Captain Nick

Thanks John, you have cleared that one up for me. Incidentally I have been having more success this morning with 'fine tuning' my locos. I also experimented with a wheel set and found that smother running is afforded when the B2Bs are over 14.6 on rtr wheels. At least I could actually see what was happening in the crossing flangeway. On a slightly different note perhaps but is it fairly normal with new hand built track to tune out imperfections once laid? For example, burrs and slight miss-aligned rail joins? Brgds Nick

Hi John No, they have been built using the thin ones. The builder used C&L components for the hand built turnouts and crossings but the ordinary track was C&L flexi track in order to cut costs. On another note, I'm slightly perplexed by line in the Templot info above which states :- Nominal Gauge : 00-BF 16.5 4mm/ft 1:76.2 00 BRSMSB Fine There seems to me to be a conflict here perhaps? Just to reiterate, most of my crossing flangeways are 1.00mm or just over but most are 1mm. Brgds Nick

This is information taken from my Templot files appertaining to the crossing illustrated in the first photo above. Its all a bit technical for me but others might glean something from it to see what's going on. In the mean time its back to the tweaking of loco wheels. Progress is being made by trial and error!

Martin and Hayfield. Many thanks for your last posts and I shall be guided accordingly. FYI. I was just tootling with an 8F on the bit of track in the first photo. The engine crawls through on the lowest control setting, no bumps etc, very smooth. The tender however (B2Bs about 14.45) bounces over the LH crossing flange way gap and also does the same on the RHS Can't work out whether its climbing over the gap or hitting the nose, I suspect the former as it does it both ways. The Check gauge at this point is 15.25 Regards Nick

Martin, Hayfield and Ravenser. I am extremely grateful and appreciative of your help and comments about my track work and how I may alleviate some of the problems encountered. I realise that both from this thread and elsewhere on here that Martin and Ravenser don't sing from the same hymn sheet but I have been interested with what both have had to say. I think I will purchase some gauges from C&L (who I know were suppliers of the raw materials) and see what befalls as Hayfield suggests, however, after such a period from when the track was constructed, I am reluctant to contact the builder although I can't offer any reason for not doing so. Just one question Hayfield if I may. In view of the various measurements I have supplied, what should be the final check rails gaps be if I were to adjust them.? Would that be the same for the wing rails in the first photo which are wider than elsewhere on the layout. Once again, many thanks for your help and support gentlemen. Nick

Hi Ravenser. Many thanks for your comments. It will take a little thought to get my head around what the way forward will be. The main problem by far were rtr locos 'climbing' over or binding in the crossing flange ways and the cure for this was opening out the B2Bs. With the rolling stock there were never any problems following this route.

Hi Martin I have spent more time closely looking at the track. Contrary to what I had posted above reference the track gauge, I now find that some parts of the track are as much as 16.6 and even 16.7. I have to say that you, Ravenser and Hayfield are being most kind by not actually saying that my track is a crock of S.H. One. T.. However this is the conclusion I'm coming to. On the bright side, I am starting to understand what is possibly going on and I do have locos running satisfactorily due to tweaking on my part. There are continuing problems such as this mornings exercise whereby I have two identically converted 4Fs with Romford wheels and loco drive. One goes through the diamond crossing below okay whilst the other hits the nose in the bottom left and invariably turns to the right as if it were a turn out. The flange ways here are up to 1.6m wide for some reason. The second crossing shown seems to be okay with locos running through okay. The third picture is of one of two single slips that I have. Although not tried with all of my stock, it does seem to work satisfactorily. The diamond crossing in the first picture is the only one where the loco referred to above hits the nose. Occasionally I have a coach in the middle of a formation coming to grief too but adjustment seems to cure this.

I know how you feel when things don't go quite to plan. Time is a great healer. I always reckoned that if a job wasn't going well then it was wise to walk away for a while, have a cup of tea, do something else and then go back to the job. I am kind of doing that this week! As for your question; my universe still has the Midland main Line running up to Peak Dale (Forrest) and on through to Chinley. Buxton junction is still in situ but a diverging line just further on takes a secondary main line past Longnor and into Cheshire past Rudyard lake, joining the CLC somewhere west of Congleton. So in theory we could have GC freight at least running through Wormdale to the Notts and Derby coalfields. As for the Duchess? Well, I just fancied seeing my favourite loco thundering through non stop on a named express; a forerunner to the Midland Pullman perhaps?

