Dave Holt

Hi, Robin. That pointwork certainly looks good and makes a big visual impact on the overall layout. Sounds like you've been beavering away and making lots of progress. A bit of plain track to link it all together and you'll have stuff running in no time! From an initial viewing of the photos, I had thought that the tandem point was actually a genuine 3 way, as the blades all look to come together at the toes, even though the crossings are slightly staggered. Just goees to show one should condider all the available information before drawing a conclusion. Keep up the good work, Dave. PS. A further browse makes me think there might be both a tandem and a 3 way?

Steve, Thanks for the clarification. I've been to Lime Street a few times in the past, but hadn't realised there is the arrangement you describe - an unused platform face forming a siding. Anyway, I'm glad it wasn't some sort of oversight or error in measurement - although I'm sure everything has been checked meticulously before cutting material! Dave.

Phil, I hope larry doesn't think we've hijacked his thread! Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, the 4F's were equiped with short travel Stephenson's gear whereas the Austin 7's had modern, long travel, Walschaert's. Might be able to use the con rods and cross-heads/slide bars from the BM kit, but that would be it. I did start to draw the gear out with a view to getting it etched but didn't get very far. Unfortunately, I don't have CAD and that's definately the way to go, these days. perhaps there's a kind benefactor out there? The real things were let down by having the standard, inadequate 4F axle-boxes and crank pins - which had a tendency to snap off - hence the early demise of these locos compared with the Super D's which they were supposed to replace. Back to Larry's model, hopefully. Any progress with the laborious manual paint removal and re-painting? At least these were very plain locos, so not too many fiddley bits to work round (on the body, at least). Dave.

I must say how much I'm enjoying following progress with this marvellous project. It's one of those inspirational mega-layouts which seem to be under way these days - Ron Heggs Manchester Central and Jim Smith Wright's Birmingham New Street on RMweb and Roy Jackson's Retford (not on here) are other examples that come readily to mind. What impresses most about all these is not just the scale and ambition of the undertaking, but the incredible attention to detail and superb standard of modelling being achieved. Perhaps it's no coincidence, they're all models of real places? I'm particularly enjoying seeing the signals - for reasons that Steve will appreciate! (Those miniature semaphores will be more visible on Delph.....!) One thing which does strike me from the station photos is how close to the platform edge the central roof support columns appear to be and I wonder if this is correct or they not yet in their final position? Looking forward to further installments with eager anticipation. Cheers, Dave.

Larry, I must say I was never very keen on these locos at the time - rather plain and ugly to my young eyes. I'm sure they used to plod past our garden at the bottom of Goddard(!) Street on the old OA&GB. When they were the mainstay of freight at Lees, do you think they ever ventured to Delph. One will on my version! - 49509, I think I've gone for - got the smokebox number and shed plates. I've gone for the Alan Gibson etched brass kit, which does look very good (in the flat!). I've been putting off thoughts of construction till I figure out how best to replicate the inside valve gear. To me, this is a problem with all high pitched boiler, inside cylinder locos like these and the L&Y 0-6-0's. Any way, I'm sure yours will look just great after its transformation into (grimy?) BR unlined black! Cheers, Dave.

Dave, That certainly sounds to be rather a lot of holes to drill! Even with jigs and the BB handrail bending tool it must be quite a chore. I'll have to try to manage with less than 5 brakes on Delph!! Hope you haven't worn your fingers out with all that twizzling. Dave.

Hi, Robin, Yes, the plain track is C&L flexitrack. It's perhaps a bit early to see if there will be any adhesion problems. It still looks OK after a week or two! Mind you, I did use a primer specifically intended for applying to plastic (car bumpers, etc), so perhaps it will be OK. I wonder what type of primer the Slattocks guys used. I can mount individual boards on the dining table (!) and had them on the garden table for painting - it's only when I connect two or three together (to do cross joint track, etc., that they are on the floor. Ultimately, the boards sit on top of a support frame which has variable height legs, but i haven't assembled any of these yet. That would certainly enable the boards to be set at a good working height. I really need to clear the garage so I can move everything in there (after making it habitable. I'm going to Wells next week-end, are you? Cheers, Dave.

Robin, I've posted 3 photos on "Delph" showing the track primed, as described above. It certainly has resulted in a common base for both ply and plastic sleepers. Haven't started colouring the sleepers yet - not sure whether to brush paint individually or get the air-brush out and spray the lot. Thanks for the colour suggestions. I've also read somewhere that RailMatch do a "sleeper grime" colour, which I might investigate. Regarding Leamington (it's a long way off, yet), you're all very welcome to pop round and have a look at Delph in the flesh, so to speak. Cheers, Dave.

