - M50812 M51112 M56267, which presumably had been purloined by RG to stand in for one of their failures. My last working loco was not quite as late as yours, but was D1023 on 29th November 76 at Reading on a very cold evening, for which I was only kept warm by the large amount of alcohol I consumed whilst on the station. I can tell by the writing in my notebook that my overall co-ordination was beginning to decline towards the end, but I had already seen three 37s and a 73, so when Western Fusilier turned up I was well happy.

You did well to see 15 in a day during 1976, Phil. I wish I had been there. I spent the afternoon on Plymouth station in March 76 and only saw 6. Plus a couple of 3 hour stints at Taplow in May 76 only produced 8, and that included seeing D1054 twice.

Yes, I am the same. I limit what I put out and when. I manufacture my own non-seed mix from various items that I buy in bulk, such as dried mealworms, suet pellets, sultanas and various nuts which have been partly blitzed in a small electric kitchen device. This has no seeds to put off the collared doves and wood pigeons which would take control of the feeding station from dawn to dusk otherwise. However, I find that if I fill the container up with that mix every day, the birds do not eat the fat balls or other delicacies they have on offer, so I leave it empty for a couple of days every so often and then, faced with fat balls or starvation they seem to prefer the former. I suppose it is just like everything else, give them a regular treat and they will not go back to eating the mundane stuff.

That narrows it down to about half a dozen, mainly 43s that did not have FYE by then.

Ah yes, got it now - thanks. Well spotted.

In a word.... No. Is it about half a mile away somewhere in the yard and surrounded by mineral wagons?

Thanks. I was racking my brains trying to figure out what junction that was, and I think I have only ever seen photos from the platform ends; but now this angle has been pointed out I see exactly what you mean. Lateral thinking was never my strong point.

Oh yeah. Silly me. Another senior moment I'm afraid. I saw that one and thought "Deltic and Cromptons, Devon and Cornwall, it definitely will not be that one" so didn't even bother looking. Thanks, at least I have a date now.

This photo irritates me; not because it shows two class 40s, but because there is a small headboard on the front of 40083 (the leading loco) with RPPR on the front. It is obviously a railtour, and the slide mount gives a date of Dec 1977, but having looked on Six Bells Junction, I can't find it. Therefore I don't know the precise date, or the location.

I couldn't resist this, so I dug out my notes and added up my sightings (no scrap line locos, although a few may have been stored at NA depot when I was there in 1969). The Warship I saw the most was D821 which I saw 9 times, followed by D805, D809 and D818 which were 8 times each. What left me rather open-mouthed was that on Bank Holiday Saturday August 1969, during an eight hour spell on Exeter St Davids, I saw 36 Westerns, virtually half the class.

Thanks for that info. The WTT I have is valid 6th March 1967 to 5th May 1968. I'm assuming that the photo was not taken during the summer period (mainly because as that ended on the 1st, I have a 30 to 1 chance of being right ). However the swapping of portions may have occurred at Doncaster during the non-summer period, although there is nothing in my WTT to suggest it; but 1E79 spends 19 minutes in the station from 1504 to 1523 while 1A27 arrives at 1512 and leaves at 1518. I have the April 66 to March 67 WTT as well and that is the same, with an out of season 1200 Newcastle to Lincoln, extended to Colchester 20 June to 2 Sep. The timings of this and the 1300 from Newcastle are the same at Doncaster, but the headcodes are 1E46 and 1A39 respectively.

