bertiedog

A collet chuck fitted to the mill was mentioned, by Alcazar, and of course this should be able to be fitted to the lathe as well, just needs an adaptor plate, no loss of accuracy, the adaptor is machined in place on the lathe. If the mill is Emco brand,(or a clone), the whole collet may already fit the lathe anyway, just needs a bit of inspection to find out what's there. Stephen.

What you need is done by Chronos the small parting holder on http://www.chronos.l...g_Tools_82.html Half way down, the about ten pounds type, 8mm shank mounting, this is perfect for the Emco 5. There are Glanz types as well, but far more costly. The 8mm type will fit direct to the lathe as standard, it will not fit the accessory four way tool post which would need the 6mm version. The shimming that you are using means the tools are 6mm and really the lathe takes 8mm, but of course you can use the 6mm as well. The 6mm also fit the four way post and adjustable insert toolposts. Hope this helps. Stephen.

Also mentioned is the three jaw chuck and it's accuracy, especially against collet chucks, and collect chucks bet any other chuck hands down. But the poor old three jaws gets a bad press from a lot of users and it dates from the fact that they are so used in a factory that they get worn out. Any modern scroll 3 jaw is basically accurate to hold round items, and do not forget you are holding the blank not the work, so the accuracy of the chuck barely matters. Better three jaws exist, like the grip true type, adjustable to get accuracy, but do not let the stories of the basic types being rubbish take grip. Some older UK made type also had "ramped" scrolls, these gripped tight , but the jaws move in and out dependant on the diameter, and once worn are all over the place. When working with any chuck it holds the scrap part, and all the accurate work is parted away, so the fact it might be out of true is neither here nor there. A collet is a tight fitting bored hole, and just fits the one size( unless a special type), and holds with supreme accuracy so can grip part turned items and maintain accuracy. Stephen.

Boring heads are mentioned and these do not go in the toolpost, (they can but unusual), they are a tool holder that fits the morse taper and can move the tool tip on a calibrated slide as required, to bore a particular diameter in work held in the chuck etc.. The same work can be done with a tool post mounted boring bar, but the tailstock mounted type saves the space on the toolpost for other set-up. Most of this refers to production methods to save time in a factory set-up and can be disregarded for home machinist work. Boring heads are also used to bore holes in work mounted on the cross slide, and the boring head fits the headstock morse, and the whole thing rotates as it works in to the workpiece, which is stationary. Stephen.

Can I add on rear parting, apart from suiting Myford etc., also allows a parting tool to be left as part of the set up on a bigger lathe, all the work is done by the front toolpost, and then the upside down tool is drawn towards you by the tool slide and parts the work. Smaller lathes can't always take rear toolpost due to the practical lack of space,(or mounting slot), and there is no option but to use the front tool post. Stephen.

To give a little light to newcomers to mills, and too leave out too many complexities, the two types of end mills commonly used are slot and end mills, and the end mill will not drill down as the cutting faces do not cross the centre. The reason is a centre hole is left to allow the grinding between centres in manufacture, this allows great accuracy in grind and re-grinding to sharpen the mill. The four teeth can be arranged to sweep over the centre though, and this type will drill down in material. The same applies to slot drills, but two blade with a centre are now rarely encountered in the workshop. These days both slot and end mills are centreless ground and equally accurate for our home machinist purposes. However a centre ground mill from say Staul will be more accurate than a slot drill, so keep in mind there are exceptions. For home use four of more blades are better for other reasons, the cuts are smoother as slot drills are prone to vibration in light mills, and are noisier than a mill cutter with more blades. Most home mills are not able to handle big slot cutters or even ripper grade mills. I was trained on a 6ton Brown and Sharp, and that was not going to vibrate......ever! To ease into home milling, keep the cutters small, and multi tooth, but use slot drill mills as well, especially in small sizes under 10mm. A newcomer may not realise that even a small endmill can surface massive surfaces, it just takes longer, unacceptable in factory conditions, but perfectly all right at home. In a factory you could gash cut in one go a trench of 6 inch deep and 2inches wide in one pass on the B&S, you would not do this at home!!!! At home with milling it has to be "Small Nibbles", in stages to achieve the same bigger cuts......... At first, with all lighter machines, steer clear of flycutters for large surfaces, they cause out of balance vibrations on large diameters, and must be used with light cuts and great care. A fly cutter is a blade on an arm that swings around as a single cutting point only, at saw 4 inch diameter, used to create large smooth surfaces. Once you are used to ordinary milling , then move on to fly cutting and single point tools. A modification of fly cutting is used for gear cutting, (along with form tools), and as I said before a rotary table is needed, and these days all normal types available to home user come with the full set of division plates required to do cutting like this. Yes, it is quite possible to get small tables without fixed, (but adjustable), divisions, and with these for gear cutting then division plate sets are made or the changewheels of the lathe can be pressed into use to do the divisions. Stephen.