Dave, These are looking very nice. Although my locos are generally compensated, I must say I'm convinced by springing for wagons rather than rocking w-irons. Your spine jig is a good idea to keep the axles square to the chassis and parallel to each other. Brassmasters also do an axle alignment jig that fits between the wheels on the plain 2 mm diameter axle. Dave.

Not much actual modelling progress to report, but it's been a while since the last layout update, so here's the latest. After spending what felt like weeks on my hands and knees - the major drawback with having the base-boards on the lounge floor! - grinding off rivet heads and applying cosmetic chairs to the ply sleepers at the base-board joint, I have painted the whole lot with grey primer, prior to applying the actual sleeper and rail colours. I got this idea from Iain Rice's book on fine-scale track. The problem is that the ply sleepers used at the joints and in the pointwork are different in both colour and texture from the moulded plastic sleepers in the plain track. The normal wood dye/staining method for ply sleepered track would be very difficult to match with the painted plastic track, so....everything is given a coat of aerosol grey primer to even it all up and then if can all be painted with the same range of colours and apart from very close inspection revealing the proper keys on the cosmetic chairs, it should all blend together. I think you'll agree with the effectiveness of this approach, as shown in the attached photos. It really is hard to see which are ply and which are plastic sleepers. I used Halfords grey plastic primer. It will be interesting to see how durable it is. The eagle eyed will spot that although I tried to be careful to mask of items not being painted, I have managed to get a bit of primer in several areas where it shouldn't be, although it's not much and should be easy to touch up. First a general view over the station and coal drop boards: And now a closer view at the base-board joint (staggered to fall between sleepers on the diverding tracks) and at one end of the platform release cross-over points: As you can see, I haven't made any attempt so far to represent the point blade tie bars. These will be non-functional and, bearing the shallow viewing angle which will result from the high track level on the completed model, I'm thinking along the lines of just dummy, fixed stretchers not actually attached to the blades at all. I also have to figure out the best colours of paint to use for the sleepers. These will have to be individually painted, I think, so another long laborious job in prospect. Well, it won't do it itself, so I'll just have to knuckle down.... Dave.

Robin, The track-work is beginning to look very nice indeed - lovely flowing curve down the main line and through the points. It looks like you've got a rather interesting base-board joint running through on of the points - it looks to pass through one of the sleepers at a fine angle (I avoided this on Delph by having staggered joints which pass entirely between sleepers across all 7 tracks, even though the joints aren't necessarily square to the track.) I'm also intrigued that you are dying the wooden sleepers and look forward to seeing how you match the appearance with painting the plastic flexi-track. I've just started to paint the track on Delph and have followed Ian Rice's recommendation to first paint everything with grey primer (I've used Halford's plastic primer) to give a common base colour and texture to both ply and plastic sleepers, prior to applying the actual sleeper colour (although I'm not really sure what colour this should be!!! - I'd welcome you suggestions on this.). As you say, fitting cosmetic chairs is a real pain. I found it necessary to grind away the whole of the rivet head outboard of the rail in order to get the chair halves to fit into the rail properly. Sounds like you've had a similar experience. I'm sure the original plastic chairs were moulded with a recess underneath that was big enought to fir over the rivets but both C&L and P4 Track Co current products don't fit without a lot of work. Looking forward to seeing continuing progress. The onset of track laying is transforming the layout - superb as the building are in their own right. Cheers, Dave.

Coming along nicely, but can I suggest you take a look at the shape of the main drive shaft - in particular the way you have them turn upwards near the cylinders? If you look at photos of the real thing, you'll see that actually, the shafts bend downwards slightly at both ends of the central, larger diameter section. Dave.

Craig, The layout looks to be coming on nicely and is beginning to look really good. This computer controlled pointwork, etc., is way beyond me - I'm still working with old fashioned swithes and hard wiring! I like the appearance of the ballasted track - are the sleepers stained ply? On Delph, I have a mix of ply sleepered points and plastic flexi-track for the plain track. I've read that it can be hard to get a consistant appearance with this combination, the best way being to prime it all grey and then paint the actual colours required on top of that. I'm a bit unsure what colour(s) to use for the sleepers. Weathered track seems to fade to a silvery grey, with newer sleepers being shades of brown or even almost black where the creosote has oozed out or where locos drop oil. I've got the TOU's in place but am wondering how best to represent the (cosmetic) tie bars. The droppers from the blades to the TOU tend to be just where the visible tie bar should go, making attachment rather difficult. I have thought of just representing the tie bar with a fixed dummy mounted into the ballast, not actually connected to the blades. With quite a high track level meaning that the tie bars will be largely hidden behind the near rail, I might get away with this. I'd be interested to hear how you guys are intending to address these issues. Dave.

