buffalo
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Posts posted by buffalo
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Thanks, Tony. I'd missed the point that you were talking about 'fixing' defects in the photographed model, rather than just 'improving' the photo. You can tell it's a long time since I did any darkroom work, I can't even remember the proper terms for the techniqes. I fully agree with you about review photos showing the model as it is. As a very average photographer, I too marvel at what those guys produce.
Nick
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Phil,
Many thanks for the response, and for the praise of the pictures. But, that's all they are - pictures of a model. Looking at some other pictures of models recently, I'm puzzled as to actually what I'm looking at. It's all outstandingly clever, what with zone focusing, stacking and image combinations, but they're not 'real' pictures of model railway items in my opinion. Still, they're very pretty but for actually assessing a model's worth, I'm not sure. But, like paintings, perhaps they're not intended for that purpose...
I can almost sympathize with that view, Tony, but surely in the old days we used to do similar things in the darkroom? Maybe some techniques were not widely used in model photography, but faded backgrounds by varying exposure, adjusting contrast of different parts of an image and even creating a single print by masking multiple negatives were all part of the darkroom craft. These probably are skills that are in danger of disappearing simply because modern technology makes the tasks more convenient and more controllable.
It's also worth remembering that our eyes and brains effectively build up what we see from multiple images so that we appear to be seeing the world with a much deeper DoF than we can achieve with a camera. Is the idea of overcoming some of the severe limitations of any camera system such a bad thing?
I can sense some holier-than-thou attitudes creeping into this conversation, which I find disappointing...
...Just because I choose not to scratchbuild locos, does that make me some inferior kind of railway modeller? I believe not.
I'm often puzzled when folk say things like this. Most of what is said here and in other topics revolves around the pleasure to be gained from kit and scratchbuilding, and encouragement to others to have a go. The message is that if you can develop the skills then you are likely to be able to get much more out of modelling. Of course, that message is not for all and there may even be folk with the relevant skills who find little interest in using, perhaps because they spend all day using those skills and want something different from their modelling (hence my preference for the mechanical over the virtual when it comes to making things). It's all down to personal choice.
Nick
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Whilst you need different skills to produce 3D and Cameo modelling, once you have set up for this, you can have production runs indefinately-that part is deskilling.
Yes, just different skills. How does that differ from hand drawn etch artwork or hand-made masters for casting?
There are no motor skills involved in computers-with the loss of scratchbuilding, these will be lost.
No motor skills? You have to be joking? Again, it's just different skills and, for many of us, additional skills.
I can see little evidence of a 'loss of scratchbuilding' or kitbuilding. Those who have them will retain older skills even if they adopt new ones. New technologies are more likely to attract others to have a go and, once the limitations of any one technology are appreciated, they may try others.
Nick
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The effect of 3D printing and Cameo cutters is a massive de-skilling of effort required to produce a model...
Whenever I see statements like this, I can only assume the writer has no knowledge of either approach. Do you really believe we are all born with CAD and 3D modelling skills and just have to push a couple of buttons to produce a finished model?
Traditional scratchbuilding involves research, design, production of parts, assembly and finishing. All require different skills. Research is much the same however we intend to produce the model. At the design stage, computer-based tools give us a way of producing shapes that are more dimensionally accurate than those produced from hand drawings. They may also allow us to check that parts fit together before they are produced. All of this requires at least as much skill in manipulating the software as hand drawing. A Cameo cutter merely replaces the cutting skills used in the production of parts. All very useful, though you won't get very far as a modeller without some hand cutting. As to 3D printing, again that only replaces some of the part production and assembly phases. In both cases, the result still needs a fair amount of finishing to compare with a good hand built model.
Personally, I've spent a great deal of time working with various forms of 3D modelling and CAD though I prefer to exercise mechanical skills in building models. Because I do have some of those skills, I know that computer aided methods are certainly not for dumbos.
Nick
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How about the antimony (present in most low melt solders) vaporises at approx. 300oC? Not nice stuff to breath in...
