LNERandBR

I wouldn't say your in 'the lion's den' here. You are perfectly entitled to have your own opinion of what happened though the season. Everyone wants their favourite driver to do well and there is nothing wrong with that.

In my opinion it takes two to tango. To that end, on the Silverstone incident I still feel it was BOTH drivers at fault as they BOTH could have done more to avoid the collision. The stewards said that Lewis was 'Predominantly' to blame, not that he was 100% to blame. That he went on to then win despite the penalty given is down to his determination. If the roles were reversed I'm sure Max would have done the same.

It was a closely contested championship which obviously causes friction between both Teams involved and both fanbases. What we need to see is better and more consistent decision making on the part of the Stewards. You can argue that there are times when BOTH drivers should have had penalties which were not given.

On cameras, I moved over to a Mirrorless Canon M50 a few years ago now. 

I've had one serious attempt at taking layout photography with it. One of the results of which is below, the Boston MRS's club layout, Tytton Hall Yard:

Very much open to constructive advice on how I could improve. Looking at it now I think I should have removed the couplings from the locomotives at least.

24 minutes ago, blueeighties said:

So how come every other company that sells product manages to set a price from the get go? Just strikes me as exceptionally odd business practise.

Maybe because they've produced other locomotives or stock previously and have some idea of what the production costs will be.

I'm sure the price will be announced when development is far enough along to know exactly what the costs are.

The other thing to remember about the 2021 cars is they were effectively still 2020 cars just with small changes. I think it's this that gave Red Bull a leg up as they didn't need a whole new car, they could just keep developing their 2020 one.

Next year will be interesting, has the title battle taken the wind out of Red Bull and Merc?

What's wrong with finishing a race under safety car?

The track is either safe to race on or not. You cannot mandate a rule that the last lap must be a racing lap as what happens if there is a crash on the penultimate lap? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59681314

I wouldn't say they've struck a deal but from the BBC's reporting it certainly sounds like there's been some discussion between Mercedes and the FIA.

The most important thing is that the rules are looked at and adjusted. The SC procedures should be set in stone so that SC restarts are predictable and reliable. It's the only way that Teams can properly strategize and in a sport that can quite often be complicated for Fans we don't need the SC to be complicated too.

Let's hope that the outcome is a set of rule changes to prevent such an occurrence happening again.

In my opinion, the Safety Car's sole purpose should be to protect Drivers and Marshalls. It shouldn't be used to 'spice up' the show or provide any form of additional entertainment. The restart rules need to be tightened down into a step by step process with none of these 'x overules y' clauses. The track is either safe to race on or it isn't, there is no inbetween.

Yes, one thing Max did do was race hard and clean on that last lap. He had ample opportunity to make certain Lewis couldn't come back at him by using one of his normal 'push him wide' moves.

To be honest, I'm done with all the 'Lewis should have won' or 'Lewis's title was stolen' type of talk. What happened has happened and it cannot (or should not) be changed now.

What is clear to me is the rules around safety car use need to be tightened up. Take away all these 'X rule overrides Y rule'. The process we've grown to know and expect needs to be followed to the latter. 

I do agree that having the lapped cars overtake should be optional. However, once the path has been chosen you shouldn't then be able to change your mind. It also needs to be 'all' lapped cars that are given the opportunity to unlap themselves. If they had who knows if Carlos could have mounted a challenge himself from 3rd place.

Regarding George, I hope that the relationship he has with Lewis is a good one. Whilst nobody likes the No1 and No2 Driver dynamic that's the only way you can fend off a challenge from another Team. 

It would be good to see Lewis pass on his knowledge and prepare George for becoming the Team Leader. Hopefully next year George can be right on Lewis's rear wing to help fight against Red Bull. 

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see George Win too. I just don't want the situation where he's actively fighting Lewis and taking points away that could be needed to fight Max.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59643988

Some very good points in this BBC article. 

I think I've said it already, despite being a Lewis fan I'm no longer bothered that Max won the title. 

What I am bothered about is the overall effects on F1. The race direction needs to change, be that Masi being replaced or the overall way it's done being changed to a team of people rather than just one person.

The problem is, does the FIA understand that what happened was bad? Remember, there's a lot of fans out there who will be very happy that Hamilton was 'prevented' from taking 'yet another' title.

Sometimes the problem with F1 is it gets too complicated when it comes to pit stops and time loss.

It's more complicated when it comes to time then Rallying and thats all based on times 

@Merseycider if Lewis pitted and Max didn't then Lewis would have been behind Max. There wasn't enough time for Lewis to come in, change tyres and get back out.

RB meanwhile had a big enough gap to the cars behind that they could pit without issue.

If Lewis had come in, Max would have stayed out to take the track position. Thats the advantage of being the one doing the chasing. You can react to what your opponent does.

It wasn't clear that the race would restart. So Merc made the best decision they could and based that decision on the normal restart processes.

Almost certainly, if the roles were reversed, you'd now have Red Bull lodging protests and appeals. Meanwhile all the Verstappen fans would be just as upset.

