nickb4141

13 hours ago, Ryde-on-time said:

This video at 10min 22 ish seems to show some samples at the new Kernow shop

 

 

Thanks so much for this update - great news to see Heljan moving ahead with the class 117 and 121 DMU’s!

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On 23/03/2019 at 10:49, John M Upton said:

The Class 50's in Dapol's cabinet at Ally Pally today.

 

These look remarkably like the Hornby 00 class 50’s - does Dapol have an arrangement with Hornby to share development costs maybe?

Any news from Dapol as to when these will be released? 

Anyone have any updates on this project, or any indication when these might be released?

This project seems to have quietly dropped off the radar? Does anyone have any news about it? Or are Heljan waiting to see if Dapol make an announcement as a follow-on to their impending Class 121/122 bubble cars?

17 hours ago, Fenman said:

I’m surprised no-one’s yet released an O gauge transition era DMU - such as a Derby Lightweight, a 105 or a 101. 

 

I promise I’m not wish-listing. Honest. 

 

Paul

 

1 minute ago, nickb4141 said:

Totally agree with the class 101 DMU - I’m amazed neither Heljan or Dapol have snapped this one up, bearing in mind it’s longevity, geographical spread and vast amount of liveries to produce! 

 

Totally agree with the class 101 DMU - I’m amazed neither Heljan or Dapol have snapped this one up, bearing in mind it’s longevity, geographical spread and vast amount of liveries to produce! 

Does anyone who, (like me,) has committed money to this project,have a copy of the terms and conditions? I have had a search through all of my emails and can’t find any record of anything? I’ve also looked on the website and there is no mention of anything. Any help in finding these (assuming they actually exist,) would be greatly appreciated.

2 minutes ago, leopardml2341 said:

I for one will be interested to hear what your lawyer says, please do report back.

I will do. I suspect she will say there is nothing I can do and everyone who has ‘invested’ will have lost their money. What I find staggering is that LLC didn’t even have the courtesy of sending people who have invested money any explanation as to what is going on. I’m also alarmed that we have all paid two payments when only development work has occurred and according to his ‘statement’ the class 22 is only ‘ready for tooling’ This alone makes me question just how legitimate the company was in the first place. 

I can’t believe everyone is so blasé and ‘understanding’ about this?!!! I have paid £850 and it totally unacceptable that he now decides to sell the company, leaving everyone high and dry!  This seems nothing short of a scam. I shall be talking to my lawyer in the morning about this. Disgraceful....

Hopefully next weeks episode will be better, but for me, it was a case of blink and you miss the bits actually about Hornby! It might have been better to do separate programmes about Airfix and Scaletrix and actually concentrate what the vast majority of the public believe Hornby represents; ie a train company. Airfix seemed to get the vast majority of the airtime. Unsurprisingly, it was very much in the ‘Top Gear cheesy cliches’ mould of TV, featuring a typical media version of a ‘train set geek’ in his garage -for me,  it felt like it was belittling the hobby. A shame really as this could have been a really interesting subject matter for a decent quality documentary and deserves a much better production!

I hope you understand that my post was in reply to a fellow member offering and explanation as to what I personally feel may be upsetting people. And it's not necessarily my actual opinion on the matter.

 

My only opinion being that I felt LLC could've done a better job and I wish LLC didn't face so many issues that they eventually did. The notion of one manufacturer announcing something just to stop another is something I personally don't believe in. I was simply re-posting what I've seen so far in this thread.

I’m sorry if my post felt like I was directed at you. I promise you it wasn’t, I was just trying to add a bit of balance and objectivity to some of the more extreme views that I have read. The posting by Steve from LLC might explain the background to some of the negativity posted on here!

 

Cheers, Nick

I’ve been reading the thread concerning another manufacturer’s Class 50 model on and off for a while and so to correct some inaccuracies mentioned in it I’d like to put our version of events forward. Most will not be aware, and it will prevent some unwarranted criticism of our competitor.