Thanks Martin and Ravenser for your thoughts and advice. I have spent a lot of time today really looking at and measuring a selection of turnouts out of the sixty or so on my layout. It would appear that most crossing flange way gaps are 1.00mm gaps with some at just under 1.1mm, not the 1.15 I said earlier. Below is what I have gleaned : Wormdale Track Dimensions.doc Notwithstanding other problems with my locos such as poor running, servicing requirements and cv issues, most locos, that is to say those with modern rtr wheel profiles, run well with B2B of 14.8mm. The turnouts are all fairly largish radii and my second best runner, a WD 2-8-0, runs well through the formations with increased B2Bs I should be grateful for your further comments based on the measurements above. Regards Nick

Hi Martin and Rowsley. Thanks for your comments. I have checked the check gauge and it does seem to be 15.2 although I don't have the check gauge tool. I may well make one as per Martin's thread elsewhere. Just to re-iterate, just about all my waggon and coach wheels are set at a B2B of 14.8 go through the point work with apparent ease. It just that I have b*****d up the Duchess (does that sound right?) in setting the B2B. I have an Airfix 4F which has been modified to have a motor in the boiler and Romford wheels but it only has pick-ups on two of the tender axles, nothing on the drivers and so stalls easily. When it is going it does go through the points easily with i's 14.8 B2Bs. I think, with hindsight, I should have taken on board and understood the problems of fine scale track at the outset and proceeded appropriately. My main criteria when I began Wormdale was to replicate the flowing track work I had been mesmerised with at shows and in the magazines. I have fifteen locos in total so it shouldn't be too much of a project to get them running in the same way as my Black 5 runs. It may take time, advice, expertise and money, but the damn things WILL run. Low morale now turning more belligerent I think!! The Duchess will be restored to her athletic prowess and beauty. (But surely, you ask, there were never, ever, Coronations running on the Midland Main Line! In the world of Wormdale, they did on one particular train I have decreed!)

Thanks Al. I was just having a whinge. I know I have one perfect loco and my stock is fine so that's a start I suppose. It's my fault for not running trains this last couple of years and concentrating on scenery and buildings instead. Changing the B2Bs on non loco (modern) stock is easy. I just use a brass 'hammer' gauge and they run perfectly. I will. however get my locos working no matter what it takes. The Black 5 is a joy to watch moving very slowly through the formations and so it becomes my gold standard. As for changing wheels on the locos with the 'older wheels' then I will need further advice so I may have to post in the "HELP" sub forum. I certainly don't want to get embroiled in one of those gauge standard arguments hereabouts although I read Martin Wynn's posts with interest as the 'Godfather' of all things track. After all, I have good looking track and it does work so when my morale improves........I'll get back to work on it but if anyone else out there in RMWeb Land can offer me advice then I'll welcome it. Now.....Time for a Prosecco!!

