Arpleymodeller

True,you don't appreciate it until its gone!

About the earlier comment made by oakydoke,its not that there isn't enough freight to justify having so many locos like class 60 its that EWS lost so much business. In 1996 when it was formed it controlled virtually all freight to now where its market share is like 50%-60%.In 2008 it was even said that their market share had fallen to below 50%!.The rest being under the control of the other operators like DRS,Freightliner etc.

So what Im saying is that there is work out there its just not in the hands of EWS/DBS and as they own all 100 60s there is much less work.If they were operated by other operators then they would possibly be still operating.

One final point is that in 1996,EWS had all the coal business,these trains were worked by 60s and eventually 66s.Since Freightliners entry into general freight and the creation of FLHH (heavy haul)they have won a lot of the coal business and so this traffic which was hauled by 60s when in EWS control is now in Frieghtliner control using new 66s.Also most if not all EWS trains which have just a few wagons like those pictured are part of the Enerprise network and are known as 'trip services'.They use to be worked by 37s until EWS binned their fleet.Now worked by any power available,mostly 66s.

When finished,the layout definitely deserves a feature and article in one of the major modelling magazines B)

Me too,lets get back to what the topic is about,60s,not arguing!

Hi

Some good news for all Tug fans.According to the very helpful WNXX.com site 11 60s are currently active .These are....

60009,60010,60013,60019,60039,60040,60059,60073,60074,60084 and 60091.

60091 is described as 'active at Toton'

Better news compared to earlier this year when there was 4/5 in service.

To be more accurate, German government indirectly has a considerable share in Britain's railways.

DB is a now private company, but still 100% owned by the German government, awaiting a decision of privatisation or part-privatisation.

 

Their interest in UK railways extends beyond that list and includes....

 

DB Schenker Rail UK (a subsidiary of DB Schenker)

Chiltern Railways (subsidiary of DB Regio)

DB Regio has a 50% share in WS&MR (now being merged and absorbed into Chiltern railways)

DB Regio also has a 50% share in LOROL, the operator of London Overground services (note that London Overground franchise is 100% owned by TfL and LOROL are just the contractor)

Arriva Trains Wales (subsidiary of Arriva, now owned by DB)

Cross Country (subsidiary of Arriva, now owned by DB)

They also run the Tyne and Wear Metro

 

 

 

 

 

Spot on.

Whatever shape or form a revised structure for the railways takes, Nationalisation will not be on the agenda.

 

.

I know this isn't a political forum but our current government struggles with running the county as it is without the burden of the railways.Another factor to back up my comment that Britain's railways wont be nationalised is that the government is selling,or trying to sell,the new HS1 channel tunnel rail link to clear 'national debt'.If they still controlled the railways then they would sell it now to raise some cash for the nation.Unsurprisingly DB are a potential buyer according to The Railway Magazine

They wont all disappear Danny until DBS introduce a suitable replacement type of loco.DBS tried to pull the plug back in March 2009 but couldn't as they would have no suitable power for the heaviest oil trains which when worked by 66s are shorter in length.A small number of 60s,say 5-10 should be given a proper overhaul to work these trains efficiently for the foreseeable future.

probably because there would be a fight over the sale of 37/4's DRS especially would have a field day!! DBS ideally want the loco's condemmed and not falling into the hands of rival companies, DRS already have the upper hand when it comes to type 3 traction. If anything DBS are clinging onto them knowing that they will most probably be re-used if sold on... unlike the 60's class 37's are repairable and far more useful to other operators which means the Tugs are unlikely to attract anything other than scrap dealers

I wouldn't say 60s are 'unrepairable' as their builder,Brush Traction is still trading and anyone with the money that was needed to overhaul a 60 could get a 60 overhauled to 'as new condition'.However this wont happen as the locos would have no requirement in todays current railfreight market.True about the 37/4s though,maybe a use for them may materialise in the future,a stop gap passenger service like the Rhymney loco hauled,unlikely though!

The German government has a considerable share in Britain's railways-

EWS/DBS-largest freight operator

Arriva-One of the 'Big Four' national TOCs (the other are First,National Express and Stagecoach)

And a percentage of London Overground

The UKs railways wont be nationalised any time soon,if ever.

Knightwing and PH designs make good inspection platform kits,they might be of help with Boxenbys requirements

Hi

The bridge looks far better than hornbys version which is rather similar.What method do you use to control the points,DC or DCC?

How do you get such close up pictures of 60010,I thought all rails yards these days are surrounded with the dreaded palisade fencing?

One other comment about the 60s,many of them could be returned to use if they were overhauled although the current economic climate means that this wont take place,I once read in one of the major rail magazines when EWS was considering re-engineering the 60s that they had a contract from MAN,which supplies parts for Mirrlees-Blackstone etc to supply spares for around 15 years from 1996.That would mean that only now would locos be stripped for spares.This makes me wonder why some locos like 60064,60070 and 60098 were stripped a few years ago?

