buffalo

Who knows why the GWR stuck with mechanical linkage when the LMS and LNER started to convert to auto-Vac equipment in the mid 1930s (never fully completed)...

Perhaps because the GWR mechanism had proved to be quite adequate for the job since its introduction around 1905, unlike some of the bizarre rope and pulley arrangements seen on some other railways. Though the vacuum approach was also effective, it was probably quite expensive to adapt engines to use it and gave no significant benefit over the GWR mechanical system.

As to connection/disconnection, the mechanical linkage simply required insertion/removal of a pin to connect the sliding part to the universal joint on the engine's buffer beam. Hardly complex or time consuming in itself, but remember that apart from the usual hoses and coupling, there was also an electrical connection for the communication bell and a whistle cord, though the latter appears to not always have been used.

Nick

Just out of curiosity, if I wanted to back date a 64xx to 1934 would the tank fronts still be black? I know the tank side lettering would have to change from GWR to Great Western.

 

Cheers,

 

David

Yes, the green tank fronts only appeared on preserved examples.

.

Not to mention the top feed...

6400-9 were built in 1932 and would have had GREAT WESTERN on the tank sides. 6410-19 were built in November and December 1934 so would have had the shirtbutton when built. Apart from the topfeed, none of these were built with bunker steps on the fireman's side, nor were they initially fitted with whistle shields.

Nick

Further GWR?  I suppose there is room for a Saint kit, and perhaps a County (4-6-0 and 4-4-0).  Then there are all the pannier classes and the inherited pre-1923 classes (TVR 0-6-2T, etc).  Beyond that, you need to look at the various Dean and Armstrong NG oddities --- and The Great Bear....

Some folk have very strange ideas of the GWR! Dismissing the Armstrong and Dean eras as 'oddities' is just bizarre. Then, what about all the saddle tanks? Many were still around until the thirties. Conversion to panniers took a long time.

Nick

Bananas used to be transported in large bunches called 'hands', some of which were almost as tall as the person carrying them; I believe these may have been suspended from hooks in the wagon, presumably on longitudinal bars near roof level. 'Banana boxes', so often to be seen near the check-outs of UK supermarkets, only arrived with the containerisation of the banana trade, from the 1970s onwards.

The banana transport story is rather split between here and Mikkel's blog. Atkins et al. suggest that the bunches were laid on a bed of straw in early banana vans, maybe suspending them came later? See also the first photo on this page. Boxes, however, were used for redistribution from the ripening warehouses long before the seventies.. See, for example, the second photo on this page.

Nick

We really need Staionmaster Mike to give a definite answer on GWR double heading....

Until Mike gets here, I can start the ball rolling with the following from the 1936 General Appendix;

"As a general rule, any type of engine with coupled wheels not less the 4'6" diameter may be used to assist a passenger train from the bottom to the top of an incline..."

For "Assisting or double heading on the level or on falling gradients"

"(i) Engines of the 4-6-0 or 4-4-0 types may be coupled in front of any engine (subject to special regulations respecting the "King" class), and, if available, an engine of one of these types should always be the leading engine.

(ii) If the engine to be attached  is not of the same type as the train engine or of the 4-6-0 or 4-4-0 type, it must be placed between the train engine and the train.

(iii) Except where shown below (*) engines of the 2-6-0 and 2-6-2T types with wheels 5'8" in diameter may assist in front of any engine except the 60XX "King" class between the following points only..."

Newton Anbbot and Brent are amongst the routes listed after (iii) where these engines may assist.

The special regulations for Kings include:

"King" class engines may run coupled to any engine of the tender type except those in the "red" group, but engines of the 83XX and 93XX types are specially authorised. Tank engines of the "yellow" group only may be coupled to a "King" class engine."

"When any tender engine is run coupled to a "King" engine, they must not be coupled funnel to funnel."

Nick

...I know that the Swindon boilers are different but with some cutting down/adding to and slight diameter adjustment should prove sufficient, but hopefully an 'all metal' engine will evolve...

Wouldn't a Castle boiler be a better starting point? They were, after all, just a light weight version of the 47XX boiler, 3" smaller diameter but otherwise the same, and with the same firebox.

Nick.

Dreadnought was a Jubilee (45718) and then 'reincarnated'  as a BB Warship I think?...

I thought Dreadnought was one of the Fury class. Built at Swindon in 1846/7 they were the first of a very long line of GWR 0-6-0s. However, it's possible that you might be thinking of the Bristol and Gloucester's 0-6-0T built in 1842 by Stothert and Slaughter using parts supplied by the Vulcan Foundry.

Nick

My knowledge of the Western is limited, but I'm pretty certain that when the carriages were red pre-grouping, they were actually Crimson Lake, the Indian Red being used for bolections or drop lights in the chocolate and cream era...

The 1912 coach livery was indeed crimson lake, and some modellers like to use indian red for drop lights on the post-1922 or pre-1908 chocolate and cream liveries. However, drop lights were actually polished mahogany in both cases. Some sources have claimed venetian red drop lights and bolections for pre-1908 liveries, but the evidence is slim. Indian red was used on engine frames, splashers, etc. before 1906.