The easy answer is exactly what is your lathe, maker and model or photograph, as the seller is advertising it as Myford fit, and his implies a Myford Seven size, and therefore to take it, the tool holder capacity and height must match within reason. The means it should be a 7 inch capacity and able to take 3/8 inch tools, in other words, a medium to large lathe. If it is a mini lathe, (smaller than the Myford, like a Hobbymat or Sieg, or Cowells, then a smaller mounting type will be needed usually 8 mm or less. If the dimensions are needed, they are the clearance over the tool slide, and the nominal distance from the tool holding slot to the centre line. (x and y) and the tool thickness for the lathe However the quickest way is identify the lathe, and what size tools are normally in use, and we can find the right type. Stephen.

Well we agree then, but I should mention that the Chinese are the casters of both Euro and UK makers lathe beds, and it is merely a matter of checking the purchase, which if it comes from the well known UK suppliers is checked over in the UK and is fully under G/tee. I am not defending blow holes in the casting, I do not know the size of what you mentioned, but minor bed blow holes and marks do not actually affect a lathe, it is the average of the point of contact on any touching surface that matters, this is why nicks and marks can be removed safely from lathe beds, and why a worn lathe can still work fine. As you mention experience I am a trained machinist, and a published author in the ME magazine, I do try to post with as much information as I think the readers can take, qualifying everything to cover what has been said in previous postings would hardly be practical. Stephen.

On milling in general, the cutters are a bit of a mystery to a newcomer, it needs surprisingly few of them to get started. Don't forget a small cutter can cut big channels in a miller, and you could start with one of say 5mm and do lots of work with just that single cutter. If you had say 2mm, 4mm and 6mm this would cover most work. As others said two point HSS slot drills are a good option, they drill as well as side cut, but there is the option of a four blade cutter with cross point that will do the same. These reduce vibration and give a finer surface finish. A true mill cutter will not drill a hole, it can trim a channel in bites, and move sideways and with smaller mills the four blades make the operation smoother than a two blade slot drill. Most cutters in the small sizes can be fitted into a plain arbour blank holder, no chuck or special retainer is needed, a bolt bears on the shank, with an added ground flat spot for security. These fit the Morse tapers in all sizes, and can take the milling machine drawbar to hold them firmly. They can easily have a sleeve fitted, made in the lathe to take odd diameter mills. This system suits smaller mills where Autolock chucks may not fit, or waste a lot of space over the milling table, reducing what can be machined. Any alternative I use, that suits small precision work is to use 3mm shank carbide"burr" mills, they cut anything except diamond, and work without vibration unlike slot drills. A 3mm can cut 12mm deep and any width, so covers a lot of model work like frames etc. A holder can be made in the lathe to fit a morse blank arbour. Burr mills will not drill properly, they do not cut at centre axis, which slot and cross point mills do. They are fragile to heavy blows, but cheap to replace if they break. So with just a very few milling cutters you are up and in action, the main use would be frames as described in the other postings here, along with block frames, footplates, toolboxes, square buffer shanks, motor mounts, and potentially gear cutting, which would require a rotary table and tail post added to the milling table. If the miller is bigger the jobs it does is limited only by size, and bigger cutters can be used for single cuts, and surfacing by fly cutting. In general the attachment columns for the lathes are a bit limited due to the cross slide, and frankly using the lathe as a horizontal miller would be better, all you need is a few cutters, they can be gripped by the three jaw or an arbour, and a milling slide to suit the lathe. Working sideways does not affect what can be done much, and al jobs for smaller scale locomotives could be done on a lathe used as a miller. The next step up is the FE sourced millers, and then the bigger Bridgeport types and copies, price governs the capacity rather than just the quality. There are some dedicated CNC home user millers on the market, Chester do small ones, and a lot of makes can be converted if you want to go down this route. A final point is be wary of any mill with a round column, they may not have a vertical register that works during movement or register at both ends of the column. The better designs of round, like the MD65 have a continuous gib stripped guide rail, like Bridgeport and Brown and Sharp, but some lathe conversion columns do not have this feature. Thankfully there are now lots of smaller mills with square or box columns where this problem is reduced and the full capacity of the miller is available with full movement. Sieg do a selection, Chester, and Warco do them as well. Stephen,

It would be interesting to know what has made these lathes "beyond it", do you mean really unusable?...I have set up about 7 of these if a "3 in one" is included, and none failed. What was wrong to stop using them? Last year I used one regularly and it never gave any trouble of any kind. And I did take the comment quote carefully read , the continuing comment was just an expansion, for other readers, who as I said would be put off by such a lathes size. This was not a comment on your lathe, but as I said and carefully expanded on, a large lathe is not a popular domestic addition!..and especially for railway modellers who already have a large layout in occupation of the house. Stephen.

