andyman7

Hope the investigation looks to and learns from modern Aviation Safety.

 

Air safety remained stubbornly poor until investigators stopped automatically blaming the pilot and started looking at the systems which allowed, even encouraged, mistakes to be made. The effect on safety was immediately positive and lead to the very high air safety levels we benefit from today.

 

If a mistake Can be made, sooner or later it Will be made.

 

In this case that is a ridiculously tight curve for such a large tram in regular passenger-carrying service. Add a long straight stretch leading up to it and this was quite clearly an accident waiting to happen. Nor do I see the need for it looking at a plan of the track, although I've not been there.

 

Hope the investigation turns out to be a modern enlightened one.

I realise you've made this suggestion in good faith, but in fact the processes you refer to already exist much closer to home in rail safety. That has followed exactly the same trajectory, with a major sea change in the late 90s from merely identifying rule breaking to understanding why rules got broken. That is one of the reasons why (heavy) rail is so safe. The issue I think this will draw attention to is that trams are subject to a much less onerous regime - they are driven on sight in the manner of road vehicles. Traditionally of course trams were basically street running vehicles but modern trams often make use of old railway formations (which by their nature tend to be level and suited to fast running) and this incident will I believe highlight the need to pay more attention to the risks where fast running reserved sections interface with much slower sections.

Yes, I remember that the unit certainly works better with the supply at around 12v. Most Tri-ang models are at risk of flying off the track at this sort of voltage - they are doing something of the order of 130 scale mph by my reckoning. I seem to recall that the oil doesn't last very long at that rate, but it is a long time since I played with one.

 

I don't know how long a filling lasts with extensive continuous running but certainly with the Synchrosmoke units (where the oil is retained in the wadding) once they have a good soaking the oil can be retained seemingly indefinitely - I've bought long unused locos that start producing smoke on the workbench before I've got round to checking the generator 

Was the 25 the only Hornby diesel designed to take a smoke unit

Yes, it was the only one

One of my friends managed to melt the smokebox on a 4-4-0 by isolating only one end of it. While the tender didn't move, the smoke unit kept running.

I disconnected the smoke unit in my Schools when I ran out of fluid; now I can't figure out where the wire hooks up to.

That's because the Smoke unit has it's own pickup for the 'opposite' polarity of the loco; the instructions state that the loco should not be left on live track on their own without the tender for this very reason

You have a point, but it was and is an entertaining gimmick and I have a few Triang locos that are maintained as runners with fully functioning smoke generators. As noted, it is fairly easy to disable the generator to avoid the hassle of keeping it charged in most cases. I find that the earlier Seuthe units seem to be better at 'smoking' but of course the Synchrosmoke one puffs as well. However, to get a decent emission really requires models to be run quite a bit faster than is realistic - so for example Jinty ends up flying around to get up a good head of steam.

Talking of diesels, it's interesting to note that the Hornby Class 25 (dating from 1977) was engineered to take a Seuthe smoke generator - there is a hole in the roof and a moulded rebate in the glazing unit, although none of this was ever referenced in the loco instructions. 

Really not sure about your point re rail contact. Don't think it's relevant in these circumstances. My point is that when a coach leaves the rail it ought to stay up right and unless the conditions are truly extreme it is a design failure if it doesn't.

 

Echoing an earlier post we ought also to be thinking of the driver as well as the hurt, the deceased and their friends and family. Modern day working shifts are such that that fatigue could easily have played a key role in this matter.

 

I'm sure the RAIB will get to the bottom of it.

 

Regards

The forces apparent here are extreme - I don't know if you have used the section of line but I have and what you have is a fairly long straight section of line built on a rail alignment, which goes into a 90 degree curve that makes Hornby first radius curves look gentle. If that curve is taken at high speed the centrifugal force coupled with the pivoting effect of flanged wheels (no opportunity to skid sideways) is going to topple you over. 

It's telling that most witnesses to the aftermath initially assumed that the tram had been coming other way down the slope from Sandilands tram stop and had somehow split the points - it seemed inconceivable that a tram heading from New Addington could end up in that position, but once it was clear that was the case, the sheer violence of the derailment (and horrific casualty count) becomes more understandable.

Of course, they were under no obligation to accept the order and ship hundreds of the things to a shop in Sheffield.

Do we know if Rails have hundreds in stock? They're charging a hefty premium on it, they were £35 when being sold by Hornby (or £15 if you used the voucher).

The note on the Hornby website about relaunching the club has been up there for ages - if whatever they come up with makes financial sense I'll rejoin - if not, I won't.

I have no idea of all the beat combos which have been suggested so far, but as a boy I always preferred the Brian Poole & The Tremeloes version of Twist And Shout to that released by The Beatles.

You might be in a minority there, but it's all a matter of personal opinion. Both are covers of course, the original record was by the Top Notes and the Isley Brothers had the first hit with it.

Lots of entries in this thread for Beatles songs covered by others but of course in the early days the Beatles included many covers in their act. One that is my top favourite is their cover of Bacharach and David's 'Baby It's You' (originally a hit for the Shirelles).

