brightspark

Hi All, First of all congratulations Alan. I will see how you get on. Perhaps you can share at the next area group meeting, that I think is down your way. The past 3 weeks have seen some intensive activity in putting together the two Scalescenes buildings that were kindly provided by Alan. I have been playing around with their positions and was considering adding another structure in between. However I think that it looks quite balanced. The intermediate structure would have been a loading bay for the daily churn collection. But the layout isn't deep enough to have a flatbed truck backed up to the dock. Oh well! With the two main structures in place. I now need to think about the two ends. First is the end next to the sidings. I am thinking of either just an end of a building, made up of Will's corrugated asbestos sheet, or using the free low relief warehouse. Again from Scalescenes. If I choose the latter could line up the door next the office with the middle siding, making it look like the siding continues through the door. The door will be firmly shut thus restricting the siding length. Are there any opinions on this, or even other ideas? At the other end.... ... I fancy a row of trees against the backscene. I have some rather ancient conifers from John Piper. These are not in the league of that nice Mr Gravett, but they have been kicking around for some time and I think that they should work as a backgound effect. I am still pondering the foreground. Anybody got any suggestions? Meanwhile, it's time to place some rolling stock on the rails and take a step back to see how it's coming on. Yes, I am pleased with that.

Another layout with point rodding is D.A. Williams Metropolitan Junction. Note that the rodding is NOT cosmetic, it actually operates the points and signals. I took these very hasty snaps on Thursday when Richard had set the layout up for a running session.

Time to report in. Progress is ongoing with the buildings that bodmin16 kindly provided. On seeing the completed factory unit SWMBO commented that she has worked in buildings just like that. I have used the windows from Scaleglaze. These are printed directly on a clear film. A bit bright at the moment and of course lack the layers and depth that you can get from etched frames or even scratch build, but are effective and will suit the purposes of this project. I will tone them down a bit later on. I have also had an enquiry about showing this and having said yes, I have to fill in the exhibitors form and that is asking questions about footprint, lighting, power supply and do I want a table to put it on. So today I had a look at how I want to exhibit this. I think that such a small layout can be more or less completed in time to a presentable standard. Although there is scope for more detailing afterwards. This is the mock up. Height is 48" so it can viewed standing and sat in the high chairs. I know that this is too high for wheelchairs and very small children. However if a youngster wants to have a go we can sit them in a high chair and this should bring them up to the correct height. What do you think? It is intended to accompany the EMGS stand to provide a point of interest and to demonstrate an way of getting into EM without having to convert all of your stock and layout (if you are a OO modeller) or if you are new to the hobby that not all layouts have to go round and round or even that shunting planks can be fun. (Mr Wright?) TTFN

Very good show. As said above, not too crowded a few traders less, well ventilated and a chance to say hello to few old faces. Lots of lovely layouts and it was difficult to choose the best. But standing out were Bridgwater...for decent sound effects. Especially the clunking from the signal box. Canalside, nice beam engine and a clever way of dealing with the background. Elbow lane, (see above). Nice compact layout and I shall take some ideas from it. Kaninchenbau, for the large number of trains running at one time, with only one operator. A clever use of computer control to create a very interesting layout. This is not to detract form the other layouts, it's just that these stood out to me.

