10800

Hi Joseph So if you have a double track coming in from the right, closing into a single track, what is protecting that hazard? Or other hazards off scene to the left?

Not to worry John, I'm going to buy one of them to look at from Atelier CJ together with some masts. Cheers Rod

Atelier CJ Models also do the correct masts, so that's another issue solved! https://ateliercjmodels.com/epages/631c379c-594e-4ae7-bdda-fdf984f11fd8.sf/fr_FR/?ObjectPath=/Shops/631c379c-594e-4ae7-bdda-fdf984f11fd8/Products/"CJM 608"

John, that's great thanks! That is the form of ogive we are looking at, with the 'crossbar' rather than individual brackets from each side. €36 is a lot of money though, even if we only need four or so! Re6/6 was going to fabricate them with annealed brass section etc. Those 'ear' things we might not do, they don't seem to appear on modern photos. The double contact wire typical of the PO-Midi is noted - a bit of neat soldering on Sommerfeldt catenary will sort that (well, mostly!). I was going to estimate principal dimensions from photos such as these, but do you or Marc have a dimensioned sketch by any chance? (Or I could get one to use as a template!)

Hi Brian I have a useful article in the current FRS magazine, the Signalling Record Society Paper No.13 by Richard Lemon (1996 but still available to members and non-members), and some internet downloads including a Wikipedia article. The FRS article has a nice photo of a derailleur. A scan of that publication would be most useful, thank you - I'll send you a PM.

Thanks Brian. You're probably correct about the need for the Carré Violet for the two short sidings as these may be controlled simply by verbal instruction from the chef de gare. A 'G' board might be appropriate though. As for the long siding, which trundles off scene into the hinterland, that would be a private siding, gated near the LC, so that would need something like a Carré Violet to protect the running line I would have thought? In the current FRS magazine there is a signalling diagram (for a somewhat more important station however) which has Violets all over the place in the same situations that we would use ground signals, as well as for leaving yards etc.

I have that book Simon, I'll check. Chris now lives in Colombières.

Thanks both - I'll read the references properly tomorrow. I don't think I need a carré specifically for left-right traffic to protect the level crossing. It's weird to us in the UK that French signalling relates more to the speed you can go rather than whether the line ahead is clear. They don't have the positive 'line clear' indication that we are familiar with.

Hi Simon, no (or not yet!). But wouldn't they just be on Herault lines and not Midi/SNCF? Was there any transfer between the two networks? As I said I'm not looking to faithfully reproduce the line or all its characteristics, just give a flavour. I haven't given much thought yet to freight flows, but your suggestions are useful, thanks.

Sorry Mods, can this duplicate topic be deleted please?

Signalling query here:

This query relates to a layout build recently started elsewhere on the forum: This is based on a small ex-Midi secondary line in the 1950s. A year ago I knew nothing about French signalling, now I know a bit more - I'm not sure whether that is a good thing! There are some articles on the internet including a Wikipedia page, and the current issue of the FRS magazine has a useful summary of the principles. There is also a Signalling Paper (No.13) available from the Signalling Record Society. So I reviewed those, hummed and haaaad quite a bit, and came up with the following plan: Some context: Running line top left to bottom right, only half the station is on-scene, platform lines are bidirectional. Short sidings lower left, industrial siding along the back. Level crossing left of the station (oblique, the industrial siding then runs along the road). I determined that I didn't need any station signals for the other direction because it's all off-scene. Also, any 'disques rouges' or 'sémaphores' would be some distance away, also off scene. So I think I only need carrés for the two platform roads, protecting both the loop closure and (?) the level crossing. To be more interesting they could also carry 'avertissements' assuming there is a trailing junction or block boundary somewhere off to the left. And then two carrés violets at the exits from the sidings to protect the running lines. There would be no trap points but I should include some representation of 'derailleurs'. How am I doing? Have I missed anything, e.g. fixed downward chevron sign on the approach to the station (or would that be further out); or another carré close to the level crossing coming from the left? I also assume no signal box, on scene at least, but maybe a ground frame on the platform and a diligent chef de gare! I don't recall seeing much signalling on French layouts, certainly not mechanical - maybe there's reason for that! Hopefully there's someone out there who knows a lot more about this than me! The actual signals would come from http://www.rotomagus.com/html/train/page carre po.htm , or at least when they reopen for business in a few days.