As for a far out cover that (for me) blows the original away, try Cake's version of I Will Survive

Looks rather interesting! This is a building for the future so I'm happy that it's not another Victorian pastiche.

I'm happy to investigate the new offering when it appears. I'm very grateful to Pat, Phil, Brian and Simon for all their efforts. I do find it surprising to what extent some people judge or chuck their toys out of the pram over what is and has always been a free service. I wish best of luck to the MREMag gang and look forward to what happens next. 

Since System 6 track (from 1970) was code 100 and the Nellie locos were in production until the late 1970s any of the later Tri-ang-Hornby/Hornby wheelsets used on them must have been compatible with the track as it was used in the train sets. It may be that the early examples which didn't have see-through spokes, might have had coarser treads.

Triang models were made code 100 compatible from around 1963 so that they could be run on HD 2-rail track. The systems were formally merged in 1965. The standard loco wheelsets exist in coarse and finer flanged versions whilst 1963 marked the move from split-axle to pinpoint axle wheelsets for most rolling stock.

Did you get the Charles and Diana wedding special?

 

I bought one at the time, stored it for blooming ages unmade, then got rid of it in a rash clear-out moment, which I began to regret almost instantly.

 

K

The Charles & Diana one is the only one I ever made - it was the closest that the range ever got to modern image....long lost now but somewhere I have a photo of it posed behind an R075 BR Blue Hornby class 47....

There's plenty of candidates for this award but as a kid in the seventies, the following offering from Life-Like made every other BR blue liveried 00/H0 model a finescale effort by comparison:

Hardly. Just greed.

On whose behalf? Start price was £9.99, it's the bidding that has taken them that high.

I'm looking forward to these because getting a really accurate late 1970s/early 80s WCML rake matter to me - I lived by the lineside during that period and absorbed a huge amount of detail, so for me I am pedantic when it comes to this particular theme. However, I also enjoy collecting and using trains of all eras and my son likes modern stuff, so amongst other models we have a Hornby Pendolino, Javelin, FGW HST etc and I have to say in those cases I'm a bit less bothered as long as they look right. Believe it or not, I'm sure Hornby will still sell plenty of Mk3s because a) they have wider distribution and brand penetration than Oxford and b) although less detailed their Mk3s will be more straightforward to use especially for younger hands than models with close-coupling cams and lots of separate detail. 

These coaches will fill a gap for those looking for accurate Mk3s correctly differentiated for eras and loco hauled/HST and I hope they are a success for Oxford, but I really don't understand some of the posts that almost imply glee that this will put x or y out of business, or the ones that start on about how if Oxford Rail can sell their Mk3s at £35 we are being ripped off by Bachmann or Hornby. The model railway business is tough and good profits are needed to see business survive, I'd like to stick to appraising and hopefully celebrating what Oxford Diecast are doing without denigrating other suppliers. 

Would the Triang Battle Space Turbo Car be eligible?

Apart from the issue of the reservoir (apparently someone from the Ffestiniog did a survey some years ago and concluded it would be much easier to deviate round that than the Llyn Ystradau was!), one problem is the lack of intermediate stops between Blaenau and Bala. The rebuildings of both the FR and WHR benefited from there being stations at regular intervals which could act as temporary termini and as destinations in their own right. Blaenau-Bala isn't so well blessed - it's an 'all or nothing' route. 

It may be 'all or nothing'. but it is a spectacular route...it's always struck me as an opportunity if the right circumstances were to come together.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-Hornby-Central-Trains-Passenger-Train-/331949896131?hash=item4d49c171c3:g:0JwAAOSw0UdXvdHK 

 

A Hornby 170 would certainly be rare.

But actually not a bad price if you're after a 170...

In my case, having abandoned childhood OO to the great "yeah, one day when I'm retired and have a spare room or loft or something" box of wishful thinking, I wandered into a model shop by chance (here in Tokyo) and happened upon an unpowered N gauge model (N gauge rules supreme in Japan) of the train which runs on my local line and thought it would be nifty to display on a shelf, especially as it was dirt cheap. However a voice kept whispering to me about the possibilities of a short stretch of track and something to run on it, and before I knew it I'd acquired a) some Kato Unitrack, b) a Kato controller, and c) a Kato "Kokuden" train, which set me back something like 60 quid in total, which is a sum I could write off if necessary (I wasn't familiar with N gauge at all). Anyway it all worked wonderfully out of the box, and I was entranced by the "Kokuden" train despite it being a very simple model (no lights, DCC, little detailing, turns out it's a rehash of Kato's original model of that class using the original mouldings from 40 or 50 years ago). And the rest, they say, is history.

 

What certainly helped is having Kato Unitrack available - I know it's not exactly prototypical, but It Just Works™, and made the running of trains (rather than the building of a layout) accessible and pleasurable. Call it a gateway drug, which has lead me to the point where I'm contemplating hand-building track for a sub-project not easily implemented with settrack.

 

I'm not sure how that would translate to the British market, but I imagine access to a "cheap" (i.e. at an "impulse purchase" level) and robust starter set of some kind which shows model trains are much easier and more accessible than that abandoned layout of your childhood would help ease people back into the addiction hobby. Errm, and N gauge could do with being promoted as a viable way of building that 8x4 layout you always wanted but don't have the space for.

