YesTor

Signal red is quite a bright red really...  I always thought that departmental red was a lot more dull/darker by comparison?  Have you tried Phoenix P293 BR Engineers Stock Gulf Red

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/precisionrailway/nationalised/14p293

Best

Al

Did anyone attempt the lights mod on any of the 'bug-eyed' versions?

Al

7 hours ago, big jim said:

I wonder if it may depend on where the plates are fitted, cab side seem to be glued but on the ribbed side they are taped one maybe?

 

my 66789 are taped to the rib side 

Precisely.  All the ones I have that feature bodyside nameplates are affixed with tape - which seems logical, as glue dribbling into ribbed panels is surely asking for trouble before you can even say Fanny Cradock. 

If I'm not mistaken, the only prototypes to feature cabside nameplates are EWS variants and most of those are less than standard height ('EWS Energy' excepted) - making for a very slender nameplate when reduced to 1:76.  Logic tells me that perhaps for this reason - alongside the fact the cabside is flat as opposed to ribbed - someone somewhere decided it would be preferable to glue those in place as opposed to tape.  All seems logical, except for the fact of course that it seems notoriously difficult for factory assemblers to actually affix these horizontally or/and without glue marks - re earlier saga with Dapol 68s.  

So, an educated guess suggests that 'James Nightall GC' is likely the only glue-fitted plate:

Printed nameplates on ribbed bodysides are also a bit ridiculous, firstly they are in no way realistic, and secondly are insanely difficult to remove if anyone wants to create an unnamed variant.  I reckon that Hattons have got the nameplate situation spot-on for those with bodyside plates - easily adjustable/removable and feature a light white printed guideline underneath to aid reattachment, which is also easy to remove if required. 

The cabside-named variants might perhaps be better having guidelines lightly printed, or even the nameplate printed (if guidelines alone are going to terrify anyone), with the actual plates in a bag for the user to attach. 

Al

@JohnC Looks lovely with a bit of weathering.  

On 28/04/2020 at 12:17, adb968008 said:

nice model and i’m looking forwards to it,  but It was some time ago I held the 59’s now... it was 18month since the paint sample at Warley !

 

I recall it has etched roof grills and rotating axle boxes, and separate sand box pipe work etc, opening doors, a lot of separate pipework on the underframe and bogies are separately attached pieces.. dont under sell it.. its up there with their class 68 !

...you cant see the air dam & frame joins on the 59, and horn grills on the 59 looked more flush than on the Hattons 66.

But its a long time between the 2018 EP to today. 

Yeah, I'm mostly with you on all of that, the horn grilles are indeed more flush-fitting on the Dapol 59, but I think that's pretty much in line with the prototype: 

59206 by rob50037, on Flickr

66 horn grilles are more pronounced in reality:

Ballast for Burngullow by Steadfast Fotography, on Flickr

The only things that jar visually on the 59 for me are the noticeable gaps that the separately-fitted cab doors create.  And I do feel that the bodyside grilles might have been much nicer if etched. 

From the samples that you pictured above, I do remember the DB liveried version appeared by far the most realistic-looking in terms of paint finish, whilst I was slightly deflated for some reason with the ARC grey/mustard variant, as somehow the overall finish appeared, to my eye at least, a bit 'plastic-looking'.  I really couldn't work out why, maybe it's the fact that the bogies and underframe are all grey too - it almost looked as though they had been moulded in grey plastic - it wouldn't be the first time that Dapol have done this - but truly hope I am horribly wrong in this instance!  The bodyside grilles all being yellow with nothing to really pick them out against the main body also didn't really seem to generate any life in the overall look - something that etched grilles may well have achieved.   As I said though, the DB Schenker finish seemed very, very pleasing and really seemed to bring the model to life.  I guess we will all see on the final models!        

Al 

2 hours ago, Dicky L said:

GBRf 66762 held at Chesborough North.  

I'm liking the way you step into the thread with a nice photo when the mood gets a lil' hostile...  

1 hour ago, GEARJAMMER said:

 

Ive not yet got my hands on a Hattons class 66 (my mate has got the pink one on order so ill see his as soon as he gets it), however going by reports on this forum the rotating axle boxes fall off and other bits are prone to damage, having held the class 59 EP can you shed (no pun intended) any light on if you think the 59 might suffer the same issues, or did it look and feel like it was bit more well put together and robust to handling etc?