I don't think I've got any more photos of the bogie, but I'm more than happy to chat about it some time - Scaleforum? I've also got a DJH based Walschaerts version - 73073, although on that I hand fretted the frames from sheet brass - got through quite a few blades!!

Not much visible progress with the layout recently, so in view of some recent interest in Caprotti fitted locos on RMweb, I thought I'd post a few photos of my effort - BR Standard 5, number 73129 - intended to work my Wakes special (for the North Wales coast). I think it's fair to say that Caprotti fitted locos were not well liked by footplate crews during the BR era, being regarded as weak on banks but fast on the level and good coasters. The super performances by Duke of Gloucester in preservation have disproved this view which was probably due to lack of familiarity and a sharper exhaust than normal locos leading to working at too short a cut off. Not that these issues apply to our models. Anyway, Patricroft shed ended up with all the English allocation of these locos and one of these was the last BR steam loco I saw in everyday service - the west end (Horse Dock?) pilot at Manchester Exchange in 1968. I spent a pleasant half hour on the footplate chatting to the fireman whist waiting for my (Peak hauled) Newcastle bound train. Possibly for this reason, I've always had a love of these locos. The model is based on a DJH kit but using milled main frames from Alan Gibson. In fact, the only DJH bits on the whole chassis are the cylinder /steam pipe castings, the slide bars, brake hanger/brake block etches and the return crank gear box castings. The valve gear shafts, complete with representations of the universal joints were made from various diameters of brass rod and tube. The injector casting are Alan Gibson and the pipework, lubricator and valve gear support brackets, etc., all home made. The photos were taken by Barry Norman and i must apologise for the poor quality reproduction. This is due to way I've scanned them in and re-sized the files not any fault with the original photos. First some shots of the finished loco: Now some taken during construction: The front bogie frame, showing the hollow pivot tube which was later soldered into the chassis spacer between the cylinders. A pin passes down the pivot tube to transmit the weight from the bogie external compensating beams to the front compensating beam in the chassis. This arrangement allows full compensation of the front bogie wheels without the bogie frames moving vertically. The bogie slides sideways with rubbing pads on the bottom of the mainframes resting on the "ears" protruding either side of the bogie frames. Light springs resting on the bogie axles keep the frames pushed up onto the pads. Hairpin side control springs centralise the bogie on the pivot tube. A bit complicated, perhaps, but it works really well and is applied to all bogies on my locos. Now some shots showing how the cylinders and valve gear are made up from sub-assembles which are held together by small screws (14 BA, if I remember correctly). First the cylinders with slidebars and connecting rods: Next the main drive shafts. This unit fits on top of the cylinder unit. Part of the exhaust injector steam feed pipe is included - the "S" shaped piece of brass tube!: Then the reversing gearboxes and shafts. The long, separate shaft is from the cab to the valve gear: When it's all assembled to the top of the chassis, the valegear looks like this: At the rear end of the chassis, on the right hand side, there is the rather distinctive lubricator mounting and drive. The lubricator bracket is quite massive and has the steam feed from the blast pipe to the exhaust steam injector passing right through the bracket, or rather the lubricator bracket incorporates a tube which forms part of the exhaust steam supply pipe. On the model, sections of this pipe are attached to bits of the valve gear, as seen above, and some to the chassis mainframes. The injector castings are Alan Gibson. This shot has the brake gear removed. Also visible are the dummy springs, sand pipes/brackets, ash pan and hopper operating gear and the pick ups - all mounted to a removable keeper plate which retains the driving axles. The motor is a Portescap 1616 fitted with an MJT gearbox conversion. The electrical connection to the motor, via bits of gapped copper-clad sleeper strip glued to the gearbox side plates, has since been modified to include a DCC chip. The brake gear is made in two sections. The "herring bone" main section with the brake hangers, which clip onto the chassis mountings and is easily removeable to get the wheels out. The rear section with the operating lever is attached to the chassis by screws, below the cab: The complete chasis, unpainted, looks like this: From underneath and from above:

I don't think that's quite true. As far as I understand it, BR adpoted a wartime LMS design as its standard. Swindon however seemed to have simply ignored this and continued to use the GWR design on WR lines. However, looking at the prototype photo of Delph in your previous post, the bufferstops in question seem to be of the LNWR design (or one of them at least). This is quite similar to the GWR design, but at the bottom of the vertical rails there is a mounting plate instead of the rail being joggled out. This is nicely masked by the mound of coal in the photo! Seems like I cannot post photos here, otherwise I would illustarte the various types. If you send me a message offlist, I can send them to you. In the course of researching some 2mm kits, I have so far amassed information on over 20 different types of rail-built bufferstops. Chris Higgs Chris, Yes, you're quite right. On closer inspection of various photos, I can just make out the plate you refer to,so my buffer stops are wrong. I think I'll stick with what I have, though, as in most cases, the base of the stops is overgrown with weeds or piled high with rubble, stacks of spare cobble stones/setts, etc., making it fairly well obscured. It's too late to change now, but thanks anyway. Dave.

