coachmann

I cannot say anything about the maintenance of buses used for school runs. I only drove them. I took a Regent V out on a school run and had to use hand signals because none of the lights worked, but that was one of those rarities. On another occasion, I took an Ex.Oxford Regent out with a foot of exhaust pipe missing becasue it was needed as a sample for a new exhaust system and we were short of a bus. I did my best to keep the thing quiet, but I was told you could hear the AEC a mile away as it roared up St. Asaph's steep main street! Another independent operator sent one of his ex.Lancashire United 30' buses out on a school run and it only had a single wheel instead of pair on one side. But that was sheer foolishness and the operator lost the school contract after only one day!

SELNEC PTE looked barmy to me, but of course it was bowled along by a Government that devised ways of making sure British Leyland got orders for buses. The reality on the ground was the various corporations in the Manchester area had been hemorrhaging passengers for years. Yet while passenger numbers were reducing, the old corporations suddenly found themselves lumbered with big rear engine buses under Selnec. The Oldham Atlanteans drove around much of the day with a chain across the stairs so they were effectively single deckers! I borrowed a cine camera and had summer holidays in sunny Oldham (not) in an attempt to film as much of the old order as possible. I visited Oldham Depot and was given permission to look around. Nothing had changed on this first visit and buses were in the old maroon livery as well as the Pommard. The ex.SHMD's ponderosa was impersonating a scrapyard and Ashton-U-Lyne's depot was still a place to see well kept buses, plus it still had its Guys. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since then.

Meanwhile, professional model painters are painting locos in green every week and here you are putting yourselves outside the loop because you think there is something else to discover. I could paint three locos exactly the same and hand them to other modellers to photograph them and then post their photos. All will look as if they carry different greens. Even lining green locos out in different shades of orange or using thicker lines than necessary will make a difference to the appearance of the basic colour of a loco. When I was commissioned to paint three 7mm LMS 'Scots' built by Geoff Holt for David Jenkinson, it was apparent when they were finished and put beside each other that one looked darker. David considered this explained why it was said LMS lake got darker in the mid 1930s. It was all down to a change of lining and insignia colour, not a change of crimson lake. It showed even on a 7mm scale loco. The colours used by the RTR companies are mostly way out. But there is a risk with putting them right, and that is people then complaining that their coaches no longer match. In fact it happens already when one incorrect shade does not match another incorrect shade!

Some folk appear to be having some bad luck with the Dean Goods. I have the twin-flywheel and the later single flywheel types and both are okay runners. The twin-flywheel is the better chassis on DCC and this is the one on my YouTube videos.

I concur with you, Oldham's first Atlanteans had beautiful lines. Soon after their arrival, I began working behind the desk for several weeks answering phones, usually from mobile inspectors. I only went back out on the road after handing in my notice (!) and so if I worked on an Atlantean, it has not stuck in my mind. In fact I can't even remember which duty or route I was working in the final week.

The other shed is where I spend time spraying. As for 'N' gauge, I had my fill of handling mickey-mice trains for old friend Roy Dock, and my eyes were a sight better then. 'O' gauge has been indulged twice so I think there is a clue there. Double track from Deeside Loop to Corwen.......Now that could be interesting.

Among the PBU registration buses delivered in 1958 and 1959 were these handsome PD2/30's with Roe bodies in fully lined out livery but with no window in the staircase. PBU 952 is on the roundabout at Oldham Market on route 13, the clockwise route that covered Scouthead, Delph and Uppermill in North Western Road Car territory. I new the route well and did it for 4½ years in all weathers..... This photo was taken in January 1961 when I was a raw probationer Number 667. The neck scarf says it all....I was determined to keep warm..... In 1962, OCPT Manager Harry Taylor borrowed this Huddersfield Leyland PD3 and trialed it on several routes although I didn't take much notice at the time. It is seen at Shaw Wrens Nest, on route 8 to Hollinwood via Werneth.... Quite why Harry T. chose to buy these 30' PD3's in 1963 is a mystery when all the other deckers in the fleet had rear platforms. Neither crews nor passenger wanted them and they became the great unwanted! I watched passenger at bus stops head towards the back of the bus because that's were platforms should be....shouldn't they? Once on board, they couldn't drop off like they were used to, although some used to resort to turning the emergency 'butterfly' to open the doors. Conductors never knew where to stand, and had to go upstairs to drop down a flap in order to wind the destination blinds. From a drivers standpoint, they were sluggish and lost time on every local route they were put on. They started on route '0' then route 9 and so-on and always lost time. Finally they ended up with G-Group on the expresses, though they were not really suited to the Greenfield route.... May 1965 saw the delivery of the towns first Atlanteans. The Roe bodies were of distinctive appearance with V-front peak roof, which for me brought back fond memories of the old English Electric bodies. We were encouraged to give our views on these new machines. I booked on one afternoon and James Hartley, the depot inspector, said a message had come down from Harry Taylor asking if i would prepare an illustration of the bus while another guard did my whole late-turn. Great......I took a chair from the canteen to the back of the garage where the bus had been carefully positioned and did a rough sketch before taking it home to make a detailed drawing. Friend John Holmes got the 'task' of driving the bus to Alexander Park to take some official photos. Being enthusiastic about buses and our jobs worked well for both of us. I suspect John's picture below is of a bus before it entered service. A few weeks later I left Oldham Corporation for a new life in Wales.....