 

A new Facebook group was started for LLC (this was not asked for) by an individual (let’s call him Mr X) who did customer decoration and repaints for us. One of the first posts in the new FB group was a poll started by Nikki (our design engineer) asking what we should produce next. The Class 50 won the poll.

 

Mr X contacted me and asked if we should crowdfund the model, knowing it was not in LLCs foreseeable production plan. He then posed the question on his own FB group and it was obvious to see there was very strong support for it. Nikki and I were too busy to manage the project so I told him he has to put some hours in finding the drawings, looking for other investors and stakeholders, etc. Producing a model this size is very expensive and time-consuming.

 

Mr X could not find the drawings (he did this by using Messenger on FB…) but he had heard that somebody had the entire file and set about messaging him. I have heard through a friend of this person that the messages started congenially and ended up with a copious amount of swearing, all in the name of LLC, and all in a single day. The person with the drawings doesn’t use FB that much, so when he did eventually see the messages I can imagine his reaction and I don’t blame him. I have tried to contact him since to apologise and I can fully understand why he wants nothing to do with LLC if ‘we’ communicate like that. So, at that stage we had no drawings. I eventually found them by paying for researchers at the NRM – the result of a simple email.

 

Another task for Mr X was finding further investors, which he did. Two friends of his were willing to put in quite a big chunk of cash. Unfortunately, by the time we needed it the funds were no longer available. One had bought a new house, which is fair enough, and another had disappeared completely. Fortunately, after taking more time out of our planned projects, I found a very generous person willing to step in.

 

His final task, and the most relevant in this case, was to find partners to work with. The Fifty Fund was the perfect partner, with plenty of resources to call upon. I made initial contact with Jonathan Dunster and then Dave Redbourne and handed over to Mr X to follow up. It turns out that Dave immediately told Mr X that another manufacturer had been consulting with them for about two years already and were well advanced – obviously, he didn’t say who, but one can guess. Mr X chose not to tell me this. Had I known, I would have stopped development immediately. It turns out that Mr X was on a one-man crusade against our competitor using not one penny of his own money and not much of his time either. I eventually found out months later as a series of forum posts at the Fifty Fund was drawn to my attention. It was at this time, when LLCs name was being implicated very negatively over there that I decided to cancel the project. I had hoped that the bitter words about our competitor would have stopped.

 

So, with a couple hundred hours down, a few thousand pounds out of pocket and a chunk out of our reputation, we find Mr X totally blasé with not a hint of blame or responsibility owned. In fact, he’s blaming it all on us with his band of loyal FB buddies in tow. I’ve been angry about this for quite a while now, and up until now have chosen to say nothing. This catastrophe has added time onto both of LLCs current projects and taken funds away from them. The facts of the failure of our Class 50 project are above – and it’s now plain to see our competitor was not to blame, it was Mr X.

 

When our competitor announced two days after we did I thought all’s fair in love and war, let the competition begin. But this was not the true case, as they were already far in advance of us, which Mr X knew and said nothing. The reality is this person has claimed to be part of Little Loco Company but never has been, he has claimed the credit for for LLCs achievements but has contributed absolutely nothing, and he has claimed to have ‘built our reputation’ to his followers but done nothing but sap our reputation and goodwill to a certain following on FB – and continues to do so.

 

Whether ours or theirs would have been the better model is irrelevant as had I known all of the facts from the beginning this project would not have gotten off the ground. I can only wish our competitor the best of luck with their model.

 

Steve

very gracious and honest of you to set the record straight Steve. I wish you all the best with your future projects and can’t wait to get my hands on the two Class 22’s I have on order with you!

 

Kind Regards, Nick.

It all seems to have gone a bit quiet from Dapol? Does anyone know when these are likely to land in the shops? ( can’t wait to get my hands on one!)

It all seems to have gone a bit quiet from Dapol? Does anyone know when these are likely to land in the shops? ( can’t wait to get my hands on one!)

