ROY@34F
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Posts posted by ROY@34F
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I've since seen further comments on the 02/4s by Tony and Graeme enlarging the specs correctly. Thanks chaps.
Roy.
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Thanks Tony,
so 63925 would have received the higher running board when rebuilt to part 4?
If I may answer the question. the 02/4s were fitted with a B1 boiler (I forget which diagram),and being shorter, there was a short extra panel on the boiler cladding at the smokebox end, and an extra bracket supporting the front end, which isn't featured on any models I've seen.
They became 02/4s irrespective what ever they were rebuilt from ( 02/1,/2,0r/3. )
I'm sure I'm about right there, am I Tony ?
Roy.
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Well done guys, great show at Newark! Crowds loved it.
Dava
Yes , well done indeed to all the team. Everything was running good when I arrived saturday morning. Every body must be well drilled to achieve that on the first morning.Who cracks the whip ?.. More work been done also since I last saw it ; inc.the buildings on the "western platform", the tall new signal on the down main near the south box stood out , and the wooden hut "classroom" (thats what it was known as) in the loco.
Although a little compressed, the overall effect captures the atmosphere of the place brilliantly. Certainly brings back cherished memories of my time there in the last few glorious years of steam.
Roy.
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Well done Tony, a well deserved recognition.
Yes, well deserved indeed Tony.
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Gosh this thread moves on apace! I've been too busy to catch up for a few days, and there were about 10 pages to wade through covering a range from signal interlocking through coupling systems to Blue Pullmans...all very entertaining and informative.
I'm interested in your oft quoted comments about the (lack of) haulage capabilities of RTR locos. I've found that with a little lead added they pull just about anything asked of them (although my 14 coach 'Aberdonian' rake is a tall order for most things including DJH kits). As a rule of thumb, I find 12-14 RTR cars or slightly fewer kit built cars are fine with an A4, and slightly less with an A3 (as there's less room for lead). I have a Wills A3 on a Hornby chassis which romps round even on the Aberdonian - my most powerful steamer. For example, this standard but weighted Hornby A4 romps round with no wheel slip on my newly completed 10 car Elizabethan rake. Apart from the 2 mark 1s at the back, these are all Southern pride brass sides on Bachmann donors with MJT heavy duty bogies.
I recognise your other reasons for kit building which are certainly all valid - especially if one can build a chassis as well as you can. I must sort out the finish (and early crest) on the A4 above. Do others find that RTR locos are too weedy for prototypical length trains?
Please wish Mo a speedy recovery from me.
Regards
Andy
Andy,
Your certainly correct in the popularity of this thread. I can't keep pace either. Regarding haulage capacity of RTR engines
I have removed the DCC gubbins from my Hornby A3s &A4s , cast lead weights for the boilers and sheet lead in firebox sides, and as you say they will certainly pull anything you put behind them, well anything realistically speaking.
Regards, Roy.
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Tony,
Just in case you haven't noticed.
I've just sent you a message.
Roy.
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It's lovely to see the well-modelled wooden building next to the top/new shed. It had a more vital function than as a shed for lifting tackle, however, because it was Grantham Loco's 'Class Room', a facility used for the training of cleaners and loco crew etc. by Loco Inspectors, and also for the more informal Mutual Improvement Classes (MICs). The lean-to annex at the back was a bike shed. This is gleaned from a large scale plan dating from GNR days, the relevant area of which can be seen about a third of the way down this page on Tracks through Grantham.
For the fastidious among us, the building which was there in the 1950s/early 60s, and therefore appears in Keith Pirt's photos, was a replacement class room in a slightly different location nearer the 'shears' (...or maybe it was the original one simply moved along a bit), because the eastern apex of the turning triangle had to be built right where the class room originally stood (i.e. where it appears on the GNR plan and in the Britain from Above pix). Roy@34F recalls using the [relocated] class room on one of his pages so he'll be delighted to see it on the layout, I'm sure - a corner appears at extreme right of the first picture on the page linked to.
John
Thanks John. Yes I am looking forward to seeing the latest additions to Grantham. I well remember the classroom, and the sand drier; but not in LNER days of course
Hope to see all the happy gang at Newark, all being well and I don't catch the wife's 'flu, a really bad strain it is an' all !
Roy.