Well a few weeks have gone by since I last posted and all I have to show for it is a kit bashed Ratio Midland signal box, the inside levers etc. not yet attempted. I'm pretty despondent with all things Wormdale at the moment. My locos won't run properly and I have possibly shred the gears on a Hornby Duchess whist trying to increase the B to Bs. On that note, I have been following the various threads on the Hand Built Track/Templot sub forum and been taken aback by the intensity of some of the arguments and opinions expressed thereon. From all this I have learnt quite a great deal about my own track work. Those following this thread will know that I had my track work hand built by 'Just Tracks' four or five years ago. I had thought it was constructed to 00-Finescale, ie 16.5 gauge with 1mm flange ways. Well I was wrong. I used to have Templot downloaded on my last computer but hadn't got round to re-installing it on my new one. This I have now done and consequently had a look at Wormdale's original files and found that my track is actually constructed to 00-BF standards with flange ways of 1.25mm. However,.... It appears on inspection and measurement that some of my flange ways are set at 1mm, as I had originally assumed. Has this been part of my loco running problems? All my coaches and waggons run through the pointwork with no trouble at all, old stuff with chunky wheels and deep flanges have been replaced with finer wheels, but... they have all had their B to Bs altered to 14.8mm. The only loco that runs perfectly both motorwise and through the point work smoothly is my un-modified Hornby Black 5 except for the fact that the B to Bs are now set at 14.8 minimum. I have similarly had a go at some other locos but these seem to stutter or jerk at slow speed so I guess that as they seem to go through the pointwork fairly well that the issue here are motor problems and/or the CVs need tweaking. Some of these locos also lose current at times going over the (clean) points so maybe keep-alives' are the answer? Should I look at re-wheeling the locos as yet still with their 14.4 B to Bs but with decidedly chunky looking flanges? What with the railway room being in a continual mess and looking more like an artist's untidy studio with bits and bobs strewn willy nilly about the work benches. Why am I so bl***y untidy? Is it any wonder that I'm depressed with, and about all things, modelling!

Hi Al Well done you! I haven't even contemplated the signalling for Wormdale yet.( I have actually but it frightens me) Are you taking on commissions? No, oh well it was just a thought. Nick

Train departed!

You are very kind but I'm a long way from the standard of so many excellent craft people on here, the very people who have given me so much inspiration. I just wish I could actually get some of my locos to run satisfactorily (this mornings frustrations!). I have one near perfect Black 5 running whilst all the others stutter or not run at all. Joseph thinks people may be put of by the name of my layout and he may have a point. Wormdale is named after the pretty but ancient hamlet of Wormhill that sits above Chee Dale. As I was sticking in an extra bit of dale between Millers Dale and Chee Dale, I thought that Wormdale would fit the bill by way of a suitable name. Anyway, many thanks to you all for following my rather intermittent thread. Regards Nick

Sorry about that folks. I thought I'd lost my first attempt at replying to Joseph. Now, where's that Prosecco...?

It's because I'm a slow modeller Joseph. I also have to do other things which take me away from the hobby, or should that be 'craft'? I am speeding up a little as I learn more thanks to all the good folks on RM Web which has been a great help since I undertook this project.

Hi Joseph. It's because I'm very slow at modelling together with a lot of other competing things that I have to do. I am getting faster as I learn more about the hobby. or should we say 'craft'?

Well, what an exhausting session that was! I have two 4Fs, one Hornby and the other, an old Airfix. Both have been converted to loco drive with Romford wheels. Unfortunately both motors 'jerk' somewhat. Also the current pick up on the Hornby one is very poor although I cannot see what the problem is. I have spent most of this sunny afternoon trying to sort out the CVs but with no luck. Also a tortoise has stopped doing what it is supposed to and requires investigation. It has just left me with a sore head. Thank God it's nearly drink'o'clock! Management is taking me out for a ruby ce soir to be preceded by copious amounts of Prosecco at a hostelry that sells them by the glass for £2.50. I cannot possibly divulge where this fountain of honey is located as you'll all want a glass or two. I digress. Here are some more pics that I've taken so as to get my morale back on track and to be less grumpy this evening. Mind you, 'twas she who got me into model railways in the first place.

Funnily enough, Jerry lives a couple of roads away from me. At the time you were there John, I was standing by a new build, the Watling Street (later that year, renamed Pilar del Mar) in Italy before being chartered to Iscomar. What a rubbish outfit that was. They ended up defaulting on the charter payments and going bust. I hope you have a quiet winter but at least you should have plenty of power available and not much windage. Nick I apologise to those reading in for the 'lamp swinging'!

The Management has just gone out for a very expensive hair colouring operation. (Carried out by a very charming blonde lady who will be cutting my hair next week and with whom I flirt most outrageously) so I'm kind of scullying about doing naff all at the computer face, so here's another pic of my weathered waggons.

Yoh!! It works!

Hi John. I'm having problems with the 'reply using this quote button' so following advice hereabouts I'm hoping this works. Nick

Hi John. When were you with Iscomar? Were you on The Pilar del Mar or the Blanca del Mar? What are you doing now? Brgds Nick