Ron Ron Ron

The toy train market has undoubtedly shrunk to a fraction of what it once was, but do we know it's no longer viable for Hornby? Is it a market sector they see themselves vacating? Without statements of intent and policy, we don't know. I suspect they will attempt to follow the money, wherever they think it lies. However, I do believe that the tenuous link between the toy train market and the model railway hobby that some people seem to have nostalgic dewy eyes for, has long since been broken. Railway and model railway enthusiast parents and grandparents, buying toy trains for their children or grand children, or exposing them to the hobby at close quarters, are the exception and will undoubtedly have a skewed view on this. .

I go along with that. I asked earlier, who's buying it and why... I haven't a clue really, but I suspect it's more of the second two categories I listed, than the first (children's train sets). Then again I could be totally wrong? An insight from the model shop owners might assist here, bearing in mind that most of the toy sales will taking place through different channels to model shops. .

Personally speaking, I cannot believe there is the size of market, or requirement to sustain three tiers of product quality. It could possibly result in a drain on the manufacturers resources in designing, producing, the logistics and servicing for that many product ranges. Railroad sells apparently, but who buys it and why? Add-on purchases for a child's train set (e.g. purely as toys)? More affordable models for those who can't afford or justify the high detailed models? Some feeling it's Hobson's choice, as there's no alternative available, e.g. Class 87 etc, (i.e. cheap low detail/quality or nothing)? I suspect it's all of those, but I agree, in marketing terms it's a mess. If Hornby are going to stay in the toy/train set market and/or the Railroad market, in addition to the detailed model market, then I agree with many others here that there needs to be a clear delineation between these product sectors. I think we're more likely to see either.... toy/trainset plus detailed models, or.... Railroad plus detailed models. Why should coaches and wagons not be built to the same standard as locos? Other manufacturers have been producing some very good and some high quality wagons for years and it was Bachmann who raised the stakes when their Mk1 