clarkea1

I knew I had seen a colour picture somewhere!!!

http://i53.tinypic.com/1zz2qon.jpg

Its from Corby, but clearly shows the sort of colours these wagons ended up.

I think, but can't say I'm 100% certain, that the white stains on the ladle are some form of limewash, used to prevent hot slag sticking?

Alastair

Paul,

That would certainly make sense!! Arthur may even have told me that a few years ago (assuming it's the Arthur I'm thinking of) but you tend to forget these things!

I will have a look for some colour photos. I think that most of what I have are black and white prints of the photos on the link that Robert sent to you, but I will have a rummage in the archives and see if there is anything relevant.

I'm fairly certain I have some colour photos of some small hot metal ladles (also from Stanton Ironworks) which might at least give you some guidance as to colours and weathering.

Thanks for the kind comments on the wagon - I'm just pleased they're available again now via Robert!

I shall be following this with interest

Regards

Alastair

Very impressive build so far (and having designed the original Clarke Kits version of this I have a bit of a vested interest in seeing how this goes together!).

I think there was a chain either side. I was puzzled when I was researching these wagons for the kit as to what they were for. They may have been something to do with scotching the wagons when tipping - the wagon furthest from the loco would be scotched to prevent it moving during tipping operations. Possibly the scotch blocks would be attached to this chain?

I must admit I didn't ever figure out why! But it was clearly visible on photos so I included it in the kit! At least no-one can tell you there's something missing this way!!!

Regards

Alastair

Looking very very nice Adam. Bit of filth and that'll look stunning

Simon,

Not sure about Judith Edge themselves - do they offer Beetles with their kits? However, Charlie at DC kits can (as he's done with James) supply the kits complete with Beetles to your spec. Alternatively, Branchlines or Motorbogies.com could get you a P4 Beetle to go with the kit.

Regards

Alastair

Looking good James. I hope you keep us up to date with progress. It's a great feeling when you start putting a kit together, particularly when it's something as interesting as this!!!

I think Charlie must have just had a batch of Black Beetles in - my Steelman Royale has just turned up, complete with EM beetle!! Interestingly, I'm short of a set of buffers as well - I'm sure a quick bell to Charlie will sort things.

Anyhow, I'll be watching this with interest

Alastair

That's loooking really nice! Just wish my kit would hurry up and arrive now - I'm looking forward to building this one.

It is going MOD green when you paint it?

Alastair

Liking the new layout! Will be good to finally see Wheal Elizabeth in the flesh on Saturday.

That's looking really good.

Would the CR1220 holder fit - 15 dia x 8 mm?

Lithium battery holders

Alastair

That's what I thought - no such thing as too slow - something with a reduction in 3 figures would be even better!

Paul,

These people do them in 27:1

Motorbogies.com

Unfortunately, they'll probably change your order to 15:1 without telling you on the basis that 27:1's run too slowly (eh, it's a shunter for goodness sake!). To be fair, they did offer to change them to 27:1's but I didn't want to wait another 6 weeks for them to come from Australia. So if you do order from them, make sure they know that you actually want the 27:1 ratio.

I'm not entirely sure where their idea of the 27:1 ratio being too slow comes from. Given that the 15:1 ratio shoots off like a scalded cat at anything above 30% on the controller, I can't see how the 27:1 can be anything other than a good idea!

Anyhow, they'll definitely supply them. I think Branchlines could probably get hold of 27:1 bogies as well.

Hope this helps

Alastair

Halfwit - how big would the flashing units be?

I ask because Maplins do a 3mm flashing LED which has the flasher unit built in. This would scale at a 9" diameter beacon - that's probably a bit big? Their big advantage is that they have the flasher unit built into the base (could this be hidden beneath the cab roof?

3mm flashing LED's (Maplins)

I presume you could wire this up to a small watch-type battery via a hidden switch?

Alastair

Definitely not - the more detail the better!

I've got one of these kits on order, so this blog will undoubtedly be read and re-read once I get going on the build.

Thanks for taking the time to post all of this.

Cheers

Alastair

I'm sure other brands of snips are fine, but i find the xuron shears are brilliant and cut with minimal distortion. I think they do a range of types but i use a pair of their rail cutters on etch cutting with no probs. Trying to get a part to stay flat though whilst pushing through half etched rivets, now that's a different story!

It's a bit variable - one direction appears less affected by striations than the other, but as yet the rapid prototyping service I use doesn't allow you to specify the orientation of your part on the machine (at least, not at a price I can afford!).

Alastair

I'm going to splay the sides, but not quite so violently (I have some tight clearances on the layout). I'm experimenting with setting about one of them with a small punch and hammer to create lots of little dents in the bodywork. I'm always worried that this type of damage always seems to look overdone in 4mm.... maybe it's just the way I do it!

