ROY@34F

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm not sure where the picture was taken, Roy.

 

One of the late, greats in the hobby (David Jenkinson) once said of the photographer (as he was preparing a book featuring the guy's pictures) that he was a brilliant photographer, indeed, one of the best, but that he was utterly useless at writing captions - wrong dates, wrong locations and even wrong locos at times. Obviously, I won't mention his name.

 

Despite your reservations about your A3s, they're both 'yours' in the real sense of the word, especially 60046. You've made/modified both, and that's the most important thing. I commend you.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thanks Tony ,

I must admit I think you are right to doubt where  60533 is in the photo . I don't think it is Grantham now , indeed I'm sure it isn't as I can't explain the construction and chairs in the foreground . So I apologise for that and I don't like to think I've misled you or anyone else . 

Regards , Roy .

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Roy,

 

Could it be a Stanier 8F in the prototype picture of 60533?

 

I've seen shots of that class working on the main line south of Grantham. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

It could be I suppose Tony . Both engines look to be on "london road" at Grantham don't they and facing south .  Which of course is where prepared engines were placed .

But the way I can now se quite a few things wrong with the two A3s of mine recently posted . 60046 looks like the cab side numbers are too low , and the valve gear is not good , mainly the radius rod is far too low down the radius link into full forward gear . And as I said the dome is too high . It must have been built about 40 years ago though .

60047 also suffers from being too far in gear and it looks like the drivers side eccentric arm leans the wrong way (Hornby engine) . But when moving you can see the front end piston valve linkage moving a mm or so . I like fiddling about with such crazy ideas .

Regards , Roy .

20 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Roy,

 

I think the A3 picture you've posted is of a modified Hornby one.

 

This is your Pro-Scale one...........

 

 

 

As running on LB some years ago (it must be a while ago - the Bachmann Mk.1s still have their roof ribs!). 

 

It's one of the few fitted with a streamlined non-corridor tender. 

 

Speaking of tenders, I'm afraid your HAPPY KNIGHT has the incorrect type (as originally supplied by Wills - beading, turn-ins at the front and too wide; the fault of Roche). 

 

Here's the prototype........

 

 

At Grantham according to the notes, in 1958. However, how common were Stanier Fives at your depot? 

 

Note the incorrect right-facing BR lion on the tender.

 

Rob Kinsey and I built 60533 between us (from a Crownline kit, but with a DJH cast metal smokebox/boiler/firebox) for service on Stoke Summit...........

 

 

 

Note the rivets on the tender.

 

Ian Rathbone painted her. 

 

 

And it now sees regular use on Little Bytham (though this was taken a few years ago as well).

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

 

 

Tony ,

  Yes of course you are correct . That is a modified Hornby A3 (60047) and 60046 is the pro scale A3 ( I think the dome looks too tall by the way )  I remember it on L.B..  Incidentally the photo of it you posted to me that day was quite small and wouldn't enlarge . Don't ask me why , as you say , these computers are a mystery .

I don't recall ever seeing a Stanier Five at Grantham . In answer to your question , I hadn't noticed that !

Regarding my 60533 , well I'll live with the tender as it is , but thanks for your info and reply . It still runs fine with it's old triangle chassis . Though as I said with Romford wheels .

Regards , Roy .

47 minutes ago, ROY@34F said:

I did the same as you Tony . But I glued mine together , ugh , originally A.H. Peppercorn , but in later years rebuilt and soldered together , repainted and lined with HMRS transfers , proper dome , romfords and comet valve gear . Scratch built multiple valve regulator and re numbered / named 60533 Happy Knight , a grantham engine in my time . I'm not sure whether it's the correct tender , but that doesn't really bother me . 

I have tried to upload a photo but it doesn't look right to me . It won't enlarge I don't think .  It's the reason I rare post any thing , 'cos something always goes wrong ... arrrgh

Sorry folks I even managed to get the wrong photo . This is my pro scale A3 . But I think I have managed to load  Happy Knight .

19 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Mention of Wils kits on top of old Tri-ang mechanisms prompted me to dig out pictures of one example I still have. 

 

 

In the early-'70s, when the notion of building working mechanisms was still daunting to me, by building a Wills kit to go on top of a Tri-ang chassis at least one obtained a 'runner'. This old thing originally retained its Tr-ang wheels (with flangeless centre drivers!). I immediately considered myself a 'scale modeller' when later I bushed the chassis (including the gearwheel, which was Araldited in place on the axle!) and fitted Romford wheels; then, made Jamieson valve gear for it. When built, it had the Wills tender (beading on an A2 tender, with  turn-ins at the front, no rivets and corridor tender width?). A few years later I built a DJH tender for it. 