I think that track is a big impediment to the casual or new entrant at the moment - the Unitrack system (and Bachmann E-Z track) is not readily available here, and conventional set track is really not plug and play - it can take quite a lot of fiddling if you aren't familiar with aligning fishplates and ensuring good contact. Flexi track is not a good start for someone dipping their toe in the water either.

It's a mad world when the box and paper work http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361679233838?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2661&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

could cost you more than the item inside it http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142050952831?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

Al

Well yes, but in reality people kept the model and threw away the box so there are quite a lot more of the former than the latter.......

Here's one for Kit,

 

Came across this photo, To ask a silly question, what's the yellow thing sticking out from her nose?? And no she hasn't got a cold, is it like what you get on planes and helicopters for measuring the speed, (pitot tube).

When they finished building it they found a Triang Battlespace turbo car and noted the yellow rubber tip, which they realised with horror they had left off....

I didn't buy the 73 when it came out mainly because these days the plethora of superdetail models is such that I am no longer in any hurry to add a particular item to my already too large collection. Despite being quite tough on thinning out the fleet it is still frankly larger then I'll ever need. However given that the 73 sits firmly in the BR Blue era, is SR, and an electric loco to boot meant that it had much more justification for my modelling themes than many other models.

In a marathon that probably deserves some sort of medal I read through this whole topic to familiarise myself with what to expect, and at the Chatham show Invicta were selling BR Blue ones (73135) at £99 (I know that they are selling them for even less at the GC this weekend but I'm not there, so that knowledge is academic....).

Based on experiences from the last 16 years of the modern generation Chinese made super-detail locos I am well aware that they are best viewed as expensive adult products that may require fettling in order to use. There is a lot of debate about whether we should pay £100+ for locos and have to fiddle about with them, but I purchase such items on the basis that when I was a lad, if you wanted a super detail model you bought a kit and a lot of extras for the same sort of money and were lucky to get a good looking and working model out of it at the end.  

Anyhow, my example had a few bits floating around in the bottom of the box and googly-eyed buffers which were all sorted out, and runs fine mechanically at the moment. However, one thing only briefly mentioned in the past 70-odd pages is that (like the Western) there is hardly any lateral movement in the bogies. I've a test track that doubles as a sort of fun layout for running things, and the track has some undulation but nothing nasty. The 73 will not make it round the curves without derailing simply because there is not enough lateral slack in the bogies to allow for this. Bear in mind everything else bar the Dapol Western can cope with these curves including current generation Bachmann, Heljan and Hornby, including steam.

It's bought as much as a shelf queen as anything and will no doubt come out to play on the finescale plank I have, but I wondered if anyone else had attempted any remedial action to allow for some more slop in the sideways movement? There is a very brief reference above to someone doing it but no detail.  

What puzzles me is why these even existed...why not just make as a.n.other 4 car EMU.. and attach a 33/1 for the dead sections as required..wouldnt have needed high juice 4Reps that way ?

 

Blue or Blue and Grey.. that is the question..

I'm sure others can give a definitive answer but I believe that the hauling of genuine trailer units on a scheduled basis was more efficient then dragging EMUs off the juice. Whatever the reason, the REP+TC lash up is one of the high points of SR cheap and cheerful analogue engineering.  

I suspect they put 'Special Collectors Edition' on the box just to wind up certain RMWeb readers 

 A much rarer beast is the Lilliput class 81 which I believe is slightly under scale but still a very good model for its time, right down to the spring detail in the wheels and all wheel drive. I managed to get hold of one many years back but haven't seen anymore since.

 

Edit: There's a Lilliput 81 on EBay for £149.

The Trix/Liliput AL1 is properly to 4mm scale - it was originally tooled for a company called Miniature Construction by Liliput of Austria, so was not subject to Trix's odd 3.8mm scale. For my money it is the finest British Outline model railway loco produced in the 1960s - with a decent paint job it can sit alongside modern RTR and there aren't many 60s models you can say that for.

I think with the way Britain has gone the NRM should really be a celebration of OUR contribution to the railway, we did invent it after all!

In the next few years all people will need to do if they want to see a Japanese EMU at the NRM is look out of the window.

We really do not pay anywhere near the attention to our industrial heritage as we should,especially the more recent stuff.

When I go to the former tech centre at Derby it always upsets me that that place was one THE world leader in rail technology, a real product of the 1960s white heat policy.

Now... A few rented offices and the workshops a make do TMD

Understandable, but the original Series 0 Tokaido Shinkansen is an absolutely pivotal exhibit in the history of railways - if Great Britain gave railways to the world, in 1964 Japan gave the world the prototype for what is now the accepted norm for every modern high speed train - the fixed formation streamlined unit with distributed drivetrain. It's not either/or for me because the bullet train in turn drove the direction of both the HSDT and APT.  I do agree that all of these developments deserve exposure - railway history is not solely about pretty steam engines and panelled coaches that the Queen slept in.

Announcement of model on this site - 13.29

First response 'it's too expensive' - 14.12

This is getting very repetitive................