philiprporter

Thanks Ben-yes that's not a bad idea! It's so densely vegetated that area that a wall will be well disguised so that's probably the answer.

It's just strange that the filler has shrunk there as it seems OK elsewhere and when made the join was so neat it was almost invisible (as it is on the grassed section at the front of the layout). Not to worry though, Im looking forward to planting a few trees this weekend and installing the wall then!

Thanks guys - I had no idea what size to get this backscene made as I could only print out A4 size sheets and stick them together to mock up (see earlier posts) so I'm hoping that when it arrives it will work and not overwhelm the scenery, or indeed have limited impact - its pretty big (3m by 57cm), but I want the trains to be dwarfed within the scene, as they are when you see them from distance in reality at this location - and the height needs to reasonable, as the hill behind the tunnels isn't exactly small on the model - anyway, we shall see!

Plenty of vegetation will help blend in the join between backscene and scenery - there is a lot of it at the real location!

After unsuccessfully trying to stitch images together myself I decided to get a backscene professionally made from my field photographs. Here is the draft image and I'm hoping it will work once its wrapped round the back of the layout! Its a composite of two sets of panoramas taken from a hillside to the north of the railway at Marsden 'artificially' joined, so its not 100% reality, but I'm hoping it will capture the feel of the view you get from the hills around Marsden.

The good news is I have just heard back from Dapol and the model is definitely a prototype, not the final tooling. This means that there is still time for improvements to be made.

 

I have collated and forwarded the collective observations made so far on this thread and they have said they will analyse them against the EP.

That's good news and thank you for doing this - I had emailed them, but what you have done is almost certainly more useful. Been looking forward to this model for a few years now, so hoping it will be worth the wait.

Hi Philip,

 

I had to do some "white water" recently as Paul ("Only Me" on this forum)  asked me to assist with the scenics for the sea on his layout Tormouth.  The layout depicts a coastal inlet, so not quite the same type of water you'll be depicting (salt water at the sea edge, to me, tends to look foamier) but I thought the technique might be of use.

 

In my case the waves were formed in Das clay painted with suitable blue/green colours and given a coat of Johnson's Klear floor polish for a high gloss sheen.  Once this was all dry, I stippled on matt white emulsion using a small brush.  This photo shows the results; if you're interested there are more in the Tormouth thread:

 

photo 1.JPG

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Wow that looks really effective Ben - thanks for posting. I will have a play with some Das and see what I can come up with - I tried using silicon sealant, but wasn't overly pleased with the effect, so this may offer a decent solution,

Thanks, Phil

Thanks for the kind comments everyone - its great to be back! 

Ben - main work left to be done is to get the ground area looking right where the old running lines have been lifted (some puddles and vegetation mainly, but also some work with various grey and brown paints and scatter etc), populate the whole scene extensively with trees and bushes, finish the farm access road area and get the backscene printed and installed. At some stage I also need to pluck up the courage to add the white water to the overflow structure! I may also add lights to the farm buildings and the cars that will eventually be installed on the road so that I have can get some atmosphere running in night mode. 

Once that is all done the signals and various bits of fencing will be re-installed (all items that I kept damaging when working on the layout, hence their temporary removal) and I can then build the lighting rig to get it exhibition ready - I have all the bits and  bobs for this as well as the lights. I was going to install point motors for the fiddle yard, but its such a small space that it doesn't really seem worth the hassle and expense. 

On the subject of space - Ian its 180x103 cm overall, and the scenic section is 158x64 cm. From the top of the hill where the road is to the end of the 'steps' on the overflow structure, all is built to scale from maps.

Some lengthwise compression has taken place to enable me to get the bridge over the canal in - and as per an earlier post (back in 2012! post 52), the lack of a suitable RTR point of large enough radius, combined with this compression means that the Marsden loop doesn't curve smoothly - the small radius point (which was that largest radius in the Peco range!) means the line veers off too fast, so I have had to slew it back round in order to cross the bridge - it doesn't look as bad as it sounds thankfully, but it was either live with this compromise, or start scratch building a point - not something I have the skills for given that this is only my second attempt at layout building and the track laying has easily been the hardest part for me!

I did make one 'quick win' today while tidying up having just reassembled the layout - farm building and small outhouse installed (the latter being a 'ready to plonk' item which looks vaguely like the real thing) as both existed before the layout was packed up.

Not sure why my dry stone wall has gone shiny while the layout was in storage - that needs rectifying! 

Hi Ian and Jeremy - just logged in to RMWeb for the first time in a long time and saw your messages from 2014(!) and realised my last post was in 2012!! Apologies for the lack of reply, but I haven't checked this thread since 2012!

Life took over somewhat in 2012 for all the wrong reasons and so work on the layout had to stop and it was temporarily dismantled - however, I'm happy to report I set up the layout again at the weekend and have done some work today tidying everything up ready to crack on - so I hope to post some updates soon all being well.

Best wishes, Phil.

Thanks very much David - I had been putting off making these cable supports for a while as they are very fiddly, but managed to get in the right frame of mind to do 40 in one sitting!!