I'm afraid that is not strictly correct for most of the 1960s, which is the point I was trying to get across earlier in the thread. While most inter-regional trains did conform with the standard letter codes, all *class 1 long distance passenger trains whose journey was confined entirely to the ECML* were exceptions. The text between the (my) asterisks is the important consideration here. The ECML in this instance refers to the main line from Kings Cross through Newcastle and Edinburgh, and even up to Aberdeen. While strictly speaking these long distance trains were inter-regional in that they may have passed through the Eastern, NorthEastern and/or Scottish Regions, if their journey was wholly confined to the ECML they were not treated as such, and all carried an 'A' headcode irrespective of direction. The only difference between up and down services was that up had odd numbers, and down had even. For instance the 1000 KX to Edinburgh was 1A16 and the 1000 Edinburg to KX was 1A23 (both Flying Scotsman services) Similarly the first train to Newcastle from Kings Cross, the 0005 departure was 1A00, the 0100 was 1A02, and the 0755 was 1A06.... and so on. While the 0725 from Newcastle to Kings Cross was 1A03, the 0755 was 1A05, and the 0740 from Sunderland was 1A09... etc. Even the Edinburgh and Aberdeen sleepers were included in this category, with the 2215 to Aberdeen being 1A70, and the 2230 to Edinburgh 1A72. In the up direction, the 2200 ex-Edinburgh was 1A69, and the 1915 from Aberdeen was 1A73. The Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier (more precisely the 0749 Caledonian Rd to Perth in 1967) also obeyed the convention, being 1A10. The corresponding up service you would expect to be an odd number, and indeed it was - 1A67 being the 2030 Perth to Caledonian Road. In those days, the letter 'N' was correctly used for down trains to Yorkshire; either Leeds, Bradford, Harrogate and Hull, because these did not have their *entire* route on the ECML, and similarly the 'E' for the up trains. I have never actually discovered the reason for this departure from the normal inter-regional coding, but I suspect it may have assisted the operators at important stations such as Doncaster and York, who were faced with far more cross country services which were also inter-regional, to easily identify the ones running to London in busy times, and it would also give an easier guide to Haymarket and Gateshead as to which services could be headed by Deltics. But that is mere conjecture on my part. I'm sure the real reason for this policy is buried deep in a Modern Railways from some time in the mid-60s but I have never thought to search for it, so if anyone can give any extra info, I would be grateful. One thing you can guarantee, is that if you saw a down service with a 'N' headcode on the ECML south of Doncaster, it would not be destined for Newcastle, whereas if you saw one north of Doncaster, it most likely would be. It's as clear as mud? My advice would be to obtain a mid-60s WTT and take a look. It's fascinating stuff.

We may have had this conversation before; but in 1967 1E79 was the 1200 departure from Newcastle to Lincoln. Between June 19th and September 1st this service was extended to Colchester. It does seem rather unusual for a Deltic to be working a train to Lincoln, and there is no provision for a loco change at Doncaster in the WTT, but I suspect that would be the case, and the service continue in a more leisurely fashion behind a Brush Type 2 from Doncaster to Lincoln. Although Deltics were no strangers working through Lincoln on weekend diversions, I have no recollections of them arriving on terminating services; and the northbound train left Lincoln many hours earlier, so it would not be returning on that. Maybe Gateshead found it a useful service for sending south any Deltic which was booked for attention at Doncaster works? That is my best guess at the moment.

Are you sure that 1E79 is a Newcastle to KX service? I don't have the WTT in front of me at the moment, but I will look it up later. However, in 1967 I believe all the Newcastle services (and the Edinburgh ones for that matter) had 'A' headcodes for both up and down services. Up services were odd numbers, with down trains even. That was a convention on the ECML until a year or two later. The 'E' headcodes were up services from Yorkshire, mainly Leeds/Bradford or Hull.

You have my sympathy Brian, needing just one of a class which seems to be avoiding you. 828 was not the easiest Warship to see if you were situated on the WR, (unless you were at Exeter) because it seemed to spend a lot of time working Waterloo trains, although it did venture to Plymouth and Paignton occasionally.

Yes, negatives or slides of hydraulics do tend to fetch silly money these days; but it is not just them, even class 50s are beginning to creep up in price - see http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-35mm-Railway-Slide-50027-August-1986-/191490403310?pt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item2c95b7abee