 

My painting of it is 'of its day'. 

 

 

Despite still retaining its original XO4, it still sees service from time to time on LB. 

 

When I first built it, I used the dome provided (a 'banjo' type - Mr Roche, Oh dear!).  The multiple valve regulator gear was scratch-built. 

 

As can be seen, down its 45+ years of existence it's been 'improved' piecemeal, but only up to a point. 

 

 

For my Crowood book, I used it as a comparison with a Bachmann A2 (which I detailed/renumbered/renamed). Quite a difference!

 

Does anyone out there have examples of Tri-ang-powered pieces of antiquity?

 

 

I did the same as you Tony . But I glued mine together , ugh , originally A.H. Peppercorn , but in later years rebuilt and soldered together , repainted and lined with HMRS transfers , proper dome , romfords and comet valve gear . Scratch built multiple valve regulator and re numbered / named 60533 Happy Knight , a grantham engine in my time . I'm not sure whether it's the correct tender , but that doesn't really bother me . 

I have tried to upload a photo but it doesn't look right to me . It won't enlarge I don't think .  It's the reason I rare post any thing , 'cos something always goes wrong ... arrrgh

In my days I always had a bottle of ready mixed lemon squash in my bag . and usually we would mash one or the others tea in the can , and  share it .Then later in the day mash the other mashing. You always knew where the opportunity would arise . We used to have a measured amount of tea in a little tin and sugar in another , as some drivers did't have sugar . I had a BR cup and washed it in the bucket filled with the slacker pipe when nearly home , and we could was our hands too with some BR soap  !  And as someone else has said , you would know where the pubs were if you knew you would have time to sink a jar or two . I don't remember about salt tablets ...not so mollycoddled as that 60 years ago ! But there would be salt on your home made sandwiches .

I remember engines from Newcastle would often have quite a few empty Newcastle Brown bottles in the tender cupboards .

Quite honestly I always thought it hotter harder work cleaning fires on the ash pits in the loco , than out on the road where you could get some fresh air on you ...sometimes very fresh  !

Regards , Roy

25 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Roy,

 

Were there doors on the tender then, Roy? If so, there's still a gap, unless they're open. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony , There weren't any on the A3 tenders . On the A4s (and the A1s I think)  , I reckon the tender doors were attached to the side sheets similar to the cab side ones . 

You also mentioned the rubber sheet between cab and tender on A4s and A1s ?  I don't remember seeing any where they had been ripped open with a shovel , but the cab roof vents were handy and  often open .

This was all a couple of pages ago .  I can't keep pace with this popular thread of yours .

Regards , Roy .

17 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Many thanks,

 

Cab doors? Yes, you're probably right but their closure would not be universal, even at speed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No stopping here as 60054 is well notched up on the southbound climb to Stoke. Cab doors not even half-closed.

 

 

Stationary, but cab doors almost wide. Locos didn't normally change crews at Retford, so why open?

 

 

Locos/crews did change at Grantham, so is this the reason for the doors being open?

 

Covers between cab roofs and tender fronts on A4s. Yes, almost universal, but I have heard tales of fireman putting a shovel through them in very hot weather.

 

My problem is that, on a model, they never look right because they cannot be attached to both loco and tender, as they were in reality. 

 

Even on the real thing, they could come adrift.........

 

 

Crumpled on 60028.

 

 

And flying off on 60030. 

 

I know some other Pacifics had them.........

 

 

But not this A2/3.

 

I think the principal problem with cab doors and cab/tender coverings is that we ask our models to go around ridiculous curves (in scale) compared with the real thing. Cab doors can catch and cause derailments (unlike on the real things, where they'd just be ripped off if they interfered with each other) and the cover would just be torn to shreds. 

 

I think they're details which, in the interests of pragmatic good-running, I'll pass on. 

 

Two observations, if I may? The cab eaves below the rainstrip in BR livery were painted black, not green, and there should be no 'line' where the streamlined non-corridor tender sides curve over at the top.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tony , I think you're wrong about the cab doors . On your three photos of the A3s , if the doors were open they would be at 90 degrees to the cab sides , and you would  not see so much of the firehole door .  But they look to be closed to me because when closed on the A3s , they settled in the closed "notch" at an angle a bit outward pointing as opposed to parallel with the cab sides .

I think the A4s had a door on the engine and one on the tender which overlapped when closed and held closed by a looped latch over the top , allowing them to slide over one another but stay closed .

Regards , Roy .

