ROY@34F

I'm glad you mention the variation in the BR green Tony . I've often thought some of your engines are of a strange shade of colour to what I remember . I'll not say which . Just my own view . The other topic of ageing , unsteady hands etc. I can certainly identify with . Just have to be grateful to be beyond the biblical three score years and ten and enjoy what we can do . I feel blessed to be able to remember the last golden years of the everyday bustle of steam , and being a small part of it . Keep well . Regards , Roy .

Before I read your comments Tony , I thought that looks like Grantham , and the pile of coal is interesting . But it's more the back of the coal space that was always full that is noticeably missing on many model locos . Regards , Roy .

Tony, One thing I noticed on the pullman photos . Nothing to do with what you're talking about . There's not enough coal in the tender on the model . I often think this on many photos of models . Remember we always filled up with coal on this main line . I can't speak for other areas , but you wouldn't see a tender like that in my opinion , even if the engine has come through from Newcastle . Regards , Roy .

Thanks for your reply and all the photos of 3987 , certainly brings back what seems like more carefree times . Re. the questions you ask : Well it wasn't a necessity to have a tablet catcher up the branch , and you are right , it was only GNR tenders fitted with them . The 4 engines so fitted were 3929/30/31&32 . All 4 were right hand drive , low running plate with short travel valves , side window cabs , and I think all had the B1 boilers and therefore 02/4 class . Have I got that right ? The gadget to the left of the tender is a "stop board" with a lamp in it . though it doesn't seem like it . When coming back to Highdyke with loaded wagons it was a requirement to stop there and the guard would pin down half the wagon brakes pretty tight , as the engine and brake would never hold them down the 1 in 40 bank . he would then ring a bell near the trackside close to the brake van , and wait for the signalman to give a couple of rings back for us to proceed , signalled to us by the guard . That's what I am watching out for in the photo I reckon . There is another photo of the same time in "Tracks Through Grantham" thread under "Grantham engines /The 02s " , but Colin Walker was stood at track level looking up at the tender and the guard at the top busy with his work . I don't think I'd spotted him at that point ! The disc up the embankment on the right of the engine I think has been stuck there to help drivers of left hand drive engines , as in this case , where to stop . You will no doubt notice the lamp on the front of the engine ! Rules were bent . Not just up the branch neither as I've mentioned before . I got the date wrong in my earlier post . It was actually saturday April 6th , 1963 . (I still have my diary for that , my last heartbreaking year) . I was rostered all the week on that job with Driver George Coy , but we had 63931 mon. , tues &fri. I was put on a different job wed. & thurs. Interestingly on a diesel railcar diagram (I think there was teething problems with them) . I was on 61392 both days and went from Grantham to Lincoln and on to Retford , and back by the same route . I had three different drivers each day , but stayed with the engine all the time . An unusual arrangement ! Thanks again for your photos Tony . Pat and I are quite well thanks , as I hope are Mo and yourself . Regards , Roy

Tony , In your post yesterday . about 20 hours ago , one of the 2-8-0 photos was of 02/3 63987 on L.B.. Well if I can ! , I will attach a photo of myself on that engine approaching the bank down to Highdyke on the Standby branch , with loaded iron ore tipplers . Taken by Colin Walker in july '63. I may have posted this photo before . Not sure . Regards , Roy . .

Phil , My servos are HK5330 . ultra micro digital , (currently £3.30 from Hobbyking ) 4 1/2 to 6 volt. which is a requirement for Megapionts I believe . Dave at Megapoints uses them on his demos at shows and on his website . they are very good and have bounce for the upper quadrant signals . So they are not the same as the ones you asked about . Regards , Roy .

Phil , I'm sure they are the ones I've got in the attic to try , where my layout etc. resides . Got mine from Hobbyking some time ago (the HK number stands for that I believe) , and they were cheaper than Amazon I'm sure . I'm now building the signals for them , but using Megapoints gubbins , which I get on well with .Dave at Megapoints recommends those wee servos . Regards , Roy .

Tony , Regarding the B1 tender fire iron tunnel , as I noticed you asked for people who will know to comment ; well I should know . I worked on them enough , so I thought I'd better comment . But I can't for the life of me remember where the fire irons were kept . If there was a tunnel and it was the same side as the driver I did think that a bit odd , as if you needed to pull a pricker out for instance you 'd have to be careful not to clout him on the back of the head ! But I assume Hornby got it right . Keep safe . Regards , Roy .