Cartoonist for the Oldham Chronicle, Kirkbride (father of the late Corrie star), summed it up neatly when he said Oldham corporation couldn't decide which colour to paint thier buses so they are wallpapering them!

Ten of the 1955 PD2's had bodies by Roe and also shared KBU registrations. The front upper deck still sloped back quite a lot like previous bodies. I photographed this one in Harry Taylors Pommard & Cream livery at the terminus in Greenfield in the early 1970's. Of note is a Harry Taylor design fible-glass 'tin front'.... The NBU registration Leylands with Roe bodies had a more upright front. The bodies were of semi-lightweight construction with extensive use of aluminium on the upper decks. I caught this one reversing at Stamford Road on the the old 'O' route, later Route 29. The Pommard red was supposed to brighten the fleet up, but we always knew Harry T. was determined to change Oldham's livery.... His first attempt at livery change using blue was simply not 'Oldham' and the townsfolk made their feelings known in the local Chronicle. NBU 502 was known as the 'dowdy-bus'. I had it once from Mills Hill and men with white coats were on both decks promoting 'Go to work on an egg', while everyone boarding the bus traveled free..... A great shift for me...... The year 1957 also brought with it five Leyland PD2/20's with Crossley bodies. These bodies did not taper inward at the front to match the Leyland tin front and they also had a lower window line than other buses. I had to stoop to see where we were when stood in the lower saloon. But they were very comfortable and seemed to iron out any road imperfections. We didnt get them on the express runs often enough as far as i was concerned. Sadly the bodies proved inferior to earlier ones in Oldhams fleet. Number 409 was thoroughly overhauled and was the only one of this batch to pass to Selnec PTE. It is seen at Newhey terminus on Route 2 when new.... Seen at the end of its life with fibre-glass grill in early Selnec days at Newhey....

Mr. Chaseley T Humpidge, started his career as assistant engineer with Birmingham Cty Transport........ Then Chief assistant Engineer at Liverpool........Chief Engineer & Assistant Manager at Portsmouth....then Nottingham City Transport, President of the municipal Passenger Transport Association during his time as manager of Sheffield, and in 1942 Rochdale's General Manager.

Hi Tony, Thanks. I wonder how many thousands are out there.....I painted 280 4mm coaches in one year alone on top of numerous 4mm and 7mm locos.

Oldham also had Crossley single deckers after the war, some of which arrived with the usual poor engines and later ones with the improved engines. AEC had rtaken over Crossley by the time the final batch arrived and some influence was shown on the radiator. This one is a Shore Edge..... One duty had us relieving a crew on the Middleton Junction run while they went for their evening meal, so I took my camera along and changed the destination at Middleton Junc. to Route 10 - Greenfield, the most unlikely place one of these saloons would ever go! Or would it? In 1965, things were dire and following a duty to bring special needs children from school, the depot foreman asked if we would use the single decker for the teatime portion of our split-shift. So off we went to Delph and just about got all the mill workers on it, so we didn't stop again until Waterhead. At Oldham, I couldn't find Holts on the destination blind, but 'N' was there. Even so, I had a job convincing passengers in Greaves Street that we were not the Upper Mossley saloon, but were going to Holts! The Leyland PD2's had the more powerful 9.8 litlre O.600 engine and synchromesh gearbox, and some lasted into PTE days. This one is at Ashton Market in the late 1950's on the long run from Rochdale.... Three 27' long all-Leyland PD2/12's arrived in 1952 and number 370 is climbing away from Mumps Bridge on the Greenacres-Limeside service. Nothing you see in this picture remains today, not even the railway bridge.... This photo could have been taken from my memory bank, as it replicates my first sighting of a tin front 'loaf-tin' in Oldham in 1955. They had ultra-lightweight Metro-Cammell bodies and they would bounce along on a billiard table! When I joined OCPT in 1961, these buses were usually relegated to peak hour duties, as the conductors just did not like them. They got a broad maroon band under the upper deck windows at the next repaint. Number 373 is on Yorkshire Street near the junction with Union Street on the Manchester-Shaw service....