5 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

I'm sure it's a typo above but the track inspector (if that's what he was) is walking in the "FOUR foot".  To properly see and inspect all fastenings, you really have to; at least he was facing any oncoming train.

When I did my first PTS over 20 years ago, my practical assessment was in Shoeburyness carriage sidings.  Immediately after I'd described a safe walking route from A to B, a train driver walked past and broke every single rule or good practice I had just described (stepping on rails/sleepers, walking round the end of a parked train onto a running line etc.).  Sometimes the experienced men are the ones who get too blase and have the accidents.

Yes of course Northmoor , I should have said four foot . Thanks .

Roy.

My two penny worth about the photo of Merlin on the "Lizzie" . Looking at the loco exhaust I don't think the loco has stopped / broken down , as suggested , and that isn't a footplate man in the down road 6 foot necessarily , as someone said it's more likely a p/way inspector . And I don't think it out of place in 1960- ish to be walking in the six foot so long as he's facing oncoming traffic . As for the coal , well as TW said I believe , it wasn't unusual to have quite a lot of coal left in the tender on arrival at KX . Remember the non-stop engines were carefully selected , not long out of plant overhaul and tuned up to to be in tiptop condition , and I recall at Top Shed any big lumps of coal ware cracked when coaling up , and on preparation the fire built up well in the back corners and then the tender topped up again before leaving the shed . 

Regards , Roy .

23 minutes ago, Clem said:

Hi Lloyd, 'Bug cars' ... definitely! .. or sometimes, just 'bugs'. The year or two before it was often an L1. I particularly remember that section from Bottesford to Allington when we always seemed to go like the clappers! It wasn't always an L1 though. I remember going for the short trip from High Level to Victoria behind 61821 and I even took a photo of it with my brownie 127. Unfortunately, that photo has been lost for all time, much to my regret.

Yes Clive , I think it was about the end 0f '62 when steam finished . I remember sometimes going to Derby and back with L1s or a B1 (luxury compared to the L1s) , but not one mention of Derby jobs in my 1963 diary (unfortunately the only diary I saved of my Grantham days , to my everlasting regret)

Regards, Roy.

Tony , I have found a photo of Gonerby tunnel mouth .  It's the east end (Gonerby end) , but it may be very similar to t'other end . What do you think ? Any help to Jessy ? Looks fairly recent with the 30 mph limit for the right turn of the new chord ahead , 

Hope to load it   !

Regards , Roy .

50 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Roy,

 

Great to meet you today (at two metres, of course), and thanks again for your help.

 

These pictures should help Jesse in building his Allington Junction project. 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thanks Tony . It was super to see you and Mo . Pat and I

50 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Roy,

 

Great to meet you today (at two metres, of course), and thanks again for your help.

 

These pictures should help Jesse in building his Allington Junction project. 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thanks Tony . It was super to see you and Mo too . Pat and I both enjoyed your visit , and I  thoroughly enjoyed our safari . These two photos are brilliant . Pity we couldn't quite conquer the tunnel mouth . I intend to have a walk over there again and may try going a bit further west to see if I can get view of it . I'm useless at photography but if I have any luck I'll be in touch .

Regards , Roy .

59 minutes ago, CUTLER2579 said:

The A3's left Neasden Shed before it came under the London Midland Region on the 1st January 1958.

The Last one there was 60108 which left on 27/11/1957

                                           60063 which left on 24/06/1956

                                           60050 which left on 24/06/1956

                                           60044  which left on 25/03/1956

                                           60111  which left on 27/03/1955

                                           60104 which left on 26/12/1954

                                           60052 which left on 05/12/1954

                                           60102 which left on 21/11/1954

                                           60051 which left  on 15/11/1953

                                           60061 which left on 13/03/1955

 

Obviously 15E Leicester had a large allocation of A3's and some of them may have outlasted "Gay Crusader" on the GC,but I am not sure.

                                          

Thanks for that Derek . I hope you are keeping well .

On your list I'm sure 60050 , 60111 , 60102 , 60061 , and maybe 60108 came to Grantham . Am I correct do you think ? 

I started as a cleaner in August '57 and I remember all of those I'm sure . I also thought 60054 came from the GC. Is that correct do you think Derek ?

Regards , Roy .

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 Off the top of my head, Tom,

 

The A3s left the GC a year before the regional changes.

 

Certainly when 'spotting on Donny Station in the summer of 1958, I saw both 60102 and 60111 on ECML expresses. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Yes Tony , I agree it would be sometime in "58 . both 102 and 111 were Grantham engines at that time . You know what the nickname was for 111....Nelson , ( one eye , one arm , and one ar$ 'ole ) .

