ROY@34F

Yes Captain . It happened to me many years ago , probably the late seventies when they were Romfords ; before Markits I would say . The milled ends were well out of quarter on one axle . 

Regards , Roy

20 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Roy,

 

I don't know where I read about this, but I did. I think it only refers to goods brake vans.

 

I've got a 1955 BR Rule Book, so I'll have a look in that tomorrow. It might contain something about rear lamps.

 

Regards, 

 

Tony. 

Good evening to you too Tony , 

I have a rule book somewhere I'm sure , not sure where though !  Thanks for your prompt reply .

Regards ,  Roy.

22 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Greg,

 

'does the brake van on a fully fitted freight train in BR steam days have side lamps fitted?'

 

Not normally, though there are some regulations pertaining to where there are multi tracks (more than two), where side lamps might be carried to identify which road a train was on.

 

Regards,

 

Tony

 

 

You may well be right there Tony , indeed it would make sense . But would it still apply to a light engine with just the one tail lamp ? Or a slower stopping passenger train on a slow road ? Just thinking going down Stoke bank in the dark there . 

   Regards , Roy .

19 hours ago, G Mills said:

Hi Tony and fellow modellers, l am in the process of  starting to place lamps on the front and rear of my trains.

My question is, does the brake van on a fully fitted freight train in BR steam days have side lamps fitted?

E.g., red light facing to the rear and a white light facing forward. 

Unable to find many photos covering  this subject.

Regards

Greg Mills

No , not on a fully fitted train . Just one red lamp on the middle lamp bracket .

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning,

 

Despite the driver having a 'dose of the squits' (by the way, what happened to steam crews when they were caught short?), the loco does have a driver (and a fireman - one or two even have a loco inspector as well!). Along with displaying appropriate lamps, all completed locos running on Little Bytham are crewed (visiting locos are exempt from these imperatives). On how many other steam-age depictions can this be said to be true?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

If you have to go you have to go Tony . As others have said , the shovel was handy . Lay paper on it first and chuck it all in the box when done . There was always old relayer notices and daily updates of work on the line , local appendix updates and suchlike paperwork kicking about in the tender cupboards . I can't remember the bucket being used . We used to wash up / freshen up in it at the end of a return trip . plenty of hot soft water out the slacker pipe .

  Regards , Roy .

7 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

When I did a footplate ride on the Moors about 25 years ago, the driver - who shall remain nameless - waited until there was a long left hand bend, slowed the J27 down a bit and went out of the drivers' cab side.  I don't recall looking, but I assume he was confident there would have been no lineside photographers about.

Yes that was regularly done Jonathan . Quite a gap between engine and tender  !  just try and miss the handrail  !

Regards  , Roy .

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Some more thoughts on train lamps............

 

Don't always assume that lamps were always carried correctly.....

 

 

This K1 displays the correct code for running light engine, in reverse.

 

 

Yet, this O2/3 (also running in reverse) has its lamp positioned for running light engine, forwards! 

 

Both were taken at Retford in the early-'60s, so maybe 'station limits' local codes were in use.

 

I have two light engine movements in Little Bytham's operating sequence. In the two views below............

 

 

 

A light engine C12 is correctly lamped-up, as it's passed by two Class B stoppers (which also carry the correct codes). 

 

I'm often puzzled by different lamp positions denoting (what appears to be) exactly the same type of train.......

 

 

In this view, taken just north of Grantham, this Austerity has empty iron ore wagons under a Class F code.

 

Yet..........

 

 

At High Dyke, the same type of train is running under a Class J status. 

 

Any type of unfitted minerals (empty or full) seem to carry these codes. 

 

Which............

 

 

 

I've replicated on Little Bytham (the leading wagon is fitted).

 

The most common code for unfitted minerals, empty or full............

 

 

Seems to be Class H.

 

Which................

 

 

I've also replicated on LB. 

 

Please observe copyright restrictions on the prototype images. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good evening Tony . In my experience , as I remember . If in station limits or even just light engine up to Highdyke , so long as there was a lamp on each end it didn't matter where . This also applied up the Stainby branch where there would be a lamp left on each end of the engine even with a train attached  ! . If going any distance light engine of course there must be a lamp in the middle at the front and anywhere on the back .  Class "H" lamps was for loose coupled goods not calling anywhere en route , as in the iron ore trains from Highdyke to Frodingham . The class "F" (lamps at chimney and left buffer) also known as no. 4 speed , was for loose coupled goods , and we always used that on the iron ore empties . But also on most other loose coupled mixed goods . Speeds were about 30 or 35 I reckon for all unfitted trains . of course open lights express speed just limited to local line speeds , as was local pass. with on e lamp only at the chimney  , and also no. 1 speed with lamps at right buffer and middle position , used for fully piped trains of goods or empty coaching stock . No. 2 and three speeds were for partially piped trains (lamps on chimney and in the middle (No.2) and middle and left buffer(No.3) . 

    Hope this is of interest and I have got it right in may old age (haha)

           Regards , Roy .