If I recall correctly, the Dapol 59 doesn't appear to have anywhere near as many separately fitted parts as the Hattons 66  - no etched grilles to begin with and not sure the underframe/solebar is quite so well detailed either.

Al

For what it's worth, I returned a package on April 7th, followed by a quick telephone call earlier this week to confirm they'd received it.  I was advised by a very helpful gentleman that my return had been received, and as others have pointed out, that Hatton's were very much operating on skeleton staff and that the returns dept had been virtually unmanned for a few days, however they would be working this week to catch up.  I've since received an email to confirm that my replacement order has been despatched today. 

At the end of the day these are model railway items, not essentials such as food or medicine, and considering the current climate it wouldn't have been unreasonable for some of these hobby stores to simply have 'shut up shop' until further notice.  So personally, I'm simply content that there is indeed still some kind of service.

Al

Depends on the era you model I guess, as the MAERSK containers have been around for a good while, I believe?  However, plenty of variation for the current era:

Dapol FEA-B twin-flat

Hattons FEA-E single-flat

Realtrack FLA (particularly suited to 40'/Hi-Cube containers)

Hornby KFA

Dapol KTA pocket wagon (again particularly suited to 40'/Hi-Cube containers)

Dapol IDA (DRS livery only - not sure from memory if these are seen carrying MAERSK though...)

There are likely others but that's everything that springs to mind right now.

cheers

Al

6 hours ago, big jim said:

glue marks aside, those are truly awful looking nameplates!

The nameplates in general aren't the best I've seen, although those slimline cabside ones do appear particularly poorly-defined.  That said, they are nowhere near as bad as Dapol's efforts on their 68s.     Factory-fitted plates always seem to leave much to be desired. 

Still, at least the bodyside-attached plates are easily removable, as I'll be replacing all of mine with Shawplan plates at the earliest opportunity.

Al

4 hours ago, classy52 said:

Yeah quite funny watching it unfold and those clutching their pearls over it.

7 minutes ago, Edna Clouds said:

Quite! An excellent read for an hour or so. I've never had such fun without laughing!

Watch it guys, my 'pearls' aren't for public consumption        

21 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Whilst they are, I do wonder why they are part of the body and don't slot into the chassis under the body profile

Yeah, I initially wondered that too and even tried removing one of the step/rail assemblies from the body and simply inserting the handrails into the chassis.  For practical purposes that would indeed work - with perhaps a tiny touch of glue on the handrail tips to secure into the chassis, and also removing the tiny tabs that secure the steps onto the body. 

However, I soon realized that it meant that the step assembly could never be guaranteed to be quite horizontal with respect to the body profile, and you end up with something that actually resembles the Bachmann model, whereby that was always (for me) one of the niggles where the steps were always skewed at quirky angles - which for me screamed 'toy'... and granted a tiny detail though it is, it was something I found truly annoying.  So I think that Hatton's have opted for realism, at the expense of ease of body removal.  I guess we can't have it all ways...     

Al

16 hours ago, MRDBLUE17 said:

Hi Al,

 

Thanks for posting such a clear and detailed how to guide for the body. At some point in the future I will need to remove to add sound and a driver.

 

I’ve gone ahead and ordered 66780 tonight as I think it will be popular and don’t want to miss out. Having been pleased with the step up in quality and detail as well as running qualities of the loco I got it made the decision much easier. (Once I sorted the axle box issue to remove the wobble) 

 

Cheers

Mark

Thanks Mark, and yeah, I think it's very easy for people to be put-off from buying some models (many models, not just the 66 in this case), due to issues that often really aren't that difficult to overcome.  Those step/handrail assemblies are indeed fiddly, however they are very much a feature of the model, and just require a little patience and delicate handling when reassembling.  It's clear from reading these topics that there are a lot of people not confident at some of the basic things such as removing bodyshells, basic maintenance etc, and if posts such as this encourage someone to at least 'have a go' and increase their own confidence in the process, then that's a good thing. 

I've a Cemex 'shed' on order too and very much looking forward to it! 

Best
Al

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

 

Rather than superglue, how about some with a bit of "give" such as Evostik or UHU?