Well, I'm not a chemist and it's getting on for 50 years since I did A level chemistry and last thought about vapour pressures, so I could well be wrong. However, I'm wary of believing that significant levels of vapour are released at 330o below it's melting point. As to 'present in most low melt solders', the last time I looked into this I only found a few higher temperature lead-based solder alloys with, usually, less that 0.5% antimony. However, it is found in quantities up to around 5% to aid flow in some lead-free solders.
That said, I understand that some white metals used for casting may contain significant amounts of Antimony.
Low melt solder is an alloy of various metals and is often referred to as "Wood's Metal" Many varieties exist but most contain either Zinc, Cadmium, Thalium, even Mercury has been used along with the principle ingredients of Tin and Lead. These compounds are added to reduce the melting point of the Tin/Lead alloy. They are all toxic but (ignoring Mercury as it is little used these days) Cadmium has the particular property of subliming at its own low temperature. Cadmium melts and evaporates at 310'C. In fact much of the cadmium that evaporates from the alloy in the presence of heat (up to 25% typical) is designed to do so and in doing so it "cures" the solder. So chasing balls of pre-melted solder around and re-using them is not a good idea. The properties of the solder have been changed along with its melting point. (In addition to all the dirt collection)...
Yes, Carr's 70o solder does appear to be Wood's Metal, though I think you should check the ingredients. Wood's Metal is normally 50% Bismuth, 25% lead and 12.5% each of Tin and Cadmium. As to sublimation of Cadmium, I was aware of oxidation issues in the liquid state, but was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that sublimation was really only significant at low pressures. Wood's metal is also a eutectic alloy which, IIRC, means that it remains an alloy, not a mixture of separate metals in the liquid phase.
Personally, I prefer to use C&L's 100o solder which is a Bismuth, Lead, Tin alloy with no Cadmium.
...This isn't an argument about the use of a TCU it is an argument about telling a newbie that using a TCU is the only way forward. Something that comes up time-and-time again and always seems to be followed up with "I cannot seem to solder whitemetal".
Like you and many others, I'm quite happy to use a normal iron on whitemetal, but I have been soldering for well over fifty years. I am, however, nervous about recommending this to a beginner, particularly if they don't have someone to show them how to do it. I still have some well-melted parts of a K's kit that was my first attempt at around 12 years old, though at that time I hadn't discovered low-melt solders
Nick
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...But my post was specifically countering the argument proposal/claim that was being made where the blob of solder allegedly being carried would freeze on contact with a big lump of whitemetal. Something I do not disagree with as white metal has pretty poor conductivity properties. So though I do not disagree with it, it would not happen to me (or anyone following my soldering technique) as the blob is never carried in the first place...
But, if you had tried it, you would know that it was nonsense, unless you use an underpowered iron or too small a tip. The molten solder boils the flux on contact and that starts the local heating necessary for the solder to bond. Provided the iron can maintain the tip temperature well above the solder melting point, there's no chance of 'freezing'.
...Of course soldering brass is quite a different matter altogether and do not quite see the relevance of brass in this context?...
Oh come on, they aren't really that different
I don't have too much of a problem with different techniques working except when the reasons for doing one over another are outnumbering. Although I can see several reasons for not carrying molten low melt solder on the tip of an iron, I can find no reason in its favour.
I wish you'd tell us some believable reasons for not carrying solder on the iron! As to reasons in it's favour, how about speed, convenience, not needing to spend time cutting up and placing small pieces of solder, and being able to solder at any angle without the solder fragments moving from where you want them.
Nick
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Knowing me I'd want something with walschaerts valve gear!
No problem, do what Churchward did and put it between the frames. That way, you won't need to model it until you've had a bit of practice
Nick
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Well said, Arthur! As you say, both methods work and it's all down to personal preference. Sometimes I use one, sometimes the other. Whilst I agree with much of what Kenton has to say about soldering, I do wish he would stop repeating this nonsense about 'boiling' solder. Soldering irons are just not hot enough to boil off any of the constituents of any modelling solder.