Larry, Your jogged memory will be a very useful source of information, I hope! Unfortunately, due to modern developments, the embankment between Delph New Road and the station level has changed out of all recognition, particularly between the site of the coal drops and the main road junction. I haven't seen any photos from the road side looking towards the railway in the 1950's, so it might be a case of a best guess. Photos from the station looking across the yard show a line of trees and bushes - mainly hawthorn (?) along the boundary fence, but I don't what else grew further down the bank near the road - brambles and rye-grass, willowherb, etc., I presume. These visible trees/bushes may have to be thinned out a bit, otherwise the railway will be hidden from view! Any thoughts you might have on this would be most welcome. Regards, Dave.

Having been putting this off for some time, I finally knuckled down and have fixed the coal drop deck and sloping wing wall in position. Some minor adjustment to the end of the track on the adjacent board was required to align the rails, mainly to correct a slight difference in height. This was done by re-soldering the rail attachment at the end sleeper, where it is soldered to the head of brass nails which pass through the rivet holes in the ply sleeper. After a couple of goes, as satisfactory result was achieved, as checked by rolling a 13 ton steel open wagon (visible in the photos) over the joint. Actually, there wont be much stock movement over this section of track, but it's best to have the alignment to a good standard. Fixing the deck wasn't quite a straight forward as it might have been due to a slight degree of warping and bowing of the deck timbers. A general purpose glue (similar to UHU), a pile of weights at each end and a final dose of super runny cyno appear to have done the trick. Time will tell...... Photos show the deck and wing wall in situ, after fixing. Also a more general view over the station area with the deck in place. Dave.

Here's my interpretation of the timber baulk buffer stop. Actually made from plastic sections - it probably ought to look a bit more distressed than it is. I've given it a base coat of dark grey to cover the white plastic. I'm not sure if the original was painted with black bitumastic , like the rail built type, or just treated like sleepers - which tended to weather to a silvery light grey. The view below is the same general direction as the photo of the real thing in the link posted by Meil "Do you mean this buffer stop?", in my earlier post (Fairly major cosmetic...) I did take a photo of the front, but it's out of focus, so I'll have to have another go later. ...and here it is - still a bit blurred, but you will get the idea. Dave.

All the rail-built buffers in the goods yard area are now in place and all sleepers and cosmetic chairs fitted. This leaves the timber buffer stop in the yard and the two head shunt (mill siding and run-round loop) rail-built units still to do. These last two are on the station throat board which I haven't progressed beyond the track laying stage, yet. I've scaled the timber stop from a photo of the back of it, drawn it out, selected suitable (plastic) material and am about to start construction. Drawing the thing full size lead me to conclude that the siding track stopped a bit short of where it should, so a short additional length of plain track has been added to bring it to about the right place. Hopefully, this won't be too visible once everything is painted and weathered. One of the goods yard stops, positioned in front of the goods shed, is on the station board, but the siding is entirely on the adjacent board, so it's been necessary to re-connect the two boards, temporarily, to locate the buffer. The photos below show the buffers in place. View from near the coal drops (with deck removed). View from beyond the end of the station platform (not in situ). Dave.

Robin, Thanks. Yes, they make up into a nice representation but need a bit of preparation work - cleaning up the castings, filling some spurious holes, etc. These stops are described as "GWR" but were also adopted by BR as their standard design. They happen to look very similar to the stops used at Delph, even though it was ex-LNWR/LMS and most of the trackwork remained unchanged to the end (30 foot panels with 9 foot sleepers in the yard). For whatever reason, it looks like the buffers were replaced at some time after nationalisation. All except one that is, which was some sort of home made massive timber baulk construction (see reply with photo, in my previous post). The main differences from the kit are: - steel rod tie bar is located behind the buffer beam whereas the kit has it below in the vertical leg. - the buffer beam should be longer with rounded ends (I've ignored this on the model and just used the kit item. I did think of relacing it with a wooden item - the originals were badly splintered - but it raised the question of how to secure it to brass parts with adequate strength to avoid subsequent detachment, so I stuck to fully soldered construction. Dave.