This picture epitomizes area in the early to mid 1950's with over-crowded buses built before the war leaning on weakened nearside springs and belching smoke as they journeyed to Oldham town centre. Leading the ensemble in Shaw is No.202, one of the large batch of Leyland TD5's built with Roe bodies in 1940 to replace trams. It is followed by two older Roe bodied Titans and possibly a 1950's PD2.... The first post-war deliveries in 1946 also had Roe bodies, which differed little from the pre-war design. They were always referred to as 'Utilities' at Oldham, probably because they lacked heaters and had leather seats. To my horror, I relieved one on the busy Route 59 to Manchester one Saturday afternoon with a full load including standing passengers. Standing passenger on a 7' 6" wide bus was no joke when trying to collect fares and look after the platform at just about every lamp post! The first 8' wide buses were 50 Leyland PD1/3's with Roe bodies that reverted to pre-war standards with moquette upholstered seats and heaters. FBU 252 is outside Oldham Art School on Union Street which I was at from the age of thirteen and coincidentally is on route 'G' to an out of town housing estate where I lived at the time... An atmospheric shot of a PD1 surmounting the climb to Lydgate on the limited stop service to Greenfield when new... Following a batch of single-deckers, the next new buses were Crossley DD42's with Crossleys standard post-war body developed to Manchesetr specification. They were good looking and gave a very comfortable ride, but this counted for nothing to drivers who struggled to keep time with heavy loadings while battling with heavy steering and a weak engine. It was said that Oldham wanted to impress neighboring operators with these Crossleys and immediately put them on the limited stop service from Greenfield to Manchester, but they could barely climb out of Greenfield! I remember Fleet No. 303 was a particularly bad one. In fairness, the the later batch of Crossley DD42's had the much improved "Downgraught" engine and constant-mesh gearbox, but no driver would trust anything Crossley by that time. The bus below is from the second batch, and one is preserved.... Daimler CVD6's with both Roe and Crossley bodies arrived in 1948 and 1949. Below is one of the Roe bodied examples brand new in the original style of paint finish with a shallow maroon band above the lower deck windows. One of this batch was given an almost all-maroon livery in Coronation year as an experiment, but it seems the townspeople objected..... Harry Taylor, the general manager, bought six 'scrap' Daimler CVD6's from Birmingham Corporation Transport in 1964 for their engines.Here lined up in Oldham Wallshaw Street garage behind a Crossley saloon.... Their Daimler engines were installed in six of Oldham Daimlers while friend John Holmes suggested the chrome Daimler radiators be fitted as well so that crews could readily recognize the re-engined buses. These 'Brummie' buses were re-vitalized and we even got them on the express services to Greenfield during the rush hour. In the shot below, two re-engined Daimlers are seen climbing Yorkshire Street, Oldham, during the rush hour. The leading bus would take up route 8 to Shaw once it reached Hollinwood....

The colour images were assembled from components parts with each individual peice detailed separately before being dropped on a background. The program was a old one called Microsoft Photodraw that came with my first home computer in 2000. One could trick later PC's into supporting it, but Windows 10 refused to recognize it. A sad loss because it was a great program for anyone with an artistic bent or anyone who simply wanted to design their business material and letter heads. Some 'bits' used in previous images on this thread....