As I've said more than once before, the idea that you shouldn't carry solder to a joint is only appropriate with flux-cored solders and we should only be using them for electrical work.
Nick
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It may have been to move the middle coupled axleboxes further away from the firebox/ashpan possibly to avoid the risk of hot boxes..
I doubt it, in neither case is the centre axle close to the firebox and the rear is directly underneath *
It is quite possible the weight distribution was different, requiring the centre driving wheel to be further back to maintain a balanced axle load.
Adrian
The overall weight and the weight distribution were certainly different, but remember the 44XX came first. If anythying can be said to have been moved, it was the centre axle of the 45XX that was moved forwards. The distribution was:
44XX: 7T 7c, 13T 0c, 13T 10c, 13T 10c, 8T 8c
45XX: 6T 10c, 14T 10c, 14T 10c, 14T 10c, 7T 0c
The trailing wheel weight for the 44XX increased to 9T 16c when the bunkers were enlarged. That for the 45XX was probably a similar increase. Given that the 45XX is much more evenly balanced, it may be that the difference was part of a deliberate attempt to improve on the the distribution of the 44XX.
Nick
EDIT: ps. I did wonder about clearance for the eccentrics on the centre axle, though. It looks like there's enough but we'll need frame drawings or to send someone underneath a 45XX to be sure...
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...Incidentally, the safety valve bonnet should be brass rather than copper for the coned part with the top feed covers painted the colour of the boiler cladding although in BR days many safety valve covers were painted over completely...
Although there were always exceptions in various classes, the GWR painted over the bonnets on all but express classes from the early 1920s and many were probably painted when in the simple liveries of WW1. Similarly, the 28XX were built with cast iron chimneys from about 1918 and all copper caps were subsequently painted over. By the early thirties the remaining painted copper caps had been replaced by one or other cast iron type. The 'model' shown in # 489 has outside steam pipes and a curved drop in the running plate which were only introduced in 1935.
I could go on, but it's just not worth it. Still, it does have the right number of spokes in the pony truck wheels.
Nick
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If so there's pic no 42 in the Middleton Press Newton Abbot to Plymouth book that shows a partial view of the 30cwt crane - curved jib, not unlike the Ratio yard crane.
The Ratio 531 kit is a good representation of a known type of GWR 2 Ton crane. Unfortunately, it is far too big for 4mm scale. See also this topic.
Nick
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Looks like the A end. There are A/B letters below the bottom of the outer cab door handrails. Whether Dapol got it right is another question...
Nick
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Is there a door at the other end? If so, it could be a porters' room/cupboard, or perhaps the entrance to the general waiting room. I'm not sure about the writing over the central side door in the first photo, but that in the last photo may say "Ladies".
Nick
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...It seems to be a relatively narrow building, as the door to the "Gents" seems to occupy a good proportion the width of that end. Are the two sets of small windows along the side indicative of a huge "Gents" or could there a "Ladies" with an entrance on the other side? At least there are only six corbels per side.
I would guess that the second pair of small windows is the "Ladies'" and, in typical GWR style, it would be accessed internally from the "Ladies' Waiting Room".
Nick
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...I'm not too good at explaining it, there must be some photos somewhere ?
Yes, see Mike's photo here for the mechanical variety, and Dave Holt's lovely model version (last photo here).
Nick
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...I noticed that a couple of 4Fs he pictured on the S&D have this LHS only steam pipe - numbers 44146 and 44167. (Anyone know why just a few 4Fs seem to have it?)...
It's the feed for an exhaust steam injector. The pipe goes behind the valance and can often be seen wrapping around the outside of the steps. There will also be a large valve or trap(?) below the valance near the end of the rear splasher. The injector is behind the cab steps. It's a standard LMS component, but is more widely seen on 2Ps.
Nick
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... the two sets of point blades will need to move in opposite directions, hence the compensator on the second point ....
No, the compensator is there to equalise the length of pull and push sections. The direction of movement at the blades is set by the crank arrangement.
Nick
ps. the compensation effect (converting pull to push and vice versa) can also be achieved by a crank when the direction changes through ninety degrees.