This query relates to a layout build recently started elsewhere on the forum: This is based on a small ex-Midi secondary line in the 1950s. A year ago I knew nothing about French signalling, now I know a bit more - I'm not sure whether that is a good thing! There are some articles on the internet including a Wikipedia page, and the current issue of the FRS magazine has a useful summary of the principles. There is also a Signalling Paper (No.13) available from the Signalling Record Society. So I reviewed those, hummed and haaaad quite a bit, and came up with the following plan: Some context: Running line top left to bottom right, only half the station is on-scene, platform lines are bidirectional. Short sidings lower left, industrial siding along the back. Level crossing left of the station (oblique, the industrial siding then runs along the road). I determined that I didn't need any station signals for the other direction because it's all off-scene. Also, any 'disques rouges' or 'sémaphores' would be some distance away, also off scene. So I think I only need carrés for the two platform roads, protecting both the loop closure and (?) the level crossing. To be more interesting they could also carry 'avertissements' assuming there is a trailing junction or block boundary somewhere off to the left. And then two carrés violets at the exits from the sidings to protect the running lines. There would be no trap points but I should include some representation of 'derailleurs'. How am I doing? Have I missed anything, e.g. fixed downward chevron sign on the approach to the station (or would that be further out); or another carré close to the level crossing coming from the left? I also assume no signal box, on scene at least, but maybe a ground frame on the platform and a diligent chef de gare! Hopefully there's someone out there who knows a lot more about this than me! The actual signals would come from http://www.rotomagus.com/html/train/page carre po.htm , or at least when they reopen for business in a few days.

So here is an annotated track plan as promised, which should make things a bit clearer - hope you can read it OK So, the running line goes from top left to bottom right, where there is a passing loop and half a station (the other half plus who knows what else is off scene to the right). Two short sidings bottom left and an industrial siding which wanders along the road at the back and also off-scene. A road runs across the layout with a level crossing. I wanted enough trackwork to make it interesting, but not so much as to clutter it up. So any run-rounds will have to go off-scene and back again, to save space. The running lines off to the right could be the end/beginning of a double track section. The station platforms are bidirectional, so that the loop is the main one used for stopping autorails, and the other for passing and through traffic. The industrial siding will go to a small factory/agricultural supplies/vineyard or similar - there were coal and bauxite mines in the area, but they would have had much more substantial railheads. Yes, it will be electrified. The electrical engineer is my partner in crime Re6/6, and we have come up with a cunning plan to have ogive catenary coming in from the right, and handing over to single masts for the single line. Ogives look daunting, but some of them have 'crossbars' across them which make suspending the catenary a lot easier and without going for the extreme pull-off angles often seen on the Midi. The masts may be more complicated in fact, as the Midi typically used tapered double-lattice masts which neither Sommerfeldt or anyone else seems to do. I looked at UK tapered lattice signal masts but they are too undernourished, so they will be scratch built somehow - I have some Scale Model Scenery laser cut lattices for UK masts which might be a starting point. Stock includes: Locos - Midi and SNCF BB electrics, 63000 diesel, 141TA tank engine, all Roco (I know the 141TAs went almost everywhere, and it will have to do for now - ones that did work in the south west seem to have had different shaped side tanks and boiler saddles etc - another minefield). Because of the industrial siding I also had to buy a 61000 diesel locotracteur (Jouef) which I hope I can tune up to make it run smoothly at slow speeds. Autorails - X2800 (Roco) and Picasso (Jouef), both with remorques. I also have a bimodal 'Amphibie' - one of those Atlas 'plinth' models - which will be motorised with a LowRider gearbox and have a 'proper' pantograph fitted. Coaches include a couple of typical bogie 3rds, and a natty triple set of post-war all-steel 6-wheelers (Fleischmann). There is a photo of a set of these near Beziers being hauled by two BB electrics. And a selection of wagons, Roco or Piko. Signalling is another challenge, which I will return to - probably in the French prototype section, cross-referenced to here.

Thanks Simon, you are probably right about the building size, but a) it was irresistible, and b) my reasoning is that my layout could just be a cameo/snapshot of one end of a station that marks the end of a double track section (so not necessarily just one end of a passing loop). There is more station beyond what is 'on scene', and maybe more yard facilities etc as well. I'll put up a track plan later. This is the level crossing keeper's house at Mons La Trivalle, which started all this off (it's now the tourist information office). Initially I thought this was the station building, but that is 200m or so away: As you suggest, only a 2-door structure but with an annexe beyond (and some recent additions). The next station west towards St Pons, Olargues, is also only a 2-door main building but with a bigger annexe, so it looks quite substantial: About 2km east of Mons La Trivalle is the level crossing at St Martin d'Alarcon (as linked above from my earlier thread by John). There is no station here. However, there is a conserved pair of 'roll-across' level crossing gates which I measured up and would like to include on the layout - and even get to work! There is also a scale drawing of one of these in the book 'Les Chemins de Fer du Midi' by Jean-Pierre Vergez-Larrouy. Going further east towards Bedarieux there are two more crossing keeper's houses similar to the above, before you get to the next actual station at Colombières-sur-Orb, which looks to be more of an extended crossing-keeper's building than the stations at Mons La Trivalle and Olargues - unless that had been demolished, but it seems unlikely in this area.