I have the feeling most Railway Modellers would be plain frightened of such a lathe, (not me, I could use it at once), and would be a bit put off with lack of instant spares or even instruction books!! For small models it does not need a small lathe, but a large lathe needs space and a sound floor, my house was purchased because a ground floor room had a sound level concrete floor, for a dedicated workshop. I needs concrete, the main lathe is 1/4 ton, and there are five smaller lathes and mill as well. This is not going to suit a model enthusiast who just does relatively smaller work. The machine does not need to be new, the Grindturn featured earlier in the thread would suit any ones space. I found the old Unimat One to be wonderful, the tiny machine could manage jobs far beyond basic work, and it a pity it's not still made. It could be put away in a drawer, with it tooling and needed no dedicated position to work with it.....and it turned into a very good milling machine....saw table, ....surface grinder....thread cutter, and a tiny wood lathe as well. The whole thing was " Domestically acceptable"........ This is part why the small Sieg is so good, all right it's too heavy to carry, but it can be moved, and fitted to a small bench is no worst than a domestic sewing machine table. It requires no special floor or mount, any floor will take the weight, even a shed or loft. .....but the same applies to any other small lathe rival. Stephen.

I am assuming the comparison is between the "Clarke 7x10 (Chester conquest), the basic Sieg", and Proxxon, and on the face of it the Proxxon is very good although more expensive and should be. A small but subtle difference though, (and it applies to Unimat, Hobbymat(Saupe), is the size of the morse tapers, which on the Proxxon are Number One Morse. Sieg are much more generous, with number two Morse on the tailstock, and number three morse in the head stock, bigger sizes associated with larger lathes. It makes it easier to buy accessories, they are a Myford size, and gives a generous through clearance in the headstock bearing tube, vital if long work is done. It does not mean that the Proxxon does not take a range of number one accessories but they are more expensive, not so strong, and some things like turrets are not made in number one morse. Number two live centres are cheaper, turrets are made, tailstock die holders etc all in the accepted No2 size. To a newcomer this size issue will seem obscure, but it deeply matters on a good lathe. The small Unimat 3 was crippled a bit by being non standard,(no morse at all), and you were forced to buy Unimat accessories. This does not apply to bigger Unimats, but the morse sizes are all smaller compared to the Sieg equivalent model. Generally I would say do milling in the lathe or buy a dedicated mill. The add on column type work, but the crosslide gives limited movement on all designs compared to a table mill. Stephen.

Newer Unimat motors are better, the Unimat was odd in having an under rated motor on both the Unimat 1 and 3. I got round it on the one with an Elliot replacement, still in use 40 years later. I never found the Uni 3 burnt out, it just had a poor rating for long term use. You can of course put larger motors on the Unimat, a large motor on a board behind the lathe and a long round belt pulley. Also it should be noted that the current Unimat's are made entirely by Sieg in China!! and Sieg supply other makers with the basic Unimat base castings for their own versions. Stephen.

I have just looked up the current Cowells price for the 90ME and should mention it is £1899.00 and this does not include the selection of accessories that Sieg do as standard for under £450. It can be looked at two ways, the Sieg is cheap and nasty, or the Cowells overpriced. If I was expecting to use the lathe professionally then the Cowells is far better., but the Sieg is far from nasty. But for the "Home Machinist" the Sieg does all the Cowell can, and maybe more! It does it in an un sophisticated way, it is less well finished , but has the basic accuracy in the parts. I was trained in testing lathes, and the Siegs I have set up are totally accurate for normal uses. The bed is flat, the parts line up with test bars and indicators, and I could write a test certificate for them easily for precision uses. I found a slightly slack main bearing on one, detectable with a lever multiplied dial gauge, It was adjusted in seconds, and was not easily detectable on a simple dial gauge. It did not affect the work in any way. To improve the bearing Arc Euro do a de-luxe roller bearing, but most users will not need this alternative for normal uses. The Chinese chucks are accurate, very accurate, run out was barely detectable, under half a thou, and the jaws are hard and the body induction hardened, so should retain accuracy for years My Warco 1324 has a Taiwan Chuck, now 20 years old and it is still accurate, these were sourced from Sieg..... I do know what accuracy is and the Lorch has it, but you can't buy such lathes these days except from Shaublin in Switzerland ......and we are in the area of £20000....... Remember, with all lathes it is the operator, not the lathe that does the work, and the standard produced is down to the machinist. In no way will you have to "fight the machine" with the Sieg.... the better machines just make life a bit better than having to put in a bit more thought with the cheaper machines, when they are pressed to their limits. But frankly, model railways is not going to press any small lathe to it's limits, an interest in IC engines might however!!