I dont know if its because I have managed a few days work on the layout recently (a rare thing), but I almost feel like I am winning and can actually get it finished and maybe even exhibit it one day - we shall see!

Cheers, Phil.

Been going bog-eyed making a whole bunch of these today:

They are the small concrete posts that used to hold lineside cables (up to the late 70's I think) but were left by the lineside after the cables were removed - and they are still there today.

They are small in real life and in n-gauge they are tiny!!!:

These are made from 1mm square section plastic (still overscale but I couldn't go any smaller!) painted concrete colour and the pieces of metal that hold the cable on the real thing are made from tint strips of black paper curved into a sort of semi-circular shape (as best as I could manage) with tweezers - all done under a big magnifiying glass!! Once done they are dipped into weathering powders. Have done 40 now and thankfully thats all I think I need!

You can JUST see some of these from an earlier batch on some of the pictures above. One of those things that nobody will ever notice on the model I suspect, but very noticeable in the real location so I wanted to try and model them.

That backscene really does work with the on-layout scenery. I'm not much of a fan of photo-backscenes normally, I think they tend to have too much foreground detail that doesn't gel with the scenery. Yours on the other hand give a perfect backdrop to what you have created.

 

Can I suggest you make the abandoned tunnels more of a black hole though? The light coming through them spoils the rest of the image in your last photo.

Many thanks for this positive feedback - much appreciated - yes the tunnel ends will be filled in - its one of many jobs on my ever-growing 'to do' list!!!

Cheers, Phil.

Many thanks for the kind comments and helpful advice everyone. I've probably said this before, but positive comments from fellow RMWebbers are a real drive to keep me going with this model - which is never easy given the demands I face at work leaving very little time for modelling activity, hence the rather sporadic updates!

Will fiddle around with Photoshop or Corel Draw this weekend and try to get the backscene done. I had intended to 'fade' it as recommended in multiple articles on this subject, but that would mean a mis-match between the green of the landscaped elements on the model and the green tones on the backscene and the boundary between the two would I suspect, stick out like a sore thumb - and I sort of want the landscape to be imposing and to dwarf the model rather then be 'faded' into the background, as its that landscape (and the resultant sweeping, canted curves) that make this such a great location in the real world.

Cheers, Philip.

Been playing around with a mock up of part of the backscene. Its based on photos of the real location, but getting a full 'sweep' of the horizon at this location to make a backscene 'in one' is tricky/impossible, so I will have to join two sets of backscene images to stitch into one long panorama - so there will be a small semi-fictional section (out of shot in these photos) to make the join - going to have to learn some Photoshop!

Hello Philip,

 

Yours is one of those threads that I always click on with a great sense of anticipation when I see there's been an update... and it does not disappoint.

 

You must be delighted with the progress - the water looks really good and the sense of "place" is really starting to come together.

 

Disguising back-secene holes can be an issue; I would second what's been said above - either a footbridge, or a large tree just in front of the hole to disguise it.

 

On our club layout we've disguised one such hole with a pipeline going over the railway - this was inspired by a canal trip to Mond last year.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Thanks very much indeed for the kind words Ben - hopefully there may be some more progress over the weekend with the rest of the landscaping and I'm also about to start working on the photographic backscene. I have about 40 images to stick together as a test run before I order the real thing - its going to be tricky, as the land modelled is very much higher at one end of the layout than the other and I want a decent height of backscene above the tunnels, without the backscene towering above the lower land at the non-tunnel end - not quite sure yet how I will achieve this!

I also need to sort the white water on the overspill structure - I am approaching this with great trepidation as I have seen modelled white water look pretty unconvincing on some layouts and that structure took weeks to build and get looking right so I dont want to mess it up - its a devilishly complex shape!

Clear bathroom sealant looks the best bet, but my test runs on scrap material were dreadful! I keep putting this job off......!!

Best wishes, Philip.

Got my BR Blue version this morning - a bit naughty of me perhaps, but I gave up waiting for Hattons and bought elsewhere, as there seemed to be no clear message from them as to when they would have them in stock and when they would be despatching them - most unlike Hattons though.

All I can say is its a beauty - it really does have that elusive 'wow' factor and I dont think those waiting for theirs will be at all disappointed. The cab roof issue is really not that noticeable at all 'in the flesh' and doesnt detract from the overall high quality and overall 'right' look of the model, while the bodyside grille mesh is so fine that you cant see that its incorrect while the loco is moving. Will try and post a few pictures tomorrow.

All in all I am very impressed and very happy - thank you Dapol and roll on the class 27, the large logo 56, the 50 and whatever other goodies are in the pipeline!!

Just called Hattons - they tell me the blue class 56 is still 'on order'. Not quite sure what that means, but my experience is that they are usually very fast at getting new stock photographed and on the website and sent out to customers, so this all seems a little out of the ordinary?

Thanks Ben - much appreciated! The top photo harshly reveals a couple of the compromises I have had to make though - firstly, the distance between tunnel mouth and bridge has had to be compressed (all other distances should be prototypical assuming I have translated from my maps correctly!) to fit within the available space and secondly, I didnt feel confident enough at this stage in my modelling career to hand build n-gauge points

As a result, the Peco large radius point is in fact too small in terms of radius, which means the Marsden loop has to be slewed 'back in' to make the crossing over the bridge in the right place - should be a nice smooth curve of course rather than the dog-legged affair you can see in the image!! Doesn't look quite as bad 'in the flesh' thankfully!