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I think Terry (manna) remembers these from his days at the Cross - you could PM him and ask if he doesn't see the post?
I too remember Ashburton Grove Jonathan. Once worked a train load from there with a KX driver on a K3 to Connington tip ; during my time on loan there.
Happy memories. Regards, Roy.
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Tony,
Regarding the L1s, in my experience I also don't recall one between Highdyke and Peterboro'. I'm not sure if I was one of your aforementioned Grantham men.
As for Ian seeing one at Peterboro' in 1958. Well I was working at Top shed from Dec. '58 for two years, and 67800 was a KX engine at that time . I've been on it, worked on it, not as far as Peterboro' of course, thank the Lord, because, as many other reports confirm, they were terribly rough riding at speed. So, what it was doing there, I don't know
Regards, Roy, and all the very best to you and Mo for this new year.
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! have used a lot of Romford wheels in the past mostly without any problems but one 0-6-0 chassis defeated all my efforts to get a free running chassis without any binding. In these circumstances the first place I look is at the coupling rods but I could find no fault there, After puzzling long and hard I eventually found the problem. On one axle one wheel was out of sync with its mate by about 10+ degrees and no it wasn't a wheel problem. the squares on the axle ends were misaligned. Replacing the axle solved the problem. I made d*****d sure I could never pick up that axle again by mistake.
I have (thankfully) not had that happen again.
Arthurk
I've had that very same fault Arthur many years ago, and it was by more than 10 degrees as I remember.
Roy.
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I have read somewhere about a guy who advocates using coloured pencils to add colour or weather plasticard buildings.
I have just tried and it is incredible so much easier than dry brushing.
Where can i find out more details? I have tried googling but cannot find anything
Hi IKB,
What I have done,which looks good to me, is paint your plasticard bricks with an enamel mortar colour. I thin it a bit so that it flows well into the brickwork. Leave overnight to dry well and then with some wet "wet & dry" paper rub the sheet flat , carefully so as not to flatten down too much and obliterate the mortar course. Then of course wipe dry with kitchen roll. This procedure makes the bricks flat and therefore a lot more realistic. Then carefully crayon lightly to your chosen colour.
I got the idea many years ago from an old gentleman at a EM Society show, and he recommended pastel crayons, but ordinary water colour crayons work ok I reckon. It's a good idea to give a quick waft of matt varnish spray to seal the crayon when happy with it.
I treat the plasticard brick sheets before cutting it up; a lot easier I think.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Roy.
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What I have done with some success is, to cut out with a radius cutter the top and bottom of the arch, and then cut the ends of each end brick with a ruler set to the radius point. Remove the arch, reverse it and glue it back in with solvent (just on the top and ends of course) It may help to de-bure raised edges made by the knife blades. It also helps I reckon to lay the plasticard on polythene, to stop the solvent sticking to your worktop.
Obviously it's best to have your plasticard square on the bottom and left side, so as to mark where your windows are. And also to mark the centre line of them to measure the width of the window from. This ensures an arch that is central and equal to each side of the window, which is crucial when you reverse the cut out arch.
Once glued in the reversed arch can be scored for the bricks in the arch, again using a ruler set to the radius point.
I always make a drawing first and then measure from the square side where you want windows etc.
I hope this is of some help.
Regards, Roy.
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Not sure about Bawtry! I am not 100% sure if it was always there but wasn't there a great speed restriction over the viaduct for most of its existence until a major reinforcement in concrete was made in the fairly recent past, around the time of electrification if my memory is any good. There certainly was a severe restriction in the mid 1970s when I first knew the area.
I seem to think it was (supposed to be) 40 MPH over Bawtry viaduct in my time firing around the early '60s. I thought it was due to the unstable, marshy nature of the land just there, but not dead certain. It's a long time ago !
Regards , Roy.
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Normal method of working for terminal / bay platforms in general, when one loco has worked the train in and another then takes the stock out, and according to the rules, was that the inward loco would uncouple from the train and wait ready, then closely follow the departing train down the platform, under permissive working, as far as the platform starting signal where it would stop and wait for the route to be reset for it's own onward move. As such platforms are permissively worked this is to avoid the chance of the loco becoming trapped in again by the next inward working, and if the loco failed to follow it's train down the platform for any reason the signalman had to be contacted for permission to move.