Oldham's municipal bus fleet was once described to me a 'Pride 'o Northern Union', but then Oldhamer's were proud of their town. My thoughts when our family moved to mum's town are unprintable! Be that as it may, I did like the buses. Below is one of Oldhams trams on Route 20 from Waterhead to Manchester. I only have one memory of riding on one and one of my mother relations took me upstairs because she smoked. It creaked and banged along and looked very dowdy inside. One of Manchester's Crossley 'Standards' is ready to return to the city on route 82 in this picture of Hollinwood terminus.... The three Leyland TD4's with Leyland bodies had long lives considering the problems associated with this metal framed 6-bay design, and the last one wasn't withdraw until 1954. No.104 is seen leaving the Wallshaw Place bus garage where I booked-on as a guard (conductor in other language) for over four years from January 1961 to mid June 1965.... Oldham Town Hall and the War Memorial just after hostilities ceased in 1945. I came to know the town well and all my schooling took place there. A Manchester Corporation Leyland Streamliner is running down Yorkshire Street towards it next stop at Mumps Bridge past one of Oldham's older trams on route 1 from Waterhead. Standing beside the town hall is BU 7946, Fleet No.58, a TD3 with English Electric body purchased in 1934. It is waiting to depart for Stalybridge.... This is the cobbled roundabout at 'top o' town shortly after the war when the signs had been put back in place. Rather cutely, the publisher of the photographer had removed the tramlines, which roughly followed the darker line of cobbles, and no one is using the marked crossings which leads me to suspect the pedestrians have been placed there. Even on an early Sunday morning, no one would have been daft enough to walk across the wide open stretches of road on that roundabout. Apart from a pre-war Rover car, the only other traffic is a pre-war Leyland TD5 and a brand new postwar Leyland PD1 , both with 7' 6" wide Roe bodies.... Without doubt, the pre-war Titans with English Electric bodies were my favourite. To a boys mind they were very old....They looked old with that raked windscreen. In fact the ones I rode on were delivered in 1937. I have seen the outline drawings English Electric tendered to Oldham and the body was drawn to resemble a typical 5-bay Roe product, but what actually arrived in 1937 was the older 6-bay body with V-front almost piano front profile. English Electric were in fact building far more modern looking 5-bay buses at the time, but they may have promised the corporation an early delivery if they were prepared to accept bodies of the style purchased previously (will we ever know?). I can still picture the front bulkhead with English Electric emblazoned in gold beside the electric light switch box on the right and 'No Spitting' on the left had side.... These TD4's were actually older than the buses above, but Oldham got 20 years service out of them and their Roe bodies. They had a normal staircase and so lacked the characteristic Roe half-round window in the staircase. Roe's safety design staircase was fitted to later purchases right up to the mid 1950's. There was an incident at this spot in Shaw Wren's Nest when our next door neighbor, a bus conductor, came home with a broken arm in the very early 1950's. I learned later his bus was one of Oldhams Daimlers with pre-selector gearbox. The driver was moving forward to reverse where the titan is reversing in the picture below and had pulled up the safety button and pre-selected reverse. All would have gone well had not something made him jump on the selector pedal as if it was a clutch before he reached the reversing point. Of course the pedal threw it straight into reverse and the bus stood on its nose! Poor Mr. Mills, the conductor, flew down the bus breaking his arm in the process.....

Thunderclaps, thunderstorm, sun, heat then steam.....

As a bus enthusiast, I wasn't overwhelmed by the tin-front era (and even less so by rear-engine buses), but at least Leyland and AEC continued to offer external rads as an option. Crossley and Leyland had both designed their bodies to suit their radiators, but things changed once the post-war rush for new buses was over. Rochdales first purchases after the Regent III's were these tin front Daimlers. This one is on the long route 17 to Manchester.... Then the magnificent Regent V's began to arrive. This one is laying over outside the fire station in Ashton town centre. I spent many a penny in that cafe while waiting for a bus that took my fancy to deliver me back to Oldham... The introduction of spray painting to achieve a significant reduction in labour costs in late 1961 was a real downer after the lovely monastral blue 'streamlined' livery. It is said a new blue called Larkspur was adopted for the few remaining parts that weren't cream.... What a come down! Once the cream livery became widespread in the Rochdale fleet, I stopped using that corporations buses unless an old Regent III turned up. Besides, I began work on Oldham corporation buses in January 1961 and usually caught one of 'our' buses if only for a chat with the guard....

There are other books from which to gather ones own information, which is what I have done all my commercial life. Builders of models and painters as well often see things that researchers and writers do not. This happened on several occasions in the days when David Jenkinson, Geoff Holt and I were involved in model locomotives and carriages.

Oh right, so I come on RMweb to learn about coaches then.