At Grantham the local water is very hard , and so there was a water softening plant in the loco , and there was a large tank at the end of the old coaling stage , on top of the stores/ mess rooms which I'm sure fed all the water columns in the station and goods yards , as well as the loco . If we topped up with water up the Stainby branch from Highdyke , we had to put some tablets in the tender to soften the local water supply . 

       I'm sure Grantham wasn't the only depot with a water softener , but I just can't think of others at the moment . But it's long time ago .

Regards , Roy .

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

There was no problem with the cab on 2003.

 

 

Though, either the seats are too high or the crew's legs are too short!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

It doesn't quite look right in the cab does it Tony . The seats are maybe a tad too high , though not much I think . The floor does look a bit low in relation to the firehole door, but again not by too much . I have to say the firehole door itself is excellent .There used to be an additional wooden box "stool" for the driver and fireman additional to the already raised platforms each side . Maybe these platforms could be a bit deeper ?  When sitting facing forward the fireman would sit with the left foot up resting on the slacker pipe valve , which is missing in this Hornby cab , and right arm resting on the open side window and watching the road ahead . But he wouldn't  have the shovel hanging from  his hand , like this guy . Most odd is that .The driver's hand is in mid air , or is it a gesture as the driver and fireman look to be facing each other having a natter . The backs of the seats shouldn't go down to the floor like that , again most odd . While I'm at it , the shovel ain't right for eastern region engines . it should have a much narrower and longer blade . The hinged fall plate looks good though as Graeme King noted .

    Well having got that off my chest . Sorry for perhaps an over critical reply !

       Regards , Roy.

Many thanks for your update Dave . Poetry in motion isn't it , the Gresley conjugated valve gear . I fired on these engines occasionally when at Grantham in my youth , and with two years on loan to K.X. Top Shed . I have had a Finney A4 kit for years , but whether I will ever make it now ... I am two weeks short of 82 .  But you describing your build is very inspiring .

Roy .

I too was unable to get on 10 minutes ago . had 2 or 3 goes before success . My security thingy blocked it . Don't ask  ..These things are well beyond me  !

46 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Wonderful work Tony,

 

Thanks for posting.

 

You built a 'mean' B1 in your far off OO days as well...............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm now privileged to own both these locos and run them on Little Bytham.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Something wrong with 61206 in your photo Tony ?  The radius rod has fallen too low at the valve rod end by the look of it .

Regards , Roy .

On 15/10/2022 at 21:03, Chas Levin said:

Hello Dave, I shall follow with interest and I hope the build goes well: like you, I have one of these in the pile...

Me too have pondered the contents of the green boxes over the years . Following this with interest . Good luck .

 Regards , Roy .

19 hours ago, Flying Fox 34F said:

Iron Ore traffic from High Dyke to Frodingham, was routed via Sleaford, Boston and the East Lincs line.  There was the Aldwarke run with fitted wagons which ran ECML with Pacific haulage to boot!

 

Paul

We used to have a loose coupled train of loaded tipplers from Highdyke to Doncaster as well Paul , in steam days . Always one of our "Tangos" , we used to leave the train in a yard on the downside (Decoy ? ...not sure} , take the engine to the loco where the foreman would tell us to take the engine home light engine usually . Or sometimes work a train back . Or go home "on the cushions' .  Was that train also destined for Aldwark ? . I don't know . 

    I have been on the Aldwarke job a few times with an A3 , though it was rostered in a higher link , (No. 3 link} to the other Frodingham jobs . It turned off the main line at Doncaster , and did a circular route back to rejoin the mainline at Retford In the early hours of the day . We were "under the wires" in the Sheffield area ... something we were'nt accustomed to at the time .    Happy days though .

Regards , Roy .

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Steve,

 

You're right in it being difficult to tell from B&W pictures whether a V2's firebox band is lined or not.

 

Plate 33 in Eastern Region Steam Twilight Part One by Colin Walker shows 60800 backing down into Kings Cross in 1961, and I don't think the band is lined (though I could be mistaken). None of my BR green-liveried V2s have the band lined, though, it would appear, it was more-typical to have it lined. 

 

Any colour pictures I took of V2s are inconclusive, because they were so dirty! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony . I didn't think the firebox bands were lined on any of the wide firebox RA9 engines at that time  . But it's a long time ago to rely on memory alone isn't it . I have looked at plate 33 in Colin Walkers book you refer to and , as you say , I don't think it's lined , but not easy to be sure . 

Regards , Roy

7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Steve,

 

The bogies supplied are really good - far better than the standard Kirk ones (on which this vehicle rides at the moment)...........

 

 

I had these bogies already in stock, so indolence made me use them (for now). 

 

Weathering awaits.

 

A reasonable enough 'layout' vehicle? I'll take a shot of it on the layout this morning to see. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Tony , That maroon looks nice to me . Could you remind us what rattle can colour you used please .

Regards , Roy .

On 24/01/2022 at 18:13, thegreenhowards said:

Roy,

 

Normally I’d agree with you. Class K is the classic branch pick up good with a lamp over the right buffer (as you look at it head on). However, the WTT for Peterborough- London seems to show the pick up goods as a Class H as I’ve shown it. This helps me as it’s the same head code as the mineral trains so I can get away with gluing them on!