Hello again Tony and all, If you don't mind, I just want to go back to the churchman and the early layouts with loco's wired back to front or wired correctly and everyone else got it wrong. Well Richard Stevenson, (he who brought along the American and the Hogsback light railway loco & is still not signed up to RM web) was intrigued by my question as to how the wiring convention came about and has done some digging. Here is a summary of the correspondence, that he asked me to post. Hi Andy I have just seen your contribution to Wright Writes. The Metropolitan Junction locos were originally wired the wrong way round according to the EMGS manual sheet and, it seems, ready to run OO models. I was reluctant to change them at first in case there was some aspect of the layout electrics, possibly isolation breaks, which would fail to work if they were altered. However, as I got more of the layout operational and tried running some of my own locos on it with no problems appearing, the difference started to get exasperating. I concluded that it would have to be dealt with and devoted several modelling sessions to changing the motor wiring. Also, where refurbishment has involved removal of the wheels, I have replaced the insulated wheels on the side specified in the manual sheet. I must check my HO locos to see if they all conform to the same convention. The Americans were using 2-rail in the late 30's, so there could be an NMRA standard from way back. Richard The EMGS manual sheet 5.3.2.o was published in 1988. I wondered if there were earlier references. Perhaps in the old newsletter, The Marshallling Yard. Hi Andy, I have not found any mention of locomotive polarity in the issues of 'The Marshalling Yard' that I have or in the Technical Notes booklet. There is a very detailed three part article in 'The Marshalling Yard' on the conversion of a Hornby Dublo 'Castle' to EM which I thought might mention polarity, but it does not and neither does it state on which side the insulated driving wheels should go. The Model Railways Handbook 7th Edition, probably published late 1963 (an ad for the MRN shows the cover of the Sept 1963 issue) includes the BRMSB standard dimensions, but does not mention locomotive polarity. The NMRA Electrical Standard S-9 was revised Aug. 1984 and states: "Positive potential applied to the right hand rail shall produce forward motion." This is much more concise than the rather wordy manual sheet. (Issue 1 dated April 1988) There is nothing on the NMRA website to indicate when S-9 was first issued. I suspect that somewhere, in the early days of 2-rail in the UK, the opposite polarity was recommended. I remember a meeting at Philip Millard's house [MRJ77 - 40 years of building rolling stock] and finding that his locos were wired like that when I ran "Cardean". I have checked all my brass HO locomotives and find that they all conform to the NMRA standard for polarity. The insulated side is not consistent, however. I would guess that the current UK polarity convention was set by Rovex or possibly Graham Farish. As Graham Farish were attempting to export to the US, conformance with the NMRA standard may not be a coincidence. Richard So is this a logical explanation or is there another piece of the puzzle? If these layouts and locomotives were wired up without visiting another layout and the choice was random, then I would expect to see a 50/50 split on the direction. But on the early layouts we don't seem to be finding this and I believe that locos were run on other layouts. I wonder if there are other early layouts wired this way. For instance, Borchester, does anyone know? Andy

I think the Churchman and TBG may be correct. Met Junction loco's are also wired the correct way around. And as these layouts were the first, everyone else is wrong. [Points trembling finger at congregation] Who set us on the wrong path away from the true and divine method of wiring up our loco's? So impressed was I at the rest of the layout that I forgot about the three link failure. It has puzzled me as to how this has happened. I like to run rakes of wagons with three links in the middle and AJ's at the end. I have only come across the problem of the coupling "knotting itself" after someone has tried to fiddle with it. I am also still bemused by the Crownline attempt at compensation. Thank you for showing it to me, it was interesting to see and has got my little grey cells working around what is happening to the loco to make it dance it's merry jig and more importantly how I avoid making the same error. I think that when Mr Crownline designed that chassis, he must either have lost faith in the principle or only read part of the book, or had some other idea that he only half pursued. (BTW, I have a strong idea as to what is happening and will make sure that my efforts will run as smooth as silk when on show) Either way it is a very unhappy loco, even if does look exquisite. Oh and I really enjoyed running the MR/M&GN bit. Thanks Muchly

Hi Tony, thanks for hosting us. It was a day worth waiting for. The S15 is my effort and is described in this thread. I think that Tony has captured it well in his portrait. He did however question my sanity as I had built it with a compensated chassis instead of a rigid chassis. I explained that my rational for doing so was to try and get improved track holding and better pick up. As I was saying this, several trains were running past at speed on LB, all with rigid chassis pulling full length trains and showing no sign of faltering or leaving the four foot. Oh well.

Hi John, It looks great. But how did you produce this in O? I get the impression that it was a OO print. Did you blow it up on a photocopier? The other creamery in the link also looks good. But I think that Scalescenes have put more thought into hiding cardboard ends. Meanwhile I have got around halfway through the low relief factory.

I just received these from Modelu. That's a HUGE number of milk churns. I wonder if I have enough? These are part of the latest release from Modelu. (no connection)

I think that this building is a good basis for a model. Does it need much rework? As for your woodworking skill, I am sure that it is better than you think. Plus there are lots of kits out there.

That's exactly what I was thinking of. Note how it has been cut down. Certainly food for thought for any future project. However, Bodmin16 has been very generous and sent me these. The free kits from Hornby Magazine. The Railway works is available to buy, However the Dairy is not, which I feel is a shame. Knocking up a space model, they look like they fit the 4' long baseboard quite nicely. So thanks Alan. Andy