It's really your chose on a lathe, the more expensive ones are better made and finished, and I should make it clear I have 5 lathes of different sizes, including a tool room small Lorch, but it has given me the experience to see issues with all the lathes. The Emco series are all accurate and well made, as are Proxxon etc., but if starting from scratch these days my first choice would be a Myford, but this is because of an interest in 5 inch gauge locos. It simply does not need a lathe that size for model railways, and smaller types like the C3 are handy size, they can be moved and operate without bolt down if needed. The rivals to the C3 7x10 often use Sieg made chassis blocks any way, they supply Taiwan and Japanese run Korean lathe producers......and some so called European made lathes have Sieg castings in them, even in the UK. With other makes in the main price range of smaller makes service and spares may be the biggest issue, and you should look into how unique the design is and how serviceable without an importer( they do go out of business). The advantage any Sieg has is spares from all "makers" fit all, and nothing is non standard, for instance the makers main bearings are industry standard, and can be replaced in a couple of hours. It is a mechanics lathe, one to do work on, and maintain, fit with extras and generally bring up to standard, but then what standard? It can rival any lathe with attention to details, converted to collets it would rival the Cowells, and the bed and accuracy is the same, but Cowells offer far more in specialist equipment for very precision work, and it has to be said, at a higher price. As you move up from the basic C3 each supplier offers other Sieg models, or their own design, and first look through the range from the supplier, like Warco or Chester, determine what the largest work you expect to do, and decide on a matching machine. I would advise buying from established importers like Chester etc, they have back up and experience. At the other extreme is Myford, very expensive, huge range of accessories and reliable, Cowells are similar, but specialise in clock and watchmakers machines. The other main suppliers in the mid range are the German makes, and these are these days a "combination product", using Chinese made castings , and basic machining and supplying and assembling them in Europe. So it boils down to what you can afford, and the 7x10 variants offer the best value, and being so established now , look like being there for the foreseable future

Also spares examples , including brass Gib strips, well worth while getting as set or making them. ...it results in smoother movements of the slides.http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/C3-Mini-Lathe-Spares

Bearing change for the C3( should you wish)http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projects/C3_BC/pages/index.html They offer these as a special from new as well.

Check out Chronos for selection of additions done inc., the four way tool post. http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Accessories_for_Variable_Speed_Mini_Lathes.html

Now, first, I do not own a C3, but I have set up several for friends etc., and for the size and price it is un-beatable. It is sold under lots of names, Sieg are the Shanghai engineering group who make them in China. The plus points out way any shortcomings, like needing a bit of adjustment and checking over before use, and being a bit basic and old fashioned in some aspects. It is strong, cast iron, and accurate, and comes with good accessories that work across the range of makes. The motor is DC and stepless controllable, a very nice feature.(full reverse). The fittings are absolutely standard in every positive way, nothing unusual, or odd ball. It is all serviceable with the lathe able to make it's own spares etc., and specialist suppliers Euro Arc do more sophisticated bearings and gears should you want to fit them later on. The down side is no proper main saddle lock, no proper lever tailstock lock, and some suppliers have inferior handles. These points can be addressed easily, a home made lock can be made in an afternoon, there are articles on the net on how to do it, any home mechanic can do this job. The Tailstock lock is a simple nut, it can be fitted with a simple ring spanner, or Arc Euro and others do cam lock conversions, or you can make your own from the net. The handles vary some are plastic, some chrome metal, all can be changed later one should you find them awkward. The hole where the lead screw enters the head stock needs a felt/cloth washer fitted, a matter of moments to fit, to prevent swarf and oil getting at the electronics . The Chinese are improving all the time, ensure it is a current supplied one with the best electronics, there were early ones that gave troubles, but all current ones are O.K. and at worse it is replaceable. Chesters version had a US made board which is better, but the standard type is now fully approved and the bugs gone as far as I know. Don't forget that you can have metric or imperial screws as a choice, and you can later add a kit to convert it in minutes from one to the other. The dials are basically metric and do not change, some models have dual, ( but then you should not be using dials to set anything!!). There is a vertical slide as extra for milling, but the machine has the basics with it, and the tapers fitted means anything will fit. Set aside about a day to clean, adjust gib strips, and generally test out the machine and run in the bearings, check over the bed and slide bars for any burrs etc and file these away. Lubricate with car oil, cheap and available!, wipe clean with paraffin and oil mix. If you are a newcomer, do not worry about cooling, the fine cuts you will be making will not overheat, and brass etc needs no lubricant. The picture you see of masses of coolant being used is for production speeds far higher than home use. Also do no worry about the right speed for the material, take it slow and you will not go far wrong, just keep speeds low for steel, and higher for brass. If you do a lot of steel a squeezy bottle of cutting fluid can work wonders for the finish.( or a spot of lard.......) You can buy the interchangeable tool holders, several makes, but do not forget there are plans available free on the net for making your own. There are several specialist enthusiast sites on the 7x10/12 C3 on the net, it is extremely popular in the States, and there are sites for all the areas the lathe can handle.