Tim, I have just reread you post where you say your A3 is inside admission and I rabbit on in my reply about all that . So my sincere apologies . Roy.

Thanks for posting that Tim . A nice bit of film about the valve gear . It's obviously a model live steam loco . as it is "outside" admission , (and most likely slide valve , which is easier to maintain in miniature engines) , evident by the "wrong" lean of the eccentric crank . and also the joint of the radius rod with the combination lever is below that of the valve spindle joint with the combination lever . this would be the other way round on a full size A3 , which is an "inside" admission engine . Outside admission simply means steam is admitted into the cylinder from the outside end of the valves movement (usually old early slide valve engines) , whereas all modern engines using walchearts valve gear used "inside" admission & piston valves , evident by the more familiar lean of the eccentric arm and the arrangement of the radius rod/combination lever joint being ABOVE that of the valve spindle /combination lever joint , where of course steam is admitted between the two piston valves , "inside" the two valves . Steam is exhausted "outside" the valves on a inside admission engine . The radius link or expansion link , appropriately called as you say controls how much the valves move and therefore for how long steam is admitted into the cylinder . i.e.. in full gear forward or backward , with the radius rod at the bottom or the top of the link , steam is admitted to the cylinder for 75% of the pistons travel , the valves moving the maximum amount . By "winding up" the gear , as we used to say , you reduce the time steam is admitted , as required , to maintain the speed and use less steam of course . During the piston stroke the steam expands as you say , so saving steam again .....and keeping the fireman happy ! I hope this makes sense . I am no expert by any means . Just have fond memories of my days as a young fireman , and trying to learn as much as I could about the engines . Regards , Roy .

Your description sounds spot on Tony . I agree with all you've said and you've explained it far better than I could . You had a good tutor and friend in Malcolm . I remember many interesting conversations with him . Regards , Roy .

Andy , The drop link or crosshead arm (as we were taught) definitely is fixed to the crosshead and doesn't wiggle about . Regards, Roy.

Tony , I was referring to the actual photo where the crank pin is at TOP dead centre where the return crank or eccentric arm/crank (as we were taught) is therefore at 7 o'clock on the RH side , and at 5 o'clock on the LH side , or thereabouts . Actually 5 o'clock & 7 o'clock is a bit out I reckon , 4 or 4.30 & 7.30 . or 8 would be better . You're quite right of course if the crank pin is at BOTTEM dead centre , the eccentric will be where you say , roughly 10.30 on the left side . What may have been confusing was when I said the eccentric follows the wheel crankpin position by 1/4 of a turn plus a bit (for lap and lead steam) . This applies wherever the crankpin position is , the eccentric follows it . That is with wheels the rotating forward . Hope that makes sense . Pat and I are quite well thanks Tony . Regards , Roy .

7 o' clock on that side Andy , 5 o'clock on 'tother side , as you look at it . The eccentric arm follows the crank pin by 1/4 of a turn + lap & lead , going forward . Somebody might correct me on this , but that's how I remember it . Sorry for butting in here Tony . Regards , Roy .

Tony, May I offer a little in the way of critical observation on 60156 . The tender sides : should they not follow the rounded shape of the back of the tender and the front end as well of course . I thought it just looks more of a rather shallow angle in your photo . Or is that how it should be ? Regards to you and Mo . I hope you're keeping well and clear of this awful virus . Regards , Roy .

Looks quite good that Gordon . re. the space top left ... remember you need the running foreman's office , mess rooms , oil/general stores , may be a fitting/ machine shop . and a sand drying house . And what about a water softener , water tank . I'm sure you could easily use the space up Hope you can get a solution you'll be happy with . Roy.

OK Mike, but I'm not convinced . The photo of Bordesley shed looks about 100 years old . It certainly was very rare to see ash in pits in front of sheds , in any amount anyway , but maybe in those days who knows . They were used to get underneath for oiling and examination , and inside the sheds fitters would use the pit to work underneath . The photo on the southern in 1947 ... well someone is cleaning the pit out but I don't think its ash particularly , maybe just general rubbish . Regards,Roy.