Hi Martin, I just used a pair of Lowmac solid wheels as they come on the pin-point axle which is Ø2mm. I spoke to Colin at Gibson Workshop about this. Although he would like to do some new wheels and industrial stuff, he finds that he really doesn't have the time available to do the development work. However it is not a disaster as the conversion really is dead simple and I think that this would make an ideal project for anyone thinking of dabbling in either P4 or EM. Here is the conversion method. (I should do a manual sheet for both societies) 1. Remove body and lower plate as per Hornby diagram. Note that you must push the plug back into the chassis to remove the body. 2 . Take the Gibson wheels as supplied on their axles. Remove both wheels. 3. Take each axle and removed from both ends of the axle the pin-points. Then shortened the axle to length. In my case 21mm [21 = B to B + (wheel thickness x2)]. You should have enough room for P4, but I don't know how thick the Gibson P4 wheels are. An alternative is Wizard whose wheels, I believe, are a little narrower. Don't forget to add a slight chamfer onto the ends of the axle so that you open out the bore of the wheel. 4. Carefully measure and mark up where the Hornby gear will need to be on the new axle by measuring the offset from the centre line. 5.Place the axle onto a cutting mat or similar, take a hand file of around 6 inches in length, and using the edge of the file with teeth, roll the axle across the mat using the file and a fair degree of pressure at the point where you marked the axle. This will provide a splined effect on the axle sufficient to grip the axle gear wheel WARNING- DO NOT MAKE THE SPLINE TOO WIDE. There is a bearing that is very close to gear wheel and you must not allow the spline to enter the bearing. (If you do make it wide, run a swiss file around the excess spline so that it enters the bearing freely. 6. With the Gibson wheels off the axles drill out the stress holes. It is quite easy, The first pair of holes are already part of the way through. The other two I did by lining up the wheel on my cutting mat and using the lines of the mat as a guide. 7. Remove the wheel assemblies from the Hornby model and strip. Recover the gears and bushes. 8 . assemble the replacement axles by first installing the gears, then the bushes and finally the wheels setting the correct wheel spacing using a back to back gauge. Before installing the new axle assemblies I greased them well. You do not need any spacer washers behind the wheels as the gears hold the wheels sets in position with a little bit of side play. 9. with the axles assembled and and the base plate back on check that the model is sitting on the track correctly. 10. The existing pick ups were designed to run on the back of the Hornby wheel but the Gibson wheel has a plastic centre and will be too far away. So solder some phosphor-bronze wire onto the existing pick-ups to extend them so that they reach the tire of the wheel. Adjust so that they all touch and then cut the pick to length. 11. test run and put the body back on. The AJ coupling was mounted by bending the tail 90° and bonding it into a slot inside the body. Also make a clearance slot on the chassis. It has to be the easiest conversion ever. Here is another shot of mine with it's proud driver who is always smartly turned out. Let me know how you get on. A

Thanks Alan. and received in Saturdays post. Most generous. And I think that will sort out the buildings....more to follow.

A thing of beauty. Where is this? Does anyone know what the history is? A

I think Gerry Bixley uses a lot of the RTI parts and I think may have helped develop the parts. I shall point out to him the circles and see what he comes up with.

If you mean this photo. It is a Bedford. Express Dairies seemed to like Bedfords. My good friend Mr Bixley is going to make one up for me. If your are interested in the road operation of Express Dairies then I recommend have a look at The Express Dairy Motorised Fleet A

This one. I like the Art Deco style (?) windows. Again a canopy over the platform. Please post a picture as I would like to see how it looks on your layout.

Hi Alan, Ah yes, height. First of all I was thinking of reducing the height of a Walthers structure if used. But yes I will have to consider the height of the layout especially with the lighting rig being enclosed. I guess that it will come down to the size of the "letterbox" at the front of the layout. For that I will experiment with some cardboard. Talking of cardboard, I have been doing some experimenting with sizes and shapes of structures. These may or may not be made from commercially available kits. First lets remind ourselves of the type of thing that I am thinking of. First we have the country receiving depot at Billingshurst. I also stumbled across this site that has some nice pictures and memories of Chard Junction and the Creamery. However at the moment the Sussex depot is my main inspiration. Here are some mock-ups of possible buildings. The first is a general view with a even roof on the main structure. The building on the left of the road is just going to be a tin shed painted black. I made up the building shape as the first mock up for the main shed. But ended up just liking the simple shape of the structure. Across the concrete road is a representation of the office block from Billingshurst. I think it is a mess-room on the lower floor and the lab upstairs. To the right of that is the main structure. I mocked up part of the platform and put on a Wills corrugated sheet for an idea of texture. Just look again at that roof in the still above, different angles and textures and then look at the sides. I imagine that this is a reuse of an earlier building, perhaps ex- Ministry of Supply or Ministry of Food. However I don't like the way that the roof line tapers. The next photo an earlier attempt. I think that this is a bit more successful. The height of the roof is perhaps better as is above the normal sightline when looking at the model. The righthand block is about the size of the Walthers model but lowered. If I used this it would of course have a flat roof and perhaps retain the structure on top of the roof. I would remove two of the floors if this was used. Back to the cardboard mock-up, I am not sure about the awning by the van and tank. The awning at Vauxhall didn't seem to be a problem, as it was not cut away. But I wonder if this would have been a desirable feature. Meanwhile I think that with arrangement for the lorry access that more poured concrete is required in the foreground and perhaps another access over the leat. I'll leave you with a shot of two of the tankers that I purchased. After looking at this thread on milk tank liveries, I am sure that the selection that I have gathered are incorrect for the period while at the same time possibly correct. (these two liveries are in the film) Andy