Mmmmm...I'm very envious. I'll be glued to the telly but it won't be the same. They just need to get that Duke sorted and then we'll see if Stoner the Moaner really is the quickest. Err, sorry, very off topic.... I've just followed your link to the Fairfield Junction thread. It's looking good, but I can see the control panel requirements would be rather more onerous than my simple effort. Perhaps if you're fully DCC committed, the computerised route, as per Beast66606 is the best. Dave.

Or, perhaps it should be "The buffers hit Delph"! Following my stint with the bulldozer and grader to change the height of the road, just beyond the station, I thought I'd better get on with more directly related railway matters. So, I've fixed two rail built buffer stops at the end of the platform and loop roads. Quite a few more to go but progress nonetheless. These stops are made from the Mainly Trains fine-scale cast brass kits, which match the Code 75 C&L plain track very well. You may notice that the stops are not quite complete as the very rearmost sleeper (located under the 3 rail wide section at the rear of the stop, are not yet in place. The buffers are connected to the running tracks using Exactoscale/P4 Track Co moulded plastic fish-plates. As a precaution against wheel rims shorting across the isolating gaps (the cast brass buffer beam offering a very attractive circuit path from one side to the other), an additional rail gap will be cut in one rail, after the adhesive has fully dried. I've only fitted cosmetic chairs on the visible side of the rails (same as the point-work). Mind you, I'm not sure why I've bothered at all. All the stops at Delph were surrounded by so much debris and long grass that the sleepers, chairs and rails were completely hidden from view. The platform road stop had a pile of what looks like spare cobble stones stacked in the 4 foot almost up to the buffer beam and the loop line 4 foot was filled with a pile of ballast or ash/gravel - at least in the period modelled - mid 1950's. Just visible in the 6 foot are the pads for the stools for the point rodding from the ground frame (located between the two buffer stops) and the run-round crossover points. Dave.

Bob, Thanks for starting this subject. A bit like you, I'm in the process of building my first layout (Delph in blog forum) and although I've fully wired up two of the base-boards, I've yet to face up to the control panel, so the ideas here are really useful. I suppose the panel arrangement is dependant on the style of layout and method of operation (fixed/portable, DC/DCC, in front/behind the layout, single man operation or separate signallers/drivers, etc.) In my view, whichever arrangement is used - and the posts already cover some very good aisdea/solutions) one pre-requisite is neatness, so I am particullarly impressed by Missy and Gordon H's panels. Besides just "being right", I'm sure it makes fault finding/mainttenance that much easier than wires going everywhere. I've had some thoughts on my panel, generally as follows: My model is intended to be an exhibition layout, consisting of a single track branch terminus operated by push-pull trains, normal passenger and pick-up freights. It will be operated by a signaller-driver from one end (near the station buffer stops) at the front of the layout, with a casette type fiddle yard at the other end, hidden from the operators view. The layout can be operated by either DCC (normal), for traction current only, or cab control DC (for testing new locos, visitors, etc.). Points and signals which would be controlled from the signal box will be operated from the panel, whilst yard points operated by ground levers and the AJ uncoupling magnets are operated from swithes/buttons mounted in the front edge of the layout, local to the item they operate. Thus the shunting driver will walk up and down the length of the layout with his loco. There will be a separate, floor mounted power supply box feeding the required inputs to the control panel. The panel itself will have the signal box diagram at the top, below which is the lever frame (actually just electrical swithes with the correct colour handle covers). These are in the correct sequence and normal and reversed positions, per prototype practice. Below these, there will be rotary swithes to select DCC (all control plug in points) of one of 2 DC sections (platform road and everything else) and DIN plug sockets fro DCC or DC controllers. (There are also controller sockets in the facial board for the yard operator.). There will be the box bell code equipment to communicate with the fiddle yard (rest of the world!). Im also intending to include a CC-TV screen to allow the operator to see the fiddle yard and some sort of DCC loco address describer so the operator knows which loco and which way it is facing for DCC operation. All very well in theory, I just hope I can realise it and it works! Good luck with your project (and the bike racing?). Dave.

Robin, All's well......, but I doubt that 8 layers of solder would add up to 2 mm, unless you left a deliberate gap. Perhaps the walls were already bowed out slightly when you measured the gap, or were moved slightly by the measurement itself? Or perhaps the square section pillar sockets are a bit bigger than you allowed for? I'm glad you sort of ignored my silly question about trannsverse girders - simple observation of the photos should have informed me that the "A" frame pitched roof supports would sit on to the main support girders and outer walls (at the outer bays). Probably my mind isn't quite "with it" just now! Craig has lost me a bit with his comment - I can't see any "post numbers" and what are "birdy hat pictures"?