Joseph - thanks for your comment - given this, I think I may stick with the Marsden station bridge - at least it has some prototypical authenticity, albeit compressing a couple of miles into a few inches! There will be a large-ish photographic backscene around the whole layout eventually so I hope that will help things.

Courtesy of the Jubilee bank holiday I've been able to do a little work on the layout. The retaining walls and hillside below the Manchester Road are now finished and a new narrow boat installed under the railway bridge. Resin will be poured into this section of the canal in the next week or so I hope. Pics at the end of this. However, I have a question that I hope fellow RMwebbers may be able to help with - on the non-tunnel end of the layout just beyond the bridge the tracks curve sharply round as they had to the fiddle yard. in reality the scene looks like the image posted here (http://www.derbysulz...44marsdenbw.jpg), with long sweeping canted curves, but thats obviously not possible (see pic below for the section of the layout I'm talking about).

I was therefore going to make the scenic break by building the bridge at the west end of Marsden station (and simply miss out the intervening mile or two of track) which looks like this: http://www.nationalr...558-0000004.jpg - although this view is from the fiddle yard side as it were!

However, I am not 100% comfortable with this given the 'open' nature of the landscape show in the first image above and so the only other option I can think of is three holes in a backscene for the tracks to pass through and some sort of painting or image of the landscape on the backscene. I've seen this done elsewhere though and it has always jarred a bit with me and so I wondered if anyone knew of a third option that I am not aware of?!!! Thanks in anticipation of any ideas out there!!

I've been playing with my 85 today and had a go at tweaking the pan so that the head tilts in the right direction. Looking at photos of the real thing the head should have a rod that comes down from the central tube to the stay arm. This should be in the centre of the tube from left to right, the tube being fixed to the head and unable to rotate without it. The tube on Bachmann's pan rotates with the pan arm rather than with the head so cannot be to fix a downrod. As far as I can see Bachmann need to mod the head so that the current short downrod from the pan head (that ends above the centre tube) is made longer with a central hole for the tube, and then continues down below the tube to a pivot for the stay arm.

What I've done is to cheat.

As Cav said, it is possible to move the stay arm from its incorrect position above the tube which causes the head to tilt the wrong way and reattach it to the downrod at the side of the pan that is meant to clip to the small nipple on the pan base to lock the pan down. This results in the stay arm running to one side of the pan head rather than the centre but does make the head stay level as the pan rises and falls. Also with the pan as supplied it will not go fully down without bending the lower stay arm, once modded the pan will go pretty much fully down.

The easiest way I found to change it was to push the centre pin out of the elbow joint. This is quite a loose push fit and will press out easily to the side with a thin length of brass wire. Once the pin is pushed out the whole pan will collapse and unfold in your hands. Now it is quite easy to use a pair of pointed pliers to open up the bend at the lower end of the upper stay arm and release it from its hole in the lower support arm. Having done that it should quite easily unhook from under the pan head.

NOW TURN THAT WIRE (the upper stay arm) OVER, it will be refitted the other way up.

As the reattachment point is lower than the original the wire is too long. The simple solution to this is to bend the top end of the wire at 90 degrees so that where it clips into the new location (that little down rod that comes below the tube and has a tiny hole in its end) it initially comes down vertically for 1 millimetre before bending towards the elbow joint. Once this is done then hook the wire into the pan head, and into the lower support arm. Bend the lower end of the stay arm back to retain it in the lower support arm again and reinsert the pin into the elbow joint. You should now have a pan with a head that stays level, and a pan the will freely go down almost all the way to the stowed position. One drawback of this mod is the loss of ability to clip the pan in the stowed position but personally I'd rather the pan was able to go up than to go down.

 

 

Hopefully Bachmann will soon alter the pan so this mod becomes unneeded...

 

Andi

Really clear and useful Andi - many thanks for posting this - will have a go at my class 85 this weekend,

Cheers, Phil.

Managed to get the proper camera out tonight to show what I think must be the finished loco now in a clear image rather than fuzzy poor light phone pics. Comments always welcome.

Cav

Great photos Cav and even better weathering job!! Can I ask how you make the 'splodge' on the buffer heads? Looks great!

This model is a belter, no doubt about it - and it looks even better weathered - great job Bachmann and great weathering Jim and Cav!

Thanks Cav - will have a go when I get home this evening - presumably its easy enough to glue the pan back on? Yes I like the roof weathering too!! Incredible that these start life with pale grey roofs and yet I always assumed they were painted dark grey/brown when it is in fact layers of grime!

Cav - the weathering really makes it look the part - great job!!

Hope this isnt considered off topic but I can't figure out how to do this: "The pan has also been tweaked as mentioned earlier to keep the head level at all times" - I've tried to figure it out from the various posts but am probably being dim - any chance of an idiots guide as to how to do this?!

Cheers, Phil.