17 minutes ago, PhilH said:

What I am struggling to understand is why anybody would take F1 seriously at present, it’s a circus, a complete farce.

I think the biggest problem is you have no idea what's going to happen anymore if even Safety Car periods can be changed on the fly to suit the spectacle. 

To be honest, I don't even care that Verstappen won now. All I'm worried about is more random changes to the Race Direction just because one Team Principal asked for it.

4 minutes ago, Merseycider said:

Perhaps I'm the only person in the UK who actually witnessed the crash that led to the safety car. Surely the safety car wasn't a disputable rule interpretation, not a rhetorical question, fact. At that point LH was leading and when the race resumed all LH had to do was to stay ahead for ONE lap. Facts. But wait, oh no, JV not only legally but spectacularly overtook  LH to take the win.

 

I strongly suspect that not a single one of the discontented would have raised a whisper if LH had stayed in front to take the win.  So just how would that have tightened up the awful regulations and decision making that everybody's now so expert in interpreting?  After all these are the same regulations that nobody felt particularly bothered about when LH was winning. I smell bad loser only marginally diluted by an ocean of hypocrisy.

 

Listening to all the noise one might as well argue that the crash was pre-determined to manipulate JV chances of winning. But in reality that's all it did, offer a chance not certainty, and the result was actually decided on the track.

 

Just saying.

 

 

The Safety Car coming out was 100% the correct call. That's not what has people upset here.

It's the way that the race was restarted in such a slapdash and confusing way which has gotten people upset. The same processes and procedures should be followed, in exactly the same way every time. Here, they weren't so if feels manufactured in an attempt to 'improve the show'.

As soon as the crash happened I knew Lewis was in trouble. Then Max pitted and I thought 'oh that's it now he'll get past now with better tyres'. 

If all the normal Safety Car processes had been followed, with the lapped cars going though and rejoining the rear of the pack, then Lewis fans, myself included there, would still be upset because Lewis lost. But, I'm sure they'd agree that it was fair racing. 

Right now, it just feels like decisions were made to manufacture the outcome. If there wasn't enough time for all the correct processes then that's as much in the laps of the racing gods as the Crash and Safety Car coming out. 

Pitting under the Safety Car has been a 'thing' for years. Verstappen would have had fresher tyres for a restart even if he hadn't pitted.

One thing that confuses me, do we know why Perez retired?

1 minute ago, Geep7 said:

I think the appeal now shouldn't be about the race result, what's happened on the track is what happened and the stewards have made their decision (rightly or wrongly).

 

What it should be about now is whether the decision made by the race director unduly influenced the race result.

Or has the decisions taken by the Race Director brought the sport into disrepute? 

They often penalise drivers and teams for bringing the sport into disrepute and that's exactly what Masi has done here.

On the BBC's live reporting page they've just asked for people to 'vote' for if they think the decision was correct or not by using the 'thumb up' or 'down' buttons. The 'thumbs down' are well in the lead at the moment!

Nothing wrong with what Max did to be fair. He was given an opportunity and took it, there's nothing wrong with him doing that.

The problem was the way he was given that opportunity. The decisions made were wrong. If the SC period had finished the same way as it's always done before we'd not have all this controversy and upset.

Had the SC been called out a few laps earlier and there been enough time for all the normal unlapping etc then the outcome would have been the same. Lewis was snookered into keeping his old tyres and Max was always going to get past with his fresher rubber.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I feel the results need to stay as they are. I don't much like Max or RB but to be honest what happened wasn't they're decision. When the Safety Car was called they were 100% going to do the opposite of Merc and Merc were snookered into not pitting.

What I do think, and hope, is the Merc protest sees a change in how the Races are directed. As to if that means a change in Race Director I'm not sure. 

All I know is I wouldn't want to be Masi right now because there's going to be a whole lot of people out for his head!

I suspect that lobbying the race director has been going on for years. No end of times we heard Race Engineers say 'We're onto Charlie about it'.

I do feel Masi has been getting more and more out of his depth and couldn't handle the pressure from the Teams as the championship ramped up.

I doubt we'd have had such a change of call from Charlie and it makes me miss him all the more.

Well, at least in their interviews both Max and Horner paid tribute to the hard work of both Lewis and Toto. I therefore feel there is at least some respect from RB towards Merc. 

Sounds like Merc are protesting the result too.

Have now turned off as the Sky Team hand back to C4. Can't be bothered to hear what DC n crew have to say to be honest.

I do feel like Safety Car restarts have become more and more of a farce recently. They always seem so rushed, suddenly springing that it's coming in at the latest moment and then not turning the lights on the SC off until as late as possible either.

To be honest, whilst it's nice to have the insight into the communications between Race control and the teams I kind of think we'd have been better without them here. It feels like the Team Principals are both playing to it as they know that those messages will be played out now.

It was very good to see Lewis, pretty much, going straight to congratulate Max. He also was very composed in his interview.

Personally it feels like the decisions made by Masi were done for the show. It would never have happened like that under Charlie, he would have decided how he was going to restart and stuck to it. Not changed his mind suddenly just to appease Horner.