Regarding Kings X, as I understand, the carriage sidings were further out in the Ferme Park / Hornsea areas, the Belle Isle area led to Kings X Goods and the Shed. The station loco yard was to deal with locos on short turn rounds before working back home to reduce congestion with light engine moves through the tunnels, and 'Top Shed' dealt with home locos and others on longer turn rounds
I was on loan to top shed as passed cleaner, from Grantham, firing all of the two years I was there from dec.'58 to dec.'60.
Ken.W. is correct in his first paragraph. The incoming express engine crew would normally get relieved by young top shed drivers and firemen, wait for the train to go by a N2 or L1 engine, always for express formations, to Bounds Green carriage sidings (on the up side between Wood Green and Hornsey), propelled slowly through the washers, and into sidings for cleaning etc. The train engine in KX would then go to Belle Isle right over to the down side , and then forward up to top shed, onto the turntable first of course before disposal/fire cleaning etc.
As Ken says there was a Leeds crew return job with one of their A1 engines . I have been the unfortunate fireman sometimes having to recondition the engine. Involving cleaning the fire, which was very hot and heavy work in the confines of the station loco, and then gradually build the fire up again, coal and water and turn the engine. The A1s were fortunately fitted with rocking grates, and hopper ashpans, which were a godsend but it was still a rough hour or two's bloody hard work and all go once we got in the small loco area. The driver would check the engine over and oil up.
Of course the empty stock was brought into KX by the tank engines and wait for the train to go before the next move on their diagram, perhaps taking another incoming express empty stock out to Bounds Green, or sometimes work a suburban train before or after the Bounds Green empty stock job. There were 2, if not 3 sometimes, KX shunt jobs, which would often involve empty stock workings in their diagrams or sometimes extra trains needed to be dealt with as required.
In my time there I don't recall the crossovers being used at the platform ends.
Empty suburban stock was dealt with at Holloway carriage sidings, on the down side of Holloway bank, or some at Finsbury Park, on the up side north of the station.
Hope this is of interest to you chaps.
Regards, Roy.
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Like the clothes peg painting jigs Jeremy, a few post back...don't let the wife catch you !
Regards , Roy .
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Andrew,
It might well be that A3s monopolised the Saturday workings, as indicated by Arthur.
The reason for the preponderance of Gresley's non-streamlined Pacifics is that A3s will form the subject of my second book for Booklaw, and I have many pictures of them to comment on. The first one (scheduled for release in the autumn) concerns locomotives (of all classes) in detail. I've had a huge amount of assistance in this from Daddyman (thanks David).The A3 book might have been first, but another book on the class has recently appeared.
I showed many of the A3 pictures today as part of my giving a talk to Grantham Railwaymen's Club (actually retired members). I learned as much as I 'taught', and the information will make the captions much more informative. For instance, did you know that in the evenings a set of carriages was propelled from the carriage sidings at Grantham by the train engine (an A3), taking the Nottingham road. Once clear of the points, it then ran (forwards) into the Up main platform, before departing on a Grantham-Kings Cross service. The stock was extremely mixed. Keith Pirt had taken a picture of the reversal and I was bamboozled as to its explanation. I now know.
The problem is (at least as far as finding out these sort of things) is that most of the members in my audience are really getting on. First-hand knowledge (of getting on for 60 years ago) means that has to be the case.
My thanks to those I gave a talk to. They've made the captions much more accurate.
That train reversal you refer to Tony, you also spotted that there was only one headlamp over the right buffer. I reckon it may be that the other lamp is over the left tender buffer , the fireman thinking he'll save his legs a bit by dealing with it when stopped in the platform when its all nice and level going . Another example of slight rule bending that was often done ? Certainly feasible I think .
Thanks for your entertaining presentation at the Grantham get together again . I hope you're invited next time.
Regards Roy.
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Did you have to add extra weight for the loco to haul the 50+ vans and how much weight was required please.
Hello Mersey, I have cast weights in lead and used sheet lead superglued onto firebox sides and anywhere else I could on all my RTR AI,A3s,A4s so as to be able to pull 11 or 12 coaches up about 1in 100 gradients with ease . They weigh about 11 or 12 lbs. What that is in grams , I've no idea I'm afraid !
I have a DJH A1,and a Wills A2 . Both being white metal of course, and are OK with no extra weight I'm pretty sure .