Regards , Roy .

17 minutes ago, Clem said:

Here's a very dark lockdown tale....

 

This is what I call frustrating. And I only have myself to blame. Closing in on completing a J39/1 with a Dave Bradwell chassis. It's quite an involved build and I find most of it fraught with possible pitfalls. But if it goes well, it can be a bit of a rolls royce of a chassis. It's designed for P4 really and in EM for a start it's a bit of a challenge getting the frames narrow enough using the technique in the instructions. Then there's the hornblocks. I find DB's hornblocks do work perfectly well but every time I've used them, I curse the fact that they're a bit of a nightmare to set up using the usual jig method. A dodge I've used is, for the setting up, turn them around in the horn. I did manage to it up on this chassis but retrieved it. Next you have the inside valve gear to manipulate. Again, achieved to my satisfaction. Finally the wheels added and tested for easy of motion. Motor and gearbox tested with rear wheel in... all appears OK. Finally I get to the stage of some trial running and here is the result....

 

 

 

As you can see, it has a distinct side to side 'waddle' (as I think Tony calls it). So is this the fault of the chassis or the springing? ..... No it's entirely my fault for not checking the concentricity of the rear wheels. grrrrr.

 

 

I find nothing more annoying than to near the end of a project, only to find you have to go back a few steps. However it would have been much easier to remedy if the brakes hadn't been fitted already.

 

As you can see (below) it's not a 5 minute chassis build and I do find it quite challenging. But then the thing you least expect comes up and bites you in the bum!

 

Oh well. Only myself to blame!

 

At least you've found the problem with the loco Clem . And no outside valve gear to hinder things . 

That inside valve gear though is very impressive . I admire your patience and workmanship .

Roy .

On 04/07/2020 at 23:46, lincolnshiremodeller said:

Loco and wagon chassis now painted along with the Conflat, and weight added to the brake van. Kadee couplers (146 and NEM 20) are also added.

 

 

And the loco and brake van re-assembled after weathering, seen here on my East Kirkstead layout.

 

 

I also added glazing to the brake van and a shunter to the brake van veranda.

 

 

The loco is seen on shed stabled next to another Lincoln depot stalwart 08102.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Lincsmodeller , Your signal box caught my eye , especially the windows . Is it a kit or scratch built ? Nice looking layout and the close coupling is impressive too .

Regards , Roy .

6 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

That's well worth investigating - what I need to do is find someone who would recognise a transistor!

 

Ah - I find that I have an image of the Walkabout circuit board : -

 

 

I assume that the TRx components are transistors, of which there appear to be at least six.

 

I have a multimeter which has, I believe, a facility for testing transistors - though I haven't a clue as to how to do that!

 

I would love to get all my Walkabouts operational again - can anyone assist with this, please?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Let us know if you have any luck John . I have contacted you before on this subject and would love to have my Walkabout sorted .

Regards , Roy.

56 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

We had similar problems with a number of H & M Walkabouts. A friend who knows more about this sort of thing than I do worked out that it was a transistor that had blown and as it was a type that was readily available, a repair should be a quick job. Sadly, he passed away a while ago, so I can't ask him the details now but if you know anybody who understands such things, you may be able to have a repair done. 

Thanks Tony . I did message one or two on here whom I knew had used the H&M walkabouts , and I read quite a lot of posts about them on various websites , and the general opinion was the slider control thingy being most likely the trouble with no hope of repair . However I will continue to hope someone may one day offer to have a go at it . 

Regards , Roy.

Tony,

Regarding Halfords (Grantham) , I went about a month ago and providing you know what you want , they will get it for you . They wouldn't let you in but had a table and card scanner in the doorway . They are maybe open anyway now .I got some white primer for a lattice post junction signal I am making  up from brass frets . Rather fiddly , takes me ages , especially these days . But as you know , once even separate parts are done , such things are very satisfying . As for lockdown projects , I've had to replace a Portescap in my Proscale A3 with a Hi level gearbox with Mashima motor . also replace one of my trusty H&M Walkabout controllers (which went balmy and would sometimes go to full power out of the blue). So I got a Gaugemaster panel mount with simulation which is very good , but not up to the old Walkabout for the auto acceleration in my opinion .

         I continue to enjoy reading Wright Writes every day . Takes some time as well sometimes  ! We never fail to learn new tricks do we .

Regards , Roy.

1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Thanks Tony,

 

When you find it, I look forwards to the it appearing as a model on LB, perhaps with a suitably burnt smoke box door. Although, I have seen a locomotive trundling around an exhibition layout with the smokebox door ajar, I'm not sure if a prototypical photograph would be found for that one.