Activity this week saw the whole layout covered in a muddy brown colour. This is the burnt umber poster paint that I use as base for scenic work. I covered the bare area of board and under the tracks and painted the sides of the rails. Next at the end I have started to make the gate that restricts the size of the headshunt. This is a Wills level crossing kit. I am basing this on the level crossing gates at Croydon power station. (Surrey Steam, Welch.) I have also started work on the timber crossing , roadway and bridge. The boarded crossing is based on a photo of one on the Wisbeach & Upwell (page 114 Cameo Layouts). The bridge is going to be of a kind that I recall from youth with a boarded top and girder sides. At some point in the future, the boards would replaced by cement and covered in tarmac. Then its back to testing to make sure that I have not gummed everything up. Actually, as expected I had, but the groundworks are just dropped into place, at the moment, so that they can be adjusted. One lesson that I have learnt is to make sure that where the scenery adjoins the rail, that it is not higher than the rail top as the little Rushton will lift its wheels off the track. Here is the layout being tested. The wagons are my existing stock and are also being tested to remove any faults, of which I have found plenty. Most of the errors are around the installation of the AJ couplings. So there has been lots of tweaking. The levers with the white background are to operate the uncoupler magnets. Rotate down to raise the magnet and uncouple. While I continue with the ground works it is time to consider the buildings. I could just scratchbuild something (but what exactly). However an easier option is to look at the ready to plonk or a kit that could be reworked. The most obvious choice would be the Bachmann Milk depot. (Image Bachmann) But I think that this looks a little crude. However it has the character of Seaton, Vauxhall or perhaps Wimbledon. Scalescenes offer the industrial box file. But I wonder how easy is this to reverse to suit my track layout. Also the buildings look a little too grubby for a dairy. There is also the goods shed that could have potential. Chard made use of the old goods shed. Another option could be the Industrial units or even the low relief factory. This would suggest that the site had a previous use and that the buildings were repurposed. I also spotted in the current Hornby magazine a dairy made up from a modified Walthers Red Wing Milling company mill. This is a nice post war feel about it. There is also the smaller low relief version. These look like some of the dairies in the west country and could be a good candidate for the Sussex/Hampshire area. Anything else I missed or do any of you have an opinion as to which of the above would give the right character? Meanwhile, while you ponder that, I have some shunting to do. Andy

Very nice Alan. I like the short spur for just holding stock. With ref to post 1, here is a link to my effort Anshurst - Daisy Sidings. Andy

Upon reflection, I think that the brake is just being used here as a reacher because the 'dirty' steam engine mustn't go into the clean shed. I would have thought that you would want everyone off the wagons if the loco was buffering up. So it could be a case of 'is that still open'. But I would have thought that this would have been closed well before the train was due to leave. Who knows what was really happening? They are probably long dead. Meanwhile 235511 has acquired a driver. I suspect that he is in the wrong position. But looking at some videos including the ED film, it looks like leaning out of the cab is often done. Play safe A

I have not seen that photo before. A few things that I noticed. What does that sign actually say on the left of the picture? I assume that it is no engines of some sort. Behind the Loco is a Brake van. It could suggest that the shunt is to move empties out as the brake would need to be this end ready for reversal at St Hellier. But atop of the first tanker there is someone with the lid open. Based on what I understand of the operation, this is to take a sample of the contents. So this must a full tanker. So what is going on here? To the right behind the coal wagon is a good view of the buffer. It looks like a very substantial wall that has been painted white. I think I will have that on the current layout. Thanks for posting that.

This I like. But again overthinking it....I wonder if you could actually do a R&H 48DS control panel? Controls for brake (progressive like the Pentroller), forward and reverse and a 3 speed gear box. Any takers?

Hi Ruston, That's a good point, well made. As it was we held a small meeting of our area group on Sunday and I took along Daisy Sidings. We did have one operator who initially "struggled" with the speed dial on the controller. But he soon found that are settings below 11, and these gave better results. So yes, perhaps over thinking it.

I was thinking more for the guest operators.