 

I may be wrong so if anyone has definitive evidence to the contrary, please shout.

 

Andy

 

 

I apologise Andy , I thought you had mentioned that train was a pick up goods . Class H through from one place to another is quite right as you say , if it does'nt stop to pick up en route . But for the WWT to call it a pick up just seems a bit odd to me with that headcode . 

Regards , Roy

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Just a little something to add to the tender front colour debate...........

 

Seen of late, but a tighter crop.

 

 

Difficult to tell, but it's the best I've got. I think it's green. 

 

On another note; why do I bother getting my handrails straight and centre my numbers on cabsides? 

 

 

Yes Tony , I rather think it's green . I have looked through Kieth Pirt's book of his colour photos in Grantham which is the best I've got and they are all debatable . I think it 's maybe like you suggest they were not all the same , or they were painted green in the latter few years which is my period . But I have to admit I do now doubt myself considering varying opinions  

       I have a photo somewhere of me in Tornado's cab at Grosmont which I'm sure was green on the tender front , as shown on Graham's photo a few posts back . Having said all this , I thought handrails were black , but clearly not on your photo above . So my memory is liable to play tricks on me it seems . Nice to see the green top on the splasher though , which I agree with and which has been discussed on here before .

Regards , Roy.

On 23/01/2022 at 10:55, thegreenhowards said:

Next train to feature is the up pick up goods headed by WD 2-8-0, 90428. I meant to take a picture of the train on the viaduct but seem to have only managed the video so you’ll have to look at that to see the whole train arriving.

 

Once it arrived at the station the rear of the train is left in the up lay back.

 

Once I got into the shunting, I realised that I hadn’t run the pick up since I ballasted the ‘pick up’ side of the station. One point was jammed solid even though I swear I checked them all after ballasting. And another had a broken wire from when I tidied up under the baseboard meaning it didn’t fire at all.

 

Anyway, after a days pause wile I sorted that out, the pick up duties were performed. Here it is picking up the empties.

 

 

Having dumped the empties back on the rest of the train in the layback, The full coal and vans/ open for the goods shed we’re then left

 

.and the train reassembled ready to depart from the up lay back siding.

 

The video shows the train crossing the viaduct and then one of the shunting moves. 

 

Any comments on the operating procudeures for the pick up would be appreciated.

 

PS. Sorry about the duplicate post yesterday. RMWeb seems to be running very slowly for me and I must have hit ‘post’ twice.     I will delete the duplicate when it speeds up.

 

 

 

I reckon you've got the wrong headcode for a pick up goods . It should have one lamp over one buffer , but I'm afraid to say I can't remember which side ! The headcode you have used is for a through frieght not calling en route ... or something worded like that .

    Regards , Roy.

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Ian,

 

It's interesting that of the dozens (scores?) of BR green locos you've painted for me (mostly ex-LNER/BR Pacifics with eight-wheeled tenders, those tender fronts are black in the main; I think a couple of more-recent ones are green). Does this represent a more-recent finding?

 

I'm not complaining at all - the painting is wonderful. Any I've painted myself (not many in comparison) have black tender fronts. Geoff Haynes also paints the tender fronts black. 

 

Since I own so few RTR equivalents, I can't say which colour their tender fronts are painted.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Good afternoon Tony ,

    Regarding tender fronts on green engines in my time I am pretty sure they were green . Well I'd say pretty certain . Unless my old memory fails me .

   Regards , Roy

16 hours ago, drmditch said:

Re: Locomotive Coal

 

My coal, both for locomotives and wagon-loads, comes from my present garden, and my last one.

Both properties are in what were County Durham pit villages.

I also have a lump or two picked up on Northumberland beaches. (The meaning of 'seacoal' has changed a bit over the centuries.)

 

Although this may well be 'steam coal', I have not heard of West Durham coal being used for main-line locomotive purposes.

The NER negotiated it's coal supply carefully, although I am not sure how it accounted for it's transport costs relative to the pit-head price.

I have never read about how the LNER/NEA managed it's coal supplies.

 

I think (can find reference if required) that the NER/NEA used coal from Ryton Main for locomotive testing, as in the comparisons of 4-4-2s in the 1920s.

This was probably a great treat for the NBR engines!

 

In loading tenders/vehicles I use either PVA or 'superglue', but I prefer something which does not dry matt. I like some surfaces to catch the light!

 

I do try to vary tender loads. Some are full, as if newly coaled, and some are getting a bit empty!

 

It doesn't seem to be my day for taking pictures, (I will try to replace these tomorrow)  Apologies for poor photography, but here are two Q6s, one from South Shields and built in Durham, and one from China  and modified in Durham!

 

Annoying that someone has obscured the window glass!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting article . All i would say is in my time in the 50s/60s I can't ever remember tenders being empty of coal at the back .. They would always be topped up long before that . It's a different matter these days in preservation days . I often see on models these days tenders with coal loaded just at the front end and it don't look right to me .

Regards , Roy.