rodent279

So that is a bespoke design? Did it need safety validation/certification?

Although we've strayed somewhat from the original topic, this is very interesting stuff-keep it up!

So who operated most trains at Fenchurch St? If it was the LTSR, that makes it unusual in being a major London terminus owned by one company, but with most trains operated by another.

Yes, thinking about it, this makes sense. One could imagine the Midland then protesting that the MSWJ went into the GW.

So were any companies split or partitioned under the RA1921? Was it simply an exercise in reduce the number of controlling interests, rather than an attempt at reshaping the geography? Interesting that the LTSR had committed to electrify, would it have been 3rd rail DC or overhead line? Id assume 3/4rDC for compatibility with the District railway. One for the Imaginary Railways thread. Perhaps another question would be if the MR takeover had not happened, would the LTSR have gone into the LNER, or would it & the District Railway have been combined?

Yes, but could the Act not have split the LTSR away from the Midland and put it in with the LNER? The London & Blackwall Railway existed, in legal terms at least, until the Grouping, and was combined with the LNER.

This may have been covered before, but..... I realise the the Midland took over the LTSR in 1912, and I have read that the LTSR dropped many hints to the GER about a merger or buyout, but they never took the hint. Why then did the 1921 Railways act group the LTSR into the LMSR, and not in the LNER?

One from the LSL pool then-what have they got? A couple of Bulleids, a Scot, a couple of class 5s?

I suppose the thing to bear in mind is if that door, especially if it was one of the wider wrap-round doors of later mk2/3 stock, swung open as you grabbed it, then (if it is opening towards the rear of the train) at anything above about a walking pace, it will act like a sail, swing open very quickly, carry you with it, and you wouldn't be here relating this tale.

So, if WCRC have now been banned from using their Mk1s on the mainline with immediate effect, that must place a whole load of railtours at risk? For example, the tour I did with a pair of 33s in early Dec was all WCRC mk1s. Ok they could have used a rake of mk2s, but only if they are not required elsewhere. Cromptons being air braked and ETH fitted could brake and power them, but certain kettles would have a problem.

They really should have called it Birmingham University Train & Transport Society.

OT, but sometimes that does seem to be the approach. We used to live on a road that was used as a rat run. It was a residential area, 30mph, lots of parked cars, several bends and on a hill. We asked the council about traffic calming measures and they put up a speed trap right outside our house for 6 months. After the data collection period was over, the council said they would not do anything as the median vehicle speed was only 40mph*, and only 3 cars had been detected exceeding 70mph. I read that as "until someone dies or is seriously injured, we won't do anything". *might not have been 40, but certainly well over 30.

Tribbles, they're filming a new Star Trek there!

Why exactly is this a problem? Doesn't bother me in the slightest, I don't need to be told either, but I'm quite happy for it to be printed on a cup, it's no skin off my nose.

But even if they did fit CDL, would we trust them to maintain it in operable condition? How long before ORR are slapping another prohibition order on them because they were discovered using a carriage with CDL inoperative?

Two examples of common sense from "the good old days". I used to love walking along the top of the fence that bordered the car park & recreation ground at my local station. It was made out of old railway sleepers, and was about 100m long, largely straight, but not an even height. Until I fell off it and broke my wrist. Fortunately I landed on the grass side, not in the car park with it's hard old ballast surface, or on a car, which could have resulted in something more serious. But no harm done really, apart from injured pride. Would it have been "nanny state, elf & softee gorn mad" to prevent me from doing it? Of course not, and that's what happened some years later, when access to the fence was restricted by iron railings between the footbridge and the start of the fence. The other, more serious one, was around the same time, a couple of miles away at the local tunnel. A lad of about 17 was playing with a bit of cable, dangling it over the tunnel mouth as paying trains went through. This is the electrified WCML, so you can imagine what happened eventually. Stupid idiot? Yes, but should he be have been allowed access to the space above the tunnel? No, of course not. It was fenced, but not adequately, and shortly afterwards the fence was replaced with proper iron spiked fencing.

I agree, it seems to be a knee-jerk reaction on the part of the old guard reactionaries, for whom any improvements in H&S are seen as nanny state, 'elf & softee, namby-pamby etc. I'm tired of it, it's like a broken record. Back in the "good old days", irresponsible people still did silly things that put themselves and other in danger, so it's not that "we didn't need it then", we did need it, but a few deaths and serious injuries were taken as par for the course. We take a different, much more pro-active view now, and I for one am glad of that, and am unapologetic about it. Really, BR should not have been allowed to build a whole raft of passenger rolling stock from the late 60's on without at least CDL, and ideally anything mk2 & upwards should have had power operated doors. Slam door emus were still being built as late as 1976. But as usual we insist on doing it on the cheap, so it didn't happen.

Is the thumper vacuum braked? Steam hauled thumper for the Jacobite? Paint it maroon, the normals will never know the difference! Problem solved 🤩

They're just playing stupid pr games, trying to make ORR take the blame if the Harry Potter thing falls apart. Well done ORRfor getting tough.

I thought that. Expensive way to throw in the towel though. And who would work with them in future?

And in a lot of cases, if you did not open the door and jump off while the train was still moving, you got grumbled at. Been there, done it, I knew it was silly at the time, but I still did it. I wouldn't now.

So did I. The past was such a nice, rose tinted place wasn't? Nothing nasty ever happened, people had "common sense" and knew how to look after themselves didn't they? Maybe you think not wearing a seatbelt is ok, or wearing a cycle helmet is for namby pamby woftee softees who need to man up, as well? But the nature of the people using the railway now has changed, they simply are not used to slam lock doors, or to the idea that a door can be opened whilst a train is moving. As referred to above, for years up until the early 90's the majority of passenger trains did not have automatic doors that locked whilst the train is moving, something in which most other European countries were far ahead of us on. 325 deaths from falling from moving trains speaks for itself.

Basing an entire business case on the existence of an ongoing exemption to a safety requirement does not seem to be the most robust way of managing a business to me.

I have every sympathy for those front line staff whose jobs are at the mercy of the whims of management & directors, after all we are all in that position to some extent, unless you happen to be a director. Sometimes sh!t gets imposed from on high and there's little staff on the ground can do about it, whatever their views are on the matter. A wise man once said to me whatever position you're in, you're only a 30 min board meeting away from a P45.

Can't see how it would be any different fitting CDL to an inward opening door than it is to an outward opening door. Then again, I'm not an expert on cdl, so maybe there is a good reason.