I read today in Rail Express that Heljan have done CADs not only the 117, but also the 121,122 and the class 149/150 trailer cars. That was a surprise! I thought the 121 had been dropped after Dapol’s imminent model (interestingly, the 121 page has been taken off Tower Models Heljan section- so I thought it being dropped was the likely explanation). These CADs look great by the way and do capture the character of the real thing, in my humble opinion. I wonder if developing the 117 into the similar 116 might be a better commercial venture for Heljan, rather than releasing 121’s and 122’s head to head with Dapol?

i can't believe the level of abuse this loco is getting.

 

i have just gone back through the class 37 thread, even with the roof panels being too wide, forcing all the grilles and windows too far down the bodyside, which means none of the triple grey or large logo liveries fits on the locos correctly, and completely ignoring generally the buffer beam skirt issue apart from 1 or 2 comments, it was widely accepted as a good loco. not forgetting the so called cab window errors...get the windows on the cab front of the 50 slightly too square and all hell breaks loose.   I just don't get it

I totally agree with you! I think the level of criticism is more about punishing Heljan for daring to announce a rival model to LLC (when the likelihood was it was already in development anyway!) It seems there are a growing number of people who DO think the model resembles a class 50 - including the normally (constructively critical,) Rail Express Modeller in their November issue!

It's never too late to start an uprising on the Class 37 thread mate... LOL!

Okay....where to start?

Personally I think the Class 50 discussions are on the rise given the increased interest over the release of the Dapol N gauge version also. I also think that people are quite upset because a wonderful and dedicated company like "Little Loco Company, LLC" who are known for their dedication towards accuracy had to back out because a big gun decided to announce something.

Knowing Steven and Nikki (designer for LLC) I knew that LLC would've had a far superior and accurate Class 50. One only has to look at Nikki's work and marvel at her passion and eye for detail.

So it's more like we've missed getting a better one for a company that has a track record for not taking feedback seriously. It's only since Ben Jones joined Heljan that people have a little more confidence.

Heljan aren't known for their ability to take feedback and work on it. I hope with Ben's arrival things will change. But I think it's a little too late for the Class 50.

Also being O gauge the Class 50 has more detail than other smaller scales and therefore people tend to find errors far more easily.

Heljan's pricing is also far higher than companies like LLC and Dapol who proved that they can make stunning models at a low price. So when you pay more you expect more.

It still amazes me that the notion Heljan just announced a class 50 just to rain on LLC’s parade still abounds! Sorry, but I just think that is plain stupidity. Every other model manufacturer seems to have on average at least a three year lead time in getting a roduct to market, and in a lot of cases, or example Bachmann and Dapol it can be considerably longer! Why you think Heljan are different, amazes me! The likelihood is Heljan we’re developing a class 50 when LLC announced their intention, and in my view, announcing theirs at that point was the honourable thing to do. Do people really think it would have been better to let LLC continue paying development costs and then Heljan announce their model? Of course not! Yes, I’m sure LLC would have made a lovely product, of which I had placed an order for two from them. At least LLC were spared additional costs and were able to move onto the class 22 (again, which I’ve pre-ordered two locos from). As to the point about price - are Heljan and LLC really that far apart? If you take Heljan’s last release, the mighty Western - I pre-ordered two and paid £475 for them, which I think is pretty good value? I do like this forum, but I do think there are a few who like to spit their dummies out and bash whoever the latest ‘whipping boy’ manufacturer is! Come on guys, be constructive and fair and stop getting so negative! This model really isn’t as bad as a small vociferous minority are making it out to be!

Yep....it helps to show how wrong it is!

