ROY@34F

Looks like Top Shed to me, almost certainly in fact Gents. Regards, Roy.

Thankyou Gilbert, it was certainly a joy to see your wonderful railway. Maybe I waved a magic wand over it & TW, improving the behaviour ! Your photos look good to me, you're too critical of yourself, and having seen it in the flesh, I think it makes you realise what a creation you have achieved, when looking at the photos. Many thanks again to you and equally to Tony. Thanks also to Jeremy for his kind words; hope to see you at the next meeting Jeremy. Roy.

HR104 Tony . Was that the Humbrol green you refer to ? The perfect match , I always thought too . Agree also about cabside transfers . I've tried Fox,HMRS,Modelmaster . Some are terrible . as you say Fings aint wot they used to be . Roy.

Tony , Re. Post 1234 , the A1 photo . Is the front footplate correct ? , or rather the back of it, where the middle cylinder valve cover is . It looks to be curved at the base . Sorry to nit-pick on a nicely built kit , but I thought it just looks a bit wonky . Regards , Roy .

As Tony says in post 1193 , I had a very enjoyable day with him today , and Little Bytham , complete with Mo's hospitality (mentioned before on these pages) Thanks Tony , and thanks for all the "like" thingies Gents , much appreciated . The dome is perhaps a bit tall , as someone said , as is the chimney perhaps ; But it's many years old , and accuracy was'nt so critical then . the same applies really to the valve gear , being in full forward gear , and modelled rather crudely . I try to make it far better on more recent engines . Roy.

Seeing Tony's C12s , I Thought I'd show you my Craftsman kit C12 effort . if I may . Made many years ago , originally to EM , (which I dabbled in briefly) but since converted to 00 . Sorry , but my photography skills are nil , so not up to your quality Tony . I think the wheels are Keen/Maygib , and it is fitted with a Portescap motor/gearbox , which I liked at the time . Tried to weather it ! which just about obliterated the HMRS lining ! But , as Tony says , it gives you such a sense of achievement when it's all your own work . I had my very fist firing job on '7352 , on coach pilot at Grantham , so I just had to make it . Regards , Roy .

Yes Gilbert , I have seen photos of an A4 at Colwick , and there were more no doubt , but did they get there via the Grantham to Notts. route ? Or there may have been special dispensations made . I don't know . Indeed when Alan Pegler owned '103 , or 4472 if you prefer , I remember it going over that very route . But I'm sure they were'nt allowed as a general rule . Another bridge RA9 engines were't allowed over was the sluice bridge at Boston ; again , I would stand corrected , but that's what I've always thought . Roy .

Pacifics and V2s were'nt allowed over the Grantham/Notts. line . They were RA9 (route availability) , too high for that route. I believe it was to do with a bridge or two in the Bottesford area , and the high axle weight of the engines . Someone may know better , but I believe that was the case . I still follow and enjoy your wonderful railway/conversations Gilbert , keep 'em coming . Regards , Roy .

I would like to echo 4479's remarks Tony . Keep trying , and keep sharing your ideas ... always interesting . Roy .

I think your A4 on the "non-stop" looks brilliant to me Gilbert . You've even got "proper" E.R. lamps ! The only thing I would say is that being a Top Shed A4 on this train , the front buffers would be highly polished , Or was this just before Peter Townend's time there ? Roy .

Yes , you're quite right in your assumptions Robert . Indeed , we would go up light to/from Highdyke with a lamp over one buffer . So long as there's a lamp , it did'nt matter where . I remember at Kings Cross , in my days there , bringing an engine to Top Shed , or vice versa , the same applied . I'm sure that was pretty much the same all over , but I dare say someone will shoot me down on that . If going light a long way , eg. Grantham to Doncaster or so , well I think it would be best to put the lamp in the middle on the front , but it could be over a buffer on the back, I'm sure that would be ok. Roy.

Coming on nicely "Robert" , and thanks for your comments on 61070's thread on the LNER web. Strange that I just posted a photo of my bridge when you're in the throes of doing your mock up . I bet it took me at least twice as long to do my lattice work though ! Looking forward to seeing you at Nottingham with your amazing creation . Roy.