It wouldn't steam very well would it .

Roy.

18 hours ago, Clem said:

Evening Roy. Yes it's interesting to compare the WDs with the tinies. Generally, I believe tinies were often preferred by Colwick men to WDs on the iron ore trains to Stanton in spite of the extra power of the austerity. But to their credit, the WDs did put in an incredible amount of work all over the country in those post war years and, being a fairly large cog in 1950s motive power, an absolute must for a layout representing an ex-GN coal carrying line.

 

It's funny, but from the point of view of an enthusiast as opposed to someone on the business end, I have quite a liking for them. Having said that, I still prefer a tiny! Obviously Grantham had the O2s, which for some reason never seemed to travel west of Colwick. Did you work on them, Roy?

Good afternoon to Clem . You are quite right , the WDs certainly played a big part on general goods , coal and iron ore . As you know I'm sure , carting iron ore about off the Stainby branch to Highdyke and then on trains to Frodingham , in my day via Seaford and Boston , often as far as Louth or usually before when we swapped over with the empties  , formed a large part of the work at Grantham . The  work was shared between the Frodingham WDs and our 02 tangos . Again that applies to the few years I was at Grantham . I never saw any other engines than the tangos up the Stainby branch , and I've often said I think I spent more time on on them than any other engine , except of course in my two years on loan to KX Top shed . The tangos were much better riding than the WDs . Well , being a Gresley built engine helps I suppose . Some WDs were better than others of course .

You mention tangos not seen west of Cowlick - well I believe at that time , around 1960s , they were all shedded at Retford , Grantham and New England . I've read it somewhere .

Regards , Roy . 

1 hour ago, Clem said:

... more like dang   dang    dang  .... (fades) ... roughly a musical 3rd or 4th between the dang and the . Jeez what a conversation... I hope I'm not going senile!

 

It's no good. I've tried 3 or 4 edits but the auto spell check just won't do the WD sound. (there should be a '' after every 'dang' but it just cuts it out. 

 

OK it must be a prohibited word - try 'bang bong    bang bong   bang bong'  but with a 'd' in front of 'ang' and 'ong' instead of a 'b'.

Some of them were terribly rough Clem . I've been on them on the iron ore trains and some main line goods . I believe they were only lightly and cheaply built to last a few years for the war effort weren't they  ? other people on here will know the ins and outs of the engineering of them no doubt . But they certainly felt like they were falling to bits sometimes .

Roy .

OK Derek , I will bear it in mind . I know Stuart very well and some of the ladies in the shop .Not sure of the name of the one you refer to , though I know who you mean I think . My wife Pat calls in more than me : well does in normal times ! but not at the moment . We have an arrangement with Stuart , whereby we have paid for our papers for a few months .

  It sounds like you get up to a bit of mischief in there , you young devil .

Take care Derek . Regards , Roy.

54 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Roy,

 

I know both Ian Rathbone and Geoff Haynes have experimented with several tints/shades of BR green. I can put two locos side by side, both painted by the same person, and there'll be differences, despite their both, nominally, being BR green. Geoff has changed his colour recently, to make it slightly-less 'olive'. 

 

But, which is 'right'? When Humbrol used to do their excellent range of authentic railway colours, their BR green was different from Railmatch's interpretation. Precision's was different again.

 

I've been told that when the real things were painted, it was often up to the guy who mixed the paint as to exactly which colour might appear. 

 

Another factor is photography. Though I have two high-end, professional Nikon digital cameras, even though they share the same lenses, their rendition of colour (with the same light source) is different. Subtle, but different. 

 

Anyway, the finish both professional painters achieve is brilliant.

 

And, as for RTR; have you placed a BR green Hornby A3 against as BR green Bachmann A1 at all and compared them? There's a profound difference.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Yes I agree with what  what you say Tony , I think the Bachman engines are better than the Hornby in recent years . But a coat or two of Johnsons Klear brings the colour a lot better on the Hornby engines . I therefore think both brands are acceptable  . It is the olive shades that you refer to that particularly jars with me . The old Humbrol 104 , I think it was , of years ago  looked good I thought . That must have been in the 1960s and 70s . I rebuilt a tender front about 20 years ago for a Hornby A3 and trying to find a green that looked right took some time .  I settled on a Precision GWR pre , or maybe post , 1928 green , I can't remember off hand , and have used it ever since if I need to . I think the only engine I've actually sprayed green myself is my Proscale A3 I built ,  gosh it must be 40 years ago or more . Oh I did also spray my A2 , a Wills kit I made when they were first introduced in the 60s . 

Regards , Roy .