Maybe it’s just me, but I really don’t see what is so wrong with this model. I get the impression that even if the Heljan model was the most accurate model ever made there would still be a small minority determined to find fault and write it off. Whether this is because these individuals still feel aggrieved that Heljan announced this model just to spite Little Loco Company’s offering is debatable. If this was the case, I find it strange that Heljan have progressed this far so quickly, unless O gauge models have a much shorter lead time to market than what every other manufacturer achieves! I had put my name down for a couple of class 50’s from LLC and I’m sure, on past performance they would have been great, but we are where we are and I think it’s best to stay objective about the model and stop acting like petulant children. I’m all for constructive criticism, but This feel like nit picking for the sake of having a dig at Heljan. We should at least be thankful that we aren’t N gauge modellers..... the current engineering models from Dapol still look some way off from achieving the correct face, yet interesting don’t seem to be attracting anywhere near the level of flak it’s bigger brother is! Come on guys, play fair and be more objective!

Same here.

Its a shame that an inferior model will will now

take precedence over a model which would have been streets ahead in both accuracy and fidelity.

I think that’s a bit unfair considering Heljan’s Class 50 final product hasn’t even been delivered yet! Cut them some slack! The pre-production sample isn’t (in my opinion,) that bad. Yes, there are still issues with the cab windows and front (which Heljan themselves have acknowledged and are working on). I think we all need to keep an open mind until the final rendition is unveiled. A couple of years ago, the trend seemed to be ‘knock Hornby’ ..now there seems to be a fair few people taking every opportunity to ‘knock Heljan’

Sure, it’s a free country and everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but let’s stay positive and keep an open mind before we know the facts!

 

PS I have two Little Loco Class 22’s on order which I’m sure will be fab,so I am in no way doubting their expetise.

Dropping the bubble car would be a smart move but the others should continue. Heljan need to speed up the process as how long will it be before Dapol’s 121 morph into a 116 / 117 ??

It would definitely make sense for Heljan to drop their proposed 121. The Dapol version looks excellent and they have nailed the look of the prototype, ( in my personal view,) perfectly. When you can buy a ready to run sound-fitted Dapol one for (possibly) less than a standard Heljan DC version, there’s no contest. It surely can’t be commercially viable for Heljan to proceed with the 121. I do agree that they should still proceed with the class 120 ( surely also viable to produce in 00 as well) and the Class 117. I get the impression that Heljan are playing a bit of ‘Cat & Mouse’ it’s Dapol and are waiting to see if they do develop the 121 & 122 into a 116/117/118, before they commit to tooling up anything.

Managed to get a couple of not so great phone photos at Telford, showing both 121 and 122. Second one gives a glimpse of the interior though, which gives an idea of how it looks. (nb conveniently lit by the Dapol display lighting, not "onboard" lighting!)

IMG_20180902_112412.jpgIMG_20180902_112318.jpg

These do look excellent, even better than the 00 gauge version, with regard to the much better interior arrangement. Have Dapol suggested any further developments with these( ie Class 116/117/118 DMU’s?) ...and could this be why the Heljan proposals seem to have disappeared off the radar?

Hi,

 

Does anyone know whether these DMU’s are still going ahead? There seems no mention of these in Heljan’s announcement on Saturday and it has been reported there was no mention or presence of these on their stand? Have these quietly been dropped? (really hope not!)

Cheers Nick,

I must admit, I strangely didnt photograph the front end. I am not sure why, as through the large number of images that were taken of various things I seem to have photographed the side and both ends of most things on the Heljan and Dapol stands!  However, two images attached (both are large high-res so if somebody wants to zoom in, feel free to download them and play!) show the side profile and one of the roof detail.  The latter was taken more for the 4300 Class, but the 50 is shown to good advantage on it.  I have purposely over brightened these two slightly to show the detail on the models.

 

EDIT: Ah rmWeb resizes hires images to 1920 pixels wide - so if anyone wants to get the full 46MP high-res, I've put them on my blog server at http://railblogs.co.uk/telford18/images/heljan50 - DSC_8129.jpg is one and DSC_8134.jpg is the other.  You should be able to right click on that webpage and select 'Save Target As...' to download.

 

Rich

Thanks for the photos Rich- it’s much appreciated

Hi,

 

Does anyone know if the 03’s ever worked in Cornwall, and if so, what loco numbers? These look really good, but don’t know if they would be plausible for my Cornish layout?

 

Thanks, Nick.