FDK 331 with Weymann body was the very first of the AEC Regent III's to arrive in Rochdale's bus fleet in 1947 following a lengthy wait. Note the drop down windows and the rear end details.... GDK 143 is also representative of the earlier 7' 6" wide buses with the body swept out behind the rear axle. No.43 is shown in the modified swoop livery with blue cab front. The deeper strip over the windows gave the impression that the windows were shallower... GDK 401 to 407 delivered in 1948 to 8' width had me fooled as a young lad, as I wondered why they lacked the outward flare of the lower body side. The reality was they were not Weymann bodies, but East Lancashire! When one arrived on the stand in Ashton I just had to ride on it, but the conductor told me to board the bus in front. I hid around the corner until the first bus had departed then climbed aboard. 204 is stood on at that very bus stop in Ashton...... Fleet No.214 is from the 1949 batch showing the 8' wide Weymann body and shallower rain strip over the windows.... HDK 23-32 were delivered in 1950 amnd shows well the original livery with blue swoops on both decks and cream cab front. When the lower deck swoop was abandoned, the split between blue and cream was higher up the bonnet to line up with the body side.... The East Lancashire bodied Regent III's delivered in 1952 lacked the beautiful lines of the earlier bodies. Stan Fitton preserved No. 235....

A Thompson corridor brake third with rounded corner windows carried plum & split milk livery with its running number centrally placed on the bodyside. The livery was an experiment before BR settled on blood & custard and so it is possible that any other rounded-corner Thompson constructed at this time might have carried on receiving simulated teak until works were advised that blood & custard would be the new livery. Books are not altogether clear on this point.

Hi Mike, I could barely read the registration plates on my screen, but they appear to be TNA 556 and TNA 563, both Daimler CVG6K's with Burlingham bodies delivered to Manchester Corporation in 1957/8. The bus on the right has a Manchester-made replacement radiator grill, often fitted when the original Daimler unit had been damaged in an accident

Rochdale lay at the opposite ends of the bus routes from Manchester (route 17, 24 & 90) and Ashton (Route 9). My mother hailed from Royton and still had relatives there when i was young and so I was familiar with the 'streamlined' blue and cream AEC Regents, which also carried me in the opposite direction to Ashton-U-Lyne. To my mind this was the most regal of fleets, probably because I only saw and rode on the buses this operatr considered best suited to the long Route 9. I never saw the multitude of old pre-war and wartime chassis and bodies that Rochdale operated on its local routes and at peak times. Fleet number 122 was one of a trio of AEC Regents with English Electric body delivered in 1936 and seen in Rochdale circa 1950 in near original condition... AEC Fleet No.120 was older having entered service in 1935 with a Metro-Cammell body. It is pictured with its Salmesbody body fitted in 1951. The bus was withdrawn in 1957... During 1948, six second-hand buses were bought from Sheffield and Halifax due to prolonged deliveries of new buses This ex.Halifax Corporation 1938-built Regent I has a Park Royal body. It is alongside a Regent I with Weymann body delivered to Rochdale in 1936. Manchester style indicator boxes had been fitted.... EDK 648 was a Leyland TD7 with English Electric body delivered in 1940. It lasted long enough to acquire the modified livery with no streamline swoop on the bottom deck and blue cab front.... This excellent john Fozard picture shows Fleet No. 162, a 1939 Leyland TD5 with Weymann body about to take off for Thornham, the boundary with Oldham Corporation. Oldham destination screens always showed 'Summit' when working from the other side of the hill. One of Oldhams post-war Daimlers is working the full route past Thornham to Oldham and Ashton in the days when these Daimler engines buses were deemed good enough.... Rochdales first post-war buses were ten Daimlers, (some with Daimler and some with AEC engines), with Massey 'relaxed austerity' bodies with upholstered seats and Manchester style indicators. These were delivered in 1945...

Locos could pull good loads so long as they weren't asked to pull them at speed. Those of us who used the summer extras out of Manchester Victoria or around the Oldham loop that were destined for Blackpool were well used to seeing whatever was available on the front. Up until the early 1950's the elderly L&YR 3F 0-6-0's were be no means unusual. The 4F 0-6-0's continued the 'day excursion' tradition into the early 1960's.

A friend who drove for Crosville and I rode on the Southdown Queen Mary PD3's that Crosville purchased They worked between Pensarn and Dyserth and were really smart buses. Regarding dog rails, after removing some body panels off my bus one day, I was replacing some rotten wood and spotted a handy length of timber lying on the ground beside where I was working, so I cut around 4 feet off it. Next minute I heard "I don't believe it!" The chap working on the bus beside me had come to re-attach his dog rail and found it had been circumcised by 4 feet! I know it sounds awful but I couldn't keep a straight face.....It was like a scene from a Lauren & Hardy movie.