Re.the A4 discussion , and the flat cylinder side covers . I improved my Hornby engines by filing the rivets flat and rounding the bottom edge more , and then making some overlays out of 5 thou. brass sheet , punching rivets on , and of course curving the bottom considerably more than the original . Sticking them on with superglue . Being very thin , the brass springs off if you remove the top . On re-fitting , you just have to prise them out a bit to clip back on . I can't post a picture , as I'm nowhere near clever enough ! but I think it's quite an improvement . Nobody's mentioned Martin Finney's A4 . I personally think it is very good , indeed I bought one many years ago , just before Hornby brought out their excellent new version ! so I've never got it built yet...maybe never will , though I would still like to . His version looks good in the wrap-around cylinder area , and I asked him once at an exhibition how the top lifts off . He explained that the cab end is lifted up first , such that it will then slide forward at the cyl. end . So it does'nt exactly lift off at the front , rather slides off forward . Rather ingenious I thought . Thanks for your , as ever , interesting scribblings , Tony . Roy.

Thanks "Robert".I'm really glad to be proved wrong actually.I must have seen the pictures in John's thread,but forgot. Thanks again .That's more or less settled it. Roy.

"Robert", I like your north box,captures it very well;But the windows were 4 panes deep,and on the door end 5 deep,as I'm sure you're aware.As always of course,a bit of compromise when using kit parts to speed things up a bit.I'm thinking of trying to make windows,hopefully like those on P/Boro' North layout,which were made of course by the expert,Peter Layland. Like you,I can't find any views of the box from the rear,but I did't think the windows went all the way across.Just a fair way in from each end,with brick in the middle where the fire/chimney was.It would be nice if someone could clarify this. Kind regards,Roy.

Thanks for answering my query "Robert".All very interesting;brilliant. Roy.

Robert,I find all this wiring business fascinating.I can follow your descriptions of movements pretty well I think.Using language understandable to the common man!;reminds me of the Revd.Peter Denny describing his control methods very logically many years ago in a number of articles in the Railway Modeller.Using the relays,do you intend flicking a switch to fire a series of relays to set a route/signals/track feed.Wish I understood relays a little better,or rather which ones to get to do 2 or 3 or 4 changeovers.Already looking forward to seeing you at Nottingham next year,where I believe you intend taking your North Box board.Your north box looks good by the way,complete with relay room attached;well,I think that's what it is/was? Kind regards,Roy.

I'm another one following your "logic"business "robert",with great interest.I like your down-to-earth,everyday language on the subject. Keep up the good work with railway;fascinating,especially for me of course. Regards,Roy.

I was'nt doing any cleaning by then Duck bird ! thankfully But to carry on ,if I may , with Fat Controllers post regarding slow promotion . Yes it was very slow at Grantham . When I started as a cleaner in'57 , a gang of 4 of us would clean a couple of engines a day , mostly our A3s , above the footplate or smetimes below footplate level , i.e. wheels and motion and tender frames/axleboxes . So we became well familiar with everything . The Inspector would come from New England on thursday afternoons in the classroom , a wooden building on the west side of the "new shed".Bill Buxton was almost always the one who came . Of course we went through the innards of the engines , signalling and the rule book . I used to really enjoy these sessions . We also spent a week with the firelighter on a shift , and I think a week with the boilersmiths . When passing out some 4 or 5 months later I went with Bill on a J6 from Grantham to Colwick , me firing of course , and the Colwick fireman going in the train "on the cushions" , where we returned on another train with another cleaner passing out , Peter (spike) Hughes firing . We had been cleaning together in our gang of 4 . I seem to think Colwick was as far as we could go , as that was the limit of the G.N.section , being midland territory from there to Nottingham Vic. and beyond . Spike had his trip on a J39 I remember . An unforgettable day on the road of course . We then had to see Cyril Richardson , the Shedmaster , individually . I well remember him saying to me that the inspector had given me top marks all round and all he asked me was to tell him rule 55 , which of course was the "fireman's rule" regarding protection of the train when stopped at signals .On passing out I was then "time office runner" on a shift , Fred Banchard was the shift foreman,in "the chair" and one time moyor of Grantham Bill Heath , the "outside" foreman , and my number of firing jobs I think only about got into double figures , until sent on loan to Top shed the following december , and a whole new world , slung straight onto L1s and N2s on the suburban an empty stock in an out of KX , and even "down the hole"to Moorgate . I well remember being on an early morning trip , probably my first , from Welwyn Garden City to KX , in dark midwinter remember . I'd not a lot of idea of the road of course , hit the firehole door a time or two , coal all over the place . you have to get a grip dam quick ! those l1s were terribly rough at speed , but of course you soon get used to things , no choice . Of course on returning to Grantham exactly 2 years later ,the same L1s were then shedded there , and I had a number of trips to Derby on them . I was firing all the time at KX , and very little cleaning on return home , but was not a regular fireman 'til 63 I think . Promotion at Grantham WAS slow . That's all for now folks , hope you find it interesting . Regards , Roy