Totally with you on that score!  I always try and find something else as an alternative, whatever the job, and generally use Superglue/cyanoacrylate/cyano as an absolute last resort for anything - just a personal thing, but I hate the stuff: unforgiving, often doesn't actually glue whatever it is you want it to glue , and generally renders anything it comes into contact with as unusable for any future purpose.  Plus using something less 'permanent' means you can always go back at a later date if you wish to modify/update your models in any way.  I especially didn't wish to bung up the 66's bogies with Superglue, as I always like to be able to have anything mechanical left as accessible as possible, for future maintenance purposes.  I am mindful that Supergluing the axle-boxes in place could render the axles quite tricky to remove, should there ever be a need to strip down the wheel-sets, motor, gearbox arrangement, for a degrease-and-reassemble - which would likely be quite rare to actually need to do, but it's good to leave the option open.  Incidentally, I apply that rule to any loco not just for the purpose of the 66.

Al 

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

More worrying - what motivation is there for “ future batches “ to have all these problems ironed out , if people keep buying these . None at all . 

If this batch is as moronically defective as a lot of people seem to be making out, and Hatton's are receiving a disproportionate number of defective models returned than they would ever hope to expect, then that alone will be the motivation to improve.  

Lots of people umm-ing and ahh-ing on various platforms it seems, when surely the course of action is pretty simple:

1. Purchase model
2. Model looks great and works great 
3. Happy bunny and all is well, sit down, have a cup of tea and a little celebration 

or

1. Purchase model
2. Model doesn't look great or/and doesn't work/run as it should 
3. Follow Hatton's advice and return defective model for either a refund or replacement 
4. Let Hatton's worry about how many models they have returned and what they intend to do from thereon - either way you/I/the customer does not have to worry about the cost.  
5. You can still sit down, have a cup of tea and you still haven't lost a dime. 

And Nos. 3 & 4 above likely explain why there has been no further 'announcement' from Hatton's.  Clear advice has surely been given with what to do if your model is defective?  What else is there to say at this point?  If Hatton's were somehow refusing returns then I could understand people becoming as upset as some seem to be, but they aren't.  It all seems pretty clear-cut to me...

Al

1 hour ago, atom3624 said:

Excellent work on the refining of the H66 bogie sideframes.

 

The problem I found when letting the glue 'cure' was being certain I'd got the AB - 1 wobbly on mine - as straight as possible after the very slight enlargement of the AB hole - this I found was 'the worry'.

 

Al.

Indeed, I actually ran the model gently for just a few inches immediately after gluing just to check that the 'wobble' had gone, but not too long so as to dislodge the axle-box covers, and then left overnight... 

I guess I should have mentioned that in the guide, but hopefully you see what I mean...

Al

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Thank you Yes Tor

Done mine and running perfectly

John

Excellent, John! 

Best

Al

6 minutes ago, john new said:

 

The above seems to match what I posted so a bit more background is perhaps needed.

 

 

Arrrgh, sorry @john-new , my comment was not aimed at yourself, in fact I had not seen your video at all.  Apologies for any confusion. 

Best

Al

11 hours ago, carefreecfc said:

For one who was so critical about tone, I think it could be worth having a little look at yours given the lengths you are going to in order to berate me for presenting my findings, at every opportunity, which is beginning to feel a bit like a personal attack if I am honest!

You are still failing to acknowledge the raft of positive points covered in the 'fault finding mission' though.

Marcus, to clarify...  there is nothing personal in anything that I have written above whatsoever.  Much as you hold an opinion on the Hatton's model, I similarly hold an opinion on your 'review'.  As you say, you do point out some positives, but those positives are hugely outweighed by what comes across at times, as ridicule and derision at every turn - even the tape that secures the internal wiring is not-quite as you'd like it, quote: "pathetic", in fact?  I mean, come on, are you serious?!  The cab interior looks as though it has been drawn on MS Paint?  All spoken in a tone of, "let's poke fun and ridicule to the nth degree, *cough*... the model I 'love'?"  Something doesn't compute. 

Anyway, I feel we could lock horns on this until the end of time, so it does feel wise we should draw a line.  For final clarification, it seemed relevant to reference your video at this time due to the fact that the general discussion of a poll (or similar) was largely a product of the video being published.  It really is no more complicated than that. 