Hope that is helpful for you.
Regards, Roy.
Sorry , that should obviously be 11 or 12 ounces for loco weights , not lbs !
Must be my age !
Regards , Roy .
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Hi Jeremy,
Like Colin Parks above , I too follow what you're up to and rarely comment , but am in awe of your work in 2mm track work . Not that it's my region or period as you know , but have to admire your efforts in such a fine scale with all that complicated pointwork in the Euston throat . A big project indeed . Good luck with it mate .
Regards , Roy .
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Hello Tony,
Regarding brake van lamps on loose coupled trains . If the train is turned off a main line into a slow/goods road the guard should change the side lamp nearest the main line from red to white , so as not to confuse a main line train driver overtaking it .
If running on a main line with a slow road to the side , the lamp nearest the slow road should then be white , for the same reason I suppose .
Therefore , it seems to me , the only time three red lights are displayed is if running on a up or down double track , or of course , a single line .
That's the way I remember it anyway . but 50 years can affect the old grey matter .
I hope you and Mo are keeping well . Hope to see you soon . And I really mean it this time !
Kind regards , Roy .
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As always, thanks Mike.
What I tend to do more these days is find prototype pictures of a variety of goods trains, taken around about the time I'm modelling, replicate those as well as I can and attempt to lamp the locos up accordingly.
Speaking of lamps on model locos (which has been discussed before), little destroys the illusion of reality to me as a model loco heading a train, and the loco carries no lamps. I agree, if any lamps displayed are misshapen, blobby and way over-scale, then what is worse? I've seen some recently which are just that, and they look awful. Worse than no lamps at all? Perhaps.
I presume no signalman would allow a train to proceed unless it were carrying the correct lamp code (and a tail lamp as well).
There is, of course, the exception to every rule. Clearly MANNA is light engine in this shot at York, taken in May 1958. Yet, it's carrying an 'ordinary' passenger lamp code. It's not going to York shed right at this point because it's in forward gear. Has it just come off a local passenger train, is now running forward to clear a road and then will reverse back to 50A? Or, has it left the shed, run through the station and is about to cross over to the Up side in readiness to take out a southbound 'ord' to Selby/Doncaster or Leeds?
Selecting pictures for captioning for forthcoming books, I've just been going through loads taken at Grantham. In almost every case, where a loco change is taking place or has taken place, the locos are displaying Class 1 (A) lamps, whether going forward or in reverse. I've found only two examples where the correct light-engine code (one in the middle above the coupling) is carried in the direction the loco's going and a correct tail lamp (one above either buffer) is carried in the direction the loco's going. Was this sort of thing common practice where locos didn't have to travel a great distance between the shed and their duties?
You've said it there Tony in your last sentence. As long as there's a lamp on each end, it didn't matter where it was, unless you were going a fair way. e.g. light engine from Grantham loco to Highdyke, a frequent move of course, we didn't bother about correct light engine head code. The same applied light engine from Top shed KingsCross to KX station or vice versa. In each case quoted, three signal boxes were involved, so it wasn't just "in station limits".
Rules were made to be bent ! very much so up the Standby branch.
Kind Regards, Roy.
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As others have said Jeremy, for your first attempt at air brushing, that is amazing. Well done.
Regards, Roy.
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Those old style Gem levers are a brilliant solution Tony. I've not seen any before as I can recall, But well done to Ray and co. Just the job.
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Tony, is that the replacement dolly signal in the view of the Hymek, And also of the Hughes 7F ? It's slightly diferent to the others I think.
Regards, Roy.
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Those slide bars look satisfyingly crisp, solid and three-dimensional. Are they part of the new etch too?
Is there a multi-layer expansion link option, with radius rod slotted through, or just the single layer please?
Graeme, Mike may well answer this , but I'm sure the Radius link (as we were taught to call it) is 2 or 3 layered. Mike sent me some etchings a year or 3 ago for my Hornby engines. Theban be made to work properly in gear .
Regards, Roy.
Wright writes.....
in Modelling musings & miscellany
Posted
They are mainly scratch built Tony, though the brass etches were obtained from Wizard models Andrew Hartestone. And the height etc. determined from his LNER kit.
Thanks for the interest. Any other queries , please don't hesitate to ask.
Regards, Roy.