The Ravenscraig wagon was an experiment which has been generally successful, but has also shown a number of limitations of the process. The process builds the model up in layers, like an inkjet printer in 3 dimensions. The downside is that this gives rise to some "grain" effects in what should be smooth panels. Should reproduce wooden panneling really well though! I'm informed that this just needs a gentle rub down to remove, but I'm going to spray it first with a coat of primer to seal it and them get the wet and dry out. Also, the wagon does have a few rivets here and there, which are on the model but don't show up on the photo. Whether they'll survive the rubbing down I'm not sure. However, this model should allow me to figure all this out before I move onto the Brush-Bagnall shunter that I'm ultimately planning to use this technique for.

It's definitely an emerging technique - the quality of these compared to prototypes I remember seeing only a few years ago is outstanding at much lower costs, so I can easily see a day when it's a technique in more widespread use in modelling (particularly when today's computer whizzkids get going!).

I ventured out into the garage yesterday and it's now just about warm enough to spray (with a bit of pre-heating of the model and paint) so I'll hopefully get a photo up of the wagon in primer soon

Cheers

Alastair

Hi Adam,

Thanks for the link to Hywel's photos - I'd seen the Morfa Bank layout gallery but hadn't seen the wagon galley - I remember Hywel ordering these and a box full of resin ingot moulds (and being very patient whilst I took a while to cast the ingot moulds) but it's nice to see the finished articles, so to speak! Like all of Hywel's modelling, he's done a cracking job.

The big problem I find is that most of the photos I have ever seen of these (or similar) wagons have been in black and white. The nearest thing you often find in colour photos (as they survived in use later) is torpedo ladles for moving hot metal between blast furnaces and steel plants.

Alastair

Looking good Adam. Your ladle reminds me - the only other bits missing from the bag were the other bits originally printed on the styrene sheet - one was a rib which runs from the ladle pivot back to the ladle body - this should be fairly clear on the drawings. The second was an additional rib on the face of the ladle which I had to leave off the casting as it was causing issues with mould releasing. Again, this should be clear by the drawings.

I'm sure you remembered this but thought I'd mention it in case.

What are the plans for finishing - obviously lots of rust but photos of these wagons seem to suggest the texture is really important as well. Not sure if that will come over in 4mm?

Alastair

Looking good - I'll be following this with interest as I'm starting to get itchy fingers for one of the Judith Edge kits (either a Sentinel or the Thomas Hill Vanguard they do). Keep us posted.....

Are you going for the 27:1 reduction ratio on the Black Beetle? I had a supplier recently warn me that this ratio resulted in very slow running, as if this was a bad thing......

Alastair

Looking good Adam!

Jim/Adam - I was responsible for the kit design, and if I may add a few comments. Regarding the lack of location and provision for compensation - the kit grew out of a personal project to scratchbuild about 20 of these wagons for my slowly evolving industrial layout. Having scratchbuilt one of the ladles, I quickly realised that there had to be an easier way, and ended up making patterns to have the major components cast. These ended up on sale as various people heard on the grapevine that I had done some castings and kept dropping hints that they'd like some as well!! So in many ways the kit reflects my personal preferences - I model in EM and can get away without compensation on such a short wheelbase wagon. However, about the time that I ended up withdrawing the range, I was seriously considering designing up an etched fold-up sub-chassis that would take the place of the piece of plastic (or brass as Adam's using) and carry the wheels. This would have allowed some form of compensation to be incorporated and would have removed the problems of lack of location affecting the squareness of the chassis. Still, best laid plans and all that.....

I do know of one chap from Manchester who built some of these wagons, and managed to make some sprung hornblocks to spring the wagon exactly as the prototype does - which looked very impressive from the photos he sent me.

Secondly, on the whitemetal versus brass point - I agree with you Jim about whitemetal being a suitable bearing material, but I included brass bearings simply because I wasn't sure how people would like a wagon which ran axles straight in whitemetal castings - I had visions of incessant phone calls along the lines of "you've left the bearings out".....

I look forward to seeing how this progresses, and hope you don't mind me addressing some of your points.

Alastair

Wow!!! That's lovely - the weathering job is subtle but suggests the look of an engine which could do with some TLC! Can I ask about the weathering techniques?

Very impressive - all the more so for the fact this it's in 2mm.

Alastair

Sam, I hadn't realised this particular loco had been preserved! Please tell me it's going to be painted in the orange livery

Adam, thanks for the kind offer - I'll send you a PM.

Regards

Alastair

Adam,

Thanks for the extra pics - always useful.

I wondered for a while as to the best way to do the patch on the back of the bunker. I tried small pieces of styrene, but even at 10thou thick (the thinnest I could lay my hands on) it looked like someone had patched it with offcuts from a ship! In reality, the plate on the bunker is probably 1/8" thick at most? I toyed with the idea of a small piece of tape, which when painted would be about right, but I'm not sure as to the longevity of that. I have decided to represent the panel just using paint effects - i.e. mark out the panel with a technical drawing pen, then brush in some of the rust surrounding it. Will let you know if it works or not!

Your comment on being based on a prototype is interesting - I think that if I ever exhibit the layout I'll have to print out some of the prototype photos (no-one would ever belive you'd paint a 3F that colour unless they'd seen the pics).

Right, off to finish the buffer beam paintwork and blacken the wheel rims...

Alastair