Clearly our viewpoints are poles apart.  So be it.

And on that note hopefully we can draw a line under this aspect of the topic and simply agree to disagree.

Best wishes...

Al

12 hours ago, Shoey said:

I’ve been greedy and have 17 in total. Photos show the loco numbers/product codes. I have checked and tested all 17. Some are dc and some are DCC fitted (no sound fitted ones) I’ve had 6 out of the 17 that wobble, I have removed the axle box covers on the ones that wobble and it immediately eliminated the wobble on all 6 and they run smooth and wobble free at all speeds. I’ve tested them in both directions at all speeds across some Hornby code 100 points (R8077 & R8078) and none of them derailed.

 

...straight out of the box there were no parts that had come loose and everything was/is intact. Out of the 17 I have one (DRS 66301) that has one axle box cover missing which isn’t in the box which I’m sure Hattons will supply me with once they have them in stock. Nameplates are firmly fixed in place and are all level (to my eyes anyway!) no glue marks or any other kind of imperfections to the paintwork. Overall, I have to say I am over the button moon with them, down to performance and detail. Going on my experience, I’d recommend them to anyone contemplating buying one.

17 models?  Very nice, at least now I don't feel quite so over-indulgent over my 11.   

Anyhow, I'd say that's a very fair summary and on average plonk myself in a similar ballpark with regard to my models. 

In all, yes, there are clearly issues with axle-box covers on some models causing the 'wobbling' issue, in which case surely buyers can either return their models for replacement or indeed fix the issue themselves, if comfortable doing so (which isn't that difficult really - check my photos earlier in the topic, there may be other ways I'm sure which maybe others could also share, but for now my method works for me).  Okay, it's not an ideal or preferred situation, but for now I guess it is what it is.  

I haven't really experienced any issues with tiny parts falling off - I'm struggling to see what all the fuss is about in this respect, to be fair.

Having set up configurations of various points and tested all models and all seemingly glide around with ease. Personally, I am deeply wary of one so-called 'review'/fault-finding mission [delete as applicable], based upon what could well be one seemingly rogue model that appears to derail on one turnout on one man's layout. 

The sound-fitted models are absolutely amazing on what is visually a very highly-detailed model, which to my eye is leagues ahead of all other representations of the Class 66 in the current market.

Am I chuffed-to-bits?  An absolute YES.

Would I recommend purchasing?  An absolute YES.

Best

Al

50 minutes ago, SouthernMafia said:

Next job is to sort out the lights!

 

66621 is the 'bug eyed' version.  Are you having a go at modifying?  I, and I'm sure many others, would be very interested in your findings...   

Best

Al

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

2 hours ago, carefreecfc said:

I guess it’s a risk I take by having an opinion.

 

The tone in which opinions are presented goes a long way to how people react to them!

^ This, times 10

It ain't what you say, it's the way that you say it...

over and out too

A

16 hours ago, TomScrut said:

Depends. Did you have to set the switches as per the instruction manual or some other weird way? You can then swap between day and night mode via DCC without physically touching the loco?

On checking the internal switches they were set incorrectly (K1-K6 were all switched 'up'), however when set as per the manual with K3 & K6 switched 'down' the night lamps work and all is fine.  I can now see though that it looks as though you have inserted your own different decoder, so I guess this may not be relevant.

Anyhow, I also have a spare sound kit just arrived via Charlie, so I might try it on my 66789 in case mine has issues too!

cheers 
Al

46 minutes ago, carefreecfc said:

To suggest I’ve reviewed a model to create a frenzy is a little dramatic.  

 

I think it’s a little unfair to imply that I should have checked again before doing my review.  If I double checked every bit of advice or information I was given by a customer service, I’d not have time to do anything else....

Perhaps not the intention, but in today's digital world that can indeed be the net effect, intended, or not - and therefore all the more important to ensure that all facts are indeed correct and up-to-date. 

To be fair, your vocal tone and as others have touched upon, bold red type to highlight grievances doesn't convey well.   Beyond the world of model railways perhaps, but there are companies out there, especially when business reputation is on the line, that would potentially sue for publishing what might equate to inaccurate information, so in actual fact it is very much in your own interests to check, double-check and check once again that published 'facts' are indeed factual.

And there I think I have said enough.

Best

Al