They are some great pictures,once a common sight is now becoming increasingly rare!,I notice that 60040 has lost its DBS logo?

I doubt DBS will be sympathetic to preservationists,all their interested in obliviously is making the best return for their assets like any business would.I think preservation is rather saturated as far as 37s are regarded.DRS may buy some of them,but they will probably be 37/5s .West coast railways make buy some of the 37/7s to supplement their fleet.Anyway a bit of topic...

why would the class 60 preservation group buy into one of these mechanically wrecked examples?

 

I'd imagine that (if) a locomotive is bought by the group, then it will be a locomotive with very little wrong with it, with minimal spending required to return it to operational condition, and so they've probably already ruled out buying one of these 20...

True,but one may be a good source of spares for a future purchase of a good 'un

Poor maintenance has been a major factor in the 60s downfall,no overhaul in there 20 years of existence and being shuffled in and out of store cant have done much good either.I didnt think any of the recent 58s which were offered for sale would be bought for preservation but 58016 made it.Surely one of the 20 60s for sale would be able to be saved(if the 60 preservation group has the funds)-60031 or 60058 maybe.We will have to wait and see...

DBS are wise to flog as many loco's now as possible with the price of scrap being so high they will probably end up getting a fair deal for them, they are too knackered/expensive to repair and are simply hogging much needed space on Toton, best thing to do is strip them of all remaining re-usable parts to maintain a sufficient spares pool for the few active ones and scrap the bodyshells.

The space the 60s take up at toton is derelict,DBS closed the yard in April 2009 as the recession had a major effect on EWS/DBSs work.It now resembles more of a nature reserve than a marshalling yard with all that vegetation!

Hi

Not all the 60s offered for sale are in that bad condition,60008 and 60089 are 2 good examples,however others like 60006 and 60081 are not.If I remember right 60081 was withdrawn after some major engine failure/oil spillage?

I remember seeing it in magazine RAIL will oil leaking right down the body side,must be a total mess mechanically.

Well EMR seem to have huge reserves of cash,they bought up the majority of recent EWS/DBS tenders.Of the 103 which have just been offered for sale,I predict that most(about 70) will go to EMR for disposal at their various sites across the country.Booths may buy some after most of this year out of the disposal industry.What I see as a surprise is that 37670 is up for sale - this machine was repainted in DBS red only last year meaning they saw a future in it,but now they are selling it only a year or so later?

After 14 years,EWS and now DBS will have sold all there 37s bar the remaining ETH examples from a total of around 200 in 1996!

While the sale of older locos such as 08s,09s ,37s and there last 56s is no surprise,the sale of 60s is as they were a major part of the EWS fleet before the recession.Although the recession has had an effect on the traffic the 60s were suited for(steel,oil,aggregate etc) if or when traffic levels increase in the next few years then DBS will be in a weaker position and will not be able to bid for heavy haul contracts if they continue to dispose of their stored 60s.The 66s aren't suited to these trains and the 60s have superior heavy haul capabilities when compared to the GMs.DBS could in the next few years overhaul a number of them,say 40 for a core fleet of heavy haul locos when their traditional construction and fuel trains recover from the recession and keep the rest for spares/possible future overhaul.

Also some the 60s offered for sale or others in store could have found use abroad under Axiom rail,working alongside the 58s.We will have to wait and see but of the 60s offered for sale,60070 and 60098 are gutted shells,no hope there!.

I hope the 60 preservation group has the resources to buy one,following on the success of the 58 group earlier this year.

Regards

Lewis

Wow!!!

This is one massive layout B)

The ballasting looks excellent,do keep the pictures coming

Regards

Lewis

A nice detail to add,needs some weeds to complete B)

And an EWS one prehaps?,an early repaint with EW&S lettering such as 56057 'British Fuels'. B)

Yeah to make an acurate model of 56004 then some sort of cab rebuilding would be needed,56004 may have operated in South Wales when in EWS ownership-1996 onwards but before that I dont know.A much easier method would to take a Hornby model of a UK built loco(eg 56128 R2647) and repaint it to BR blue,an easy job as it is just all blue bar cab ends and then number 56004.By 1996 I think it had lost one of its BR logos-there is a good piture of 56004 in the train crazy book 'Class 56 Pictorial'.

Regards

Lewis

For authentic operation of a blue 56 you can only model 56004-the only 'Grid' in BR blue in service by the mid 90s

Regards

Lewis

Hi Leon

The third pic is the best,an immaculate maroon EWS 'shed'!

A welcome change from the drab grey liveries.The layout looks better and better with each update,very atmospheric.

Regards

Lewis

Its strange that Bachmann have produced a model of the MBA when Dapol have recently released their product?

The Bachmann offering looks just as good,but they would look even better with some heavy weathering.

Regards

Lewis

Hi Mark

Your new EWS MBA wagons could find use transporting timber?

I think Ten Commandments make a suitable wood load for those wagons.They look good behind Tug26 B)

The layout is progressing well,keep the pictures coming!

Regards

Lewis