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Try Russel Vol 1, figures 471 & 481.....
Yes, but note that the heavily rivetted type shown in 471 is typical of the original Dukes, but had been replaced by those in 481 well before the Dukedog rebuilds took place. Compare, for example, Duke of Cornwall in original (fig 472) and final (fig 480) condition. Of course, those are Dukes, whereas the lower parts of Dukedogs were more Bulldog in origin, so Russell vol 2 figs 11 and 12 are probably more indicative.
There are many on-line photos of Bulldogs, a few of which do show details of the balance weights. Links to many of these are at http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-dukedogs.html. This one shows the vestigial rear balance weight very clearly.
Nick
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Hi Adrian,
I'd forgotten about the 1907 naming! I think all of the early ones that were renumbered into the 2900 series (100, 98, 171-90) must have been finished in the red frame livery when built. Most, if not all, of the Saints would have had black frames, so maybe the ladies are open to question. Do you know of any clear evidence of their as-built condition? Most photos I've seen are after naming or after superheating. Holcroft was there at the time, but it's always possible that he made a mistake. As far as the county tanks are concerned, I think he was referring to the August 1906 builds as one photo of 2221 as built a year earlier does look as though it has red frames.
Nick
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Swindon 1906?
Beautiful model, but I'm suprised no one has pointed out that it can't be 1906, unless someone has borrowed those lamps from a railmotor. The GWR used black loco lamps on everything except railmotors until about 1915 when red was adopted for all.
If we're going to be really picky, the livery is also open to question. Holcroft says that the first black frames appeared on the county tanks in 1906. Whilst 2221 was built in September 1905, the next ones were built from August 1906 onwards. Lady Disdain was built in May 1906 so may well have had the final form of the red frame livery when first built.
Nick
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There was a second movie shot on the branch in the 1930's called Kate plus 10. There are scenes with a GWR mogul and stock on the branch at Dunkerton and at Limpley Stoke.
Mike Wiltshire
Well, 'Kate Plus Ten', filmed in 1937, was the second film made on the branch. The first was 'The Ghost Train', filmed in 1931, featuring a 43XX hauling a mock Cornish Riviera at camerton (renamed Fal Vale for the film), and a Dean Goods hauling the ghost train itself at Camerton and Dunkerton Colliery sidings.
Nick
ps latest photo captures the original well!
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...I have used the Bill Bedford sprung axleboxes on a 4 wheeler but I chickened out on a 6 wheeler as I couldn't see any way of building any sideplay into them.
Tony
Somewhere, I found a suggestion from Bill to mount the wheels on a piece of 2mm o/d, 1mm i/d tubing. This is cut flush with the outside of the wheels. The tube then slides on a 1mm pinpoint axle, either home-made or from Exactoscale. Very simple and works well on the couple of examples I've tried.
Nick
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Hi David,
Yes, mine is the Knauf pink foam, though it was only 52mm thick when I bought it. I think the 60mm appeared later. There was a topic somewhere about the availability of this stuff and the similar blue type (made by Dow, IIRC) and it seems to have always been a bit of a lottery as to whether anyone's local B&Q or Wicks stock it at any particular time. When I got mine, every Wicks branch in the area had stopped carrying it but a B&Q branch about 20 miles away had a large supply...
Nick
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For those who may not be aware of expanded Polystyrene XPS material...
It comes in sheet size of 1200 x 500 x 60 mm from Wicks builders merchants, it's pink in colour any can be easily glued with PVA wood glue and can be painted as well....
David,
What you are describing sounds like extruded polystyrene. Much harder than the white expanded polystyrene which is the stuff often used in packaging. Yes, it is excellent material for landscaping and some of us even use it for baseboards. Here's mine, but there are several other topics on RMweb about using pink or blue foam.
Nick
A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.
in Layout topics
Posted
According to Robert Opie in Sweet Memories (p113), Nestle chocolate appeared after 1905. The machines appeared about the same time and there was even one of the same glass fronted type at Camerton by 1909.
Nick
ps. that book is a good source for advertising posters.