Many thanks for kind replies Gents.I can't recall Peter Paine I'm afraid.I rather think he must have been before my time,as I spent a few months as Time office runner after passing out for passed cleaner and before going to KX,and I thought I knew just about everyone in the loco. Interesting re.nat.service,the group of'39 were the last.Sounds about right to me.As for cleanliness of engines improving again,well yes,most of the lads were homesick and allowed home.I think all the Grantham ones were back home in 6 months,EXCEPT me.I think they forgot about me,and I was quite happy firing at KX,instead of cleaning or shovelling ash out of ashpits and up into a wagon at Grantham,which is what happened if not firing of course.We did'nt have the luxury of wet pits like New England Gilbert!or a mechanical dredger thing like at Topshed.Indeed at Topshed we firemen rarely had to clean fires even.There was a gang of,how can I put in these "pc"days,coloured gentlemen to do such things. Regards,Roy.

Gilbert , regarding the deterioration in cleanliness of Grantham engines at the start of '59 , I have'nt offered my thoughts so far,as I thought others would offer more feasable answers.However,as you jolted me into action with your PM,I will now tell you my own experience at that time which could well have influenced things.In late Dec.'58 ten of us Grantham passed cleaners were sent "on loan"to Top shed,along with 15 from New England.There was a shortage of passed cleaners at Top shed due to the diesel training program,as of course passed firemen took the place of drivers in training,and more passed cleaners were needed to replace the passed firemen.more on the suburban than main line workings initially,I remember,So it may well be that engine cleaning was rather neglected I feel.Although by the time I was sent back to Grantham exactly 2 years later,there were a fair number of new lads been "taken on",but when they all started I don't know.<br />As for national service,as suggested by someone,it had been gone 3 or 4 years before that.I was 16 in'57,and missed it by 3 years at least,I would suggest.So I'm sure no influence on labour.<br />Equally,the idea that passed cleaners were immune from cleaning is not true.Sorry "fat controller",I'm not picking on your theories deliberately;and as for 1 engine being allocated to 2 sets of men;This practice had been abandoned by '59 I'm sure,at least at top shed.I don't think it affected cleaning anyway.maybe in the cab,but not all over.Top shed engines were cleaned very well of course anyway,especially in P.N.Towneds's tenure,as we all know,even when all main line drivers would drive any of the engines,and others of course.there was no letting up on the pride of the A4s and A3s at top shed.<br />I once had to go for a rollicking off Mr.Townend,cap in hand,of course.I had called my driver back into the shed,and the point blades I had swiched were'nt right over due to a lump of coal I think;the tender therefore bumped along the sleepers before the driver quickly braked.(It was an A4 as well!!!)My fault of course.P.N.T.told me I'd soon be back at Grantham if there were any more incidents.(Just a snippet of useless information I thought might be interesting to some...at my expense).<br />Regards,Roy.<br />

Coming along very nicely "Robert".Your work makes us all a little envious of the speed of your progress.Very inspiring,and I found your take on headlamps particularly interesting. BUT is the North Box facing the right way ? Just a small nitpick. Nice to see you at Grantham meeting last week..and nice to see Tony Wright about again. Regards,Roy.

That's very interesting Robert re.shed history.I've often wandered why the east side was of less solid construction.Although I could'nt have said exactly what it was made of,I knew it was'nt properly done in brick. Keep up the good work;it's lovely to see the old place re-created so well. Regards,Roy.