The picture shows how to grip hex or any even number sided object in a four jaw, but this is difficult to set up accurately, requiring test cuts after setting, and a three jaw in any decent condition will hold it just as well, with near automatic concentricity. For production a round collect would be used with an internal stop on one face if location is required, or a hex form collet would be used in a CNC centre. To machine a true hex concentric with the core or centre the faces would be machined on after the round section is machined, not gripped by the hex shape. Watchmakers grip hex in a two jaw chuck, with V jaws, it runs true as long as the stock material is accurate.

I can only say what I have seen in the past, Chester tools, Sidcup lathes & tools, and lots of s/hand stands. I have bought individual Pultra, Shaublin, Boley and Lorch. As long as the buttress thread matches, most are interchangeable, and range from 6mm, 8mm, 10mm, 12mm drawbar fit. The size range is about 1/2thou to 8 mm. Occasionally turn up on Ebay as well....eg....http://cgi.ebay.co.u...0#ht_1605wt_930 http://cgi.ebay.co.u...cessories_ET&ha http://cgi.ebay.co.u...9#ht_1295wt_930 Stephen.

3 Jaw Chucks are for round work, 4 jaw for square work, and faceplates for awkward odd shape turning or boring holes, and castings, or turning between centres, which methods are all explained more fully on the web or in books. The vital one is the three jaw chuck for day to day use, but you have the luxury of the collets for fine work as well. You could turn out complete wheels sets on the lathe or turn domes etc., all made in the 3 jaw and in brass and steel. Stephen Example of faceplate with body of a chuck being machined on it.

The picture shows the items I queried, plus the fact that the owner has cheekily used the motor spindle as a grindstone/polishing drive. The clamp is for a V block, nothing to do with the lathe as such. The collet set is almost certain to be a Pultra fit type, in 8mm or 10 mm buttress thread, 8mm are more common, and can be bought at model engineering shows. The collet nose looks like the Pultra fit and may be made by them. Lorch collets also fit into Pultra collet chucks.. Stephen

I think I can see a slotted face plate lying in one of the shots on the left, this is a vital item. It is used for odd shape items where a chuck gets in the way, but more to the point it helps identify the thread used for the chucks. As far as I can see the lathe is not a thread cutting version as the main screw is not continued to a position where change gears could be fitted, but again no worry, most threading is done with taps and dies, and you could use this type as a thread chasing lathe like clockmakers and scientific instrument makers do. Stephen.

It is set up as a collet lathe at the moment and was used to make the steel pins in the tray, probably. Each Collet suits a particular round size, and you have a part set, no worry, they are usually standard types and obtainable or you can make them in the lathe itself. Collet holding is the best possible standard of holding small diameter work accurately without damage to the work, and is used by watchmakers and clockmakers a lot. Mild corrosion or rust on them is nothing to worry about, de- rust and oil them. The nose of the Lathe when the collet is removed is threaded to take a back plate and a modern chuck could be fitted if there is not one with the lathe. The first job is to determine the headstock nose thread, usually 8 TPI and find it's diameter, and find a supplier of a back plate or get one made. It may be it matches Myford etc, and life is then easier. The plate is machined on the lathe to take the new chuck, or a S/hand one. Is there a three, (or four), jaw chuck in the boxes? The pointed object is the tailstock centre, fitted to the tailstock end when the chuck is out, and used for " between centre" turning of bars etc. Should all clean up fine, new paint and you have a sound small bench lathe with collets, very useful indeed. Stephen.