Thanks John, and to you too. Faded cream looks about right for the walls, the photos of the kits at Jura Modelisme vary on other bits, but they could represent prenationalisation PLM for all I know.

Further to an older thread on the forum, I am now starting in earnest on a small layout (a lot smaller than the Ouse Viaduct!) after much pondering and planning. Working name is St Martin-sur-Orb, and it is inspired by the ex-Midi line west of Bedarieux in the Languedoc. It was once going to be 'based on', but has been downgraded to 'inspired by' because of all the liberties I am taking, not least its electrification (of which more anon). My knowledge of French railways has been on a steep learning curve, which has been fun, and I have acquired a fair selection of rolling stock including steam, diesel and electric locos, autorails, coaches and wagons. Locos mostly second hand from Roco, with a couple of Jouef - eyes water a bit at some of the prices for new European models! The baseboards are built using Tim Horn's modules. I started with 2 x 3ft, and 18in deep, but later added a 2ft middle section. This is about the limit I can get in my car. LED lighting has been fitted. It will be a through station so there will be fiddle yards at each end. I've settled on a plan after much pottering about with Templot; very simple with one end of a station/passing loop, a couple of short sidings, and a long industrial siding at the back which will also go off-scene into the fiddle yard. This will run along the road at the back, in front of shops/bars/houses - which may be in half-relief (thanks to Captain Kernow for that suggestion). So there's only four points. Control will be DC with front operation from either end. All track work on-scene will be Tillig, with the four points all being their mid-radius EW3s. The first one went down a few days ago, on Carr's cork strip and droppers already attached. At this point I hit a snag in that the plain flexitrack I had was Code 100 and not the Code 83 of the pointwork. This has now been rectified - the Code 100 might see use in the fiddle yards. Meanwhile, I received as a (requested) Christmas present a laser-cut kit for a generic PLM station building. I know it's not a Midi or even PO prototype, but to my eyes it has the feel of such a building, and ultimately Rule 1 applies. The kit is made by a company called Bois Modelisme, and was obtained very efficiently from the Jura Modelisme online shop - no doubt there are other outlets. I have to say I am very impressed with this kit, with the details of doors, windows, stonework etc being cut in card of some kind, not the Rowmark plastic I was expecting it to be, and the fineness of the door and window glazing bars and representation of panelling is amazing. So I've spent a few hours between Christmas and New Year getting on with it. What do you think the colour scheme should be? Typical photos suggest light cream with pale blue/grey for the woodwork, but I'm open to suggestions. What about the corner stones and door/window surrounds? Existing structures are often in a pale pink base colour, but I don't know if they are original or repaints after line closure. More details to follow as I progress.

Hi Stu Are the two 'Materiel Moteur de la SNCF' books still available please? Cheers Rod

Haha, it is my daughter but her Google account seems to have infiltrated my YouTube channel. Something must be done ...

As you may have seen elsewhere - or not - we have just done our first real showing at Scaleforum last weekend. Here are some pics and video links. (see post on 24 February 2021 for consolidated video)

https://youtu.be/KsU65-x0Vn4 https://youtu.be/JL5Q2I4fEhc https://youtu.be/hEXKtwncPU4 https://youtu.be/7IXpgU7qtp8 https://youtu.be/sUb6CLMtqCQ https://youtu.be/A5kJVGJPShs https://youtu.be/C5FHtOLFNus https://youtu.be/GgZBaDoZt4U https://youtu.be/R4vulDrnHbs

Some pics of Ouse Valley Viaduct and Balcombe. Video links to come soon.

Ouse Valley Viaduct and Balcombe has progressed significantly since it was last mentioned on here. These are from last month, only the 6th time it has ever been put up in full, Scaleforum will be the 7th. More has changed since.

Mike King does drawings for most if not all of those.

Thanks - I had seen that before but there's no harm in asking, otherwise they would have taken them off the catalogue.