Getting a bit complicated now Gordon . I'm not computer savvy so can't draw a plan . All I would say is locos should proceed though the various stages of disposal after arrival without too much reversing of direction . They should coal first , onto ash pits , onto maybe buffer stops as you run out of length you have , back onto shed direct OR via the turntable . Or back to points near loco entry / exit and reverse again onto shed . engines could then leave direct from the shed to exit road . in this case the shed would be alongside the turntable and the points fanning out to the four shed roads alongside the ash pits . This is similar to the arrangement at Grantham . I know .... your TT hole is in the wrong place ? or you've simply not got the room . You're maybe stuck with some compromises . But engines should proceed following each other through the various stages if at all possible . It's no one horse stable , this . It's a good sized busy shed .There will be many engines following each other through disposal . I personally don't like to see so many roads onto the TT. as some others have said . I do think though you could gain some width to your plan by reducing the two roads for coal to one . Again like Grantham , the full coal wagons are pushed up a bank beyond the plant and the brakes pinned down , and the operator releases the brake and lets the wagon roll down (one at a time of course) in position for raisng while applying brake resistance by leverage on the brake lever with his shunters pole . when empty they just roll down and pinned down again to the points into the siding . So on your model you could have a few loaded wagons at the top of the bank and a few empty ones at the bottom . I hope this all makes sense . Roy.

Absolutely correct Buhar. Roy.

That looks quite good Gordon . Nice to see two ash pit roads , enough to accommodate 3 or 4 big engines each ? Or another one after the coaling plant as well . As you say , you could do with a turnout to reverse to the shed without using the turntable . It looks like you don't HAVE to use the turntable when coming off shed as all 4 roads converge at least an engine length from the 'table , which is good . The road above the two pit roads : is that for wagons to load ash into ? Or what about putting the ash wagon road in between the two pit roads ? That would look good I reckon . That's how it was done at KX Top shed .. Its just a shame that you can't get back after coaling plant to the shed or pits without using the table . But it's difficult I know . It' surprising the room you need to make a proper looking steam depot . Regards , Roy .

Thanks but I did ramble on a bit about pits . It's just that someone mentioned fires would be dropped on the short stretch between the coaling plant and the turntable , and I thought that's nowhere near enough room for the amount of engines using a depot of that size . In fairness Gordon hasn't stated which are pit roads anyway I don't think . I follow this thread because it is loosely E.R. B.R. and 1960ish when I was on a two year" on loan" stint as a spare fireman at Top shed ( Dec.'59 to Dec. '60 ) from Grantham , and have so many fond memories of those wonderful last days of steam . And Gordon's trackwork is amazing . It's also nice to see something running lately - at last ! and gliding through all that OO-SF point work . I might add that we rarely cleaned fires anyway at Top shed ! There was a gang of ( recently imported ? ) coloured gentleman to do that . Hard working guys and glad of the work no doubt . Regards , Roy .

Alan and Sib Snoo , Apologies , I should have realised . Perhaps what threw me was the fact that Gordon is basing his wonderful layout on the approaches to KX . and Top shed being mentioned . But of course not THE Top shed ! Neither plans are anything like Top shed anyway . I look at model steam loco depots at exhibitions with very little suggestion , if any of ash pits , or not enough . There would always be quite a few engines on the ash pits at any big depots . The hardest work was done there mainly cleaning fires , clambering over piles of ash and clinker , maybe hot , underneath to rake and wash out the ashpan , unless you were lucky enough to have a rocking grate and drop ashpan like standard class engines and A1s. I know !! Regards , Roy .

As you mention Top shed , I hope you don't mind me pointing out , with respect , that's not what happened at Top shed . Tender engines would enter the loco. depot onto the turntable as all tender engines need to turn , with KX being a terminus . Tank engines would take an avoiding road to the side of the turntable . They then proceed to the coaling plant , on to the stops , reverse direction to the two ash pit roads for the fires to be cleaned , ashpan and smokebox emptied . after which they moved on and then reversed back to the sheds or the "back pits" behind the running shed office ,which was generally used for goods engines and some others .The main shed was for the big engines . A smaller shed was used for the Met tanks . Regards , Roy .

Thanks John for your reply . I agree coreless are very smooth , powerful and quiet , so I hope it works out good for you , and that I'm wrong about the suitability of worms on coreless drive shafts . I'll be interested to see what you think of it . Regards , Roy .

Thats for that info John . As I remember , the coreless motors used in the Portescap gearboxes were fitted with the pinion and crown wheel so as not to impart lateral force on the drive shaft , as a worm would do , as they weren't built to withstand it . So is this type of coreless built with better bearing design , or have I got it all wrong , which is likely , I have to say . Regards , Roy .