Nick

Hi there

Many thanks for this info, it sounds as if the remainder of the class did not venture any further west than Newton Abbot, shames as l d have loved to have seen one working further west to Plymouth!

Now I ll need to find anothe excuse to own a Hornby Star!

 

Cheers Bob C

Well, there wasn't much of a remainder by then, only three made into 1956 with large numbers withdrawn in 1950/1/2. If you want a Star at Plymouth you just need to model the era before the Castles were introduced. Immediately before and after WW1, the majority of those not at Paddington were at Plymouth, but from 1926/7 they were being replaced by Castles.

Nick

A quick flip through 'The Somerset & Dorset in the Fifties, Vol.2' (Ivo Peters, OPC) revealed rather fewer pictures of 4Fs than I was expecting...

We discussed 4F tenders on the S&DJR a few years ago, here's one topic. Using eleven different sources of photos, my broad conclusion was that most LMS engines had Fowler tenders at or soon after nationalisation, though the Armstrongs received them by 1958/9. 44558 had one by 1956. It's difficult to be more precise as there were surprisingly few photos of Armstrongs between 1955-8.

Nick

Very sorry about that Guys. Writing the descriptions for my videos is never my strong point 

Not to worry, Callum. It's not as if you're the first person to forget there was life before pannier tanks. The RTR manufacturers do it all the time

Nick

...GW auto trailers have only one lamp bracket at the driving end and one at the trailing end as well, like a normal coach.

No, they usually had two at the driving end. One in the normal tail lamp position and one under the centre window for the head lamp. In some cases there was another loco type lamp iron just above the coupling. This arrangement of two central irons vertically above each other was more common on SRMs.

Nick

And they'd have fallen between the rails for much of the time!

It wasn't that bad, they could probably have found somewhere to put them after 23/10/1847 (first dual gauge track between Gloucester and Cheltenham).

Nick

Not quite. The GWR had been around for about 100 years before they were built

Indeed, the GWR had been around for more than 70 years before any of these new-fangled pannier tanks appeared in any number.

Nick

But one is a whole train of them.

Except when there were two, three or four of them. Admittedly, up to late 1961, it would be likely that one or more would be an old A28/A30 (Airfix type) and until the mid-fifties there were a fair number of even earlier types around. Indeed, up to 1958, you could even consider a Diag L trailer in its last days, the David Geen kit is a snip at £92 plus wheels, paint, time, etc.

Nick

... Question, did the 74xx class have lever reverse?

Yes, you can just see the lever in this photo.

Nick

I think the 64XX were introduced after the roundel came in so none would have Great Western on the tank sides, if you want to model them as built you will need to remove the top feed and bunker side steps...

I'm sure it's all been said several times already in this topic. 6400-9 were built in 1932. 6410-19 in late 1934 should have been the first with the shirtbutton. Steps and whistle shields started to appear with 6430 in 1937 and had been fitted to most earlier builds by the end of WW2. Topfeeds started to appear in about 1944.

Nic

"so when seen in the film with an improvised coach and toad, the method used was for one of the 14XX used in the film to push then brake sharply to stay out of shot."

 

Exactly, so not really under her own steam, then!

Hair splitting, I think, David. She was certainly in steam and would have been making some contribution to continued motion.

Nick

Yes, Lion was running under her own steam. all 80psi of it. She had been restored by the Stephenson Locomotive Society for the Liverpool and Manchester centenary in 1930. Unfortunately, by 1951, she could only achieve 15mph running light on the level, so when seen in the film with an improvised coach and toad, the method used was for one of the 14XX used in the film to push then brake sharply to stay out of shot.

Nick

Jeff,

There's no need to have a full set just for the sake of it. Why not get on with making stuff with what you've got? One day you may find a need for smaller or larger collets, but there's no need to buy them until you need them. I use ER25 and have the half mm intervals from 0.5 to 2.5mm but, in practice, I rarely use anything less than 2mm. Small components are turned down from 2mm or larger stock and the small ones only get used when I need to modify a small existing component in some way.

Nick

...But can I ask, what does that fat blue lever in the bottom right hand corner of the last photo do?

I think it is something to do with raising and lowering the driver's seat but as no one, myself included, ever seems to photograph the cab rear, perhaps we'll never know

Nick

Indeed. AFAIK even the Broad Gauge didn't extend that far upwards.

Well, the top of the spherical part when mounted on the cab roof would be about 7" under the BG loading gauge (15'). The support post on top would be about 2'5" above, but I doubt it is needed in this application

Nick

Livery? Bunker indent and fender, outside steam pipes, handrails on over boiler strap - should be postwar GWR or BR shouldn't it?

Yes, but presumably all are original fittings as it was built in Sept 1946.

Nick

Looking at the 'sheeting' in the very centre of (c ), it looks to be at an angle, so it looks like there is a central inverted V shape along the centre of the vehicle. This would allow the load to be fully discharged with nothing remaining on the floor. If I'm right, this looks to be covered in metal sheeting as there's no sign of any plank grooves between (c ) and ( b )

Nick

Napoleon's "decimal clock & calendar" didn't catch on - before his time perhaps?

The French Republican Calendar which was not itself decimal, but had an associated decimal time system, was already in place well before the coronation of Napoleon 1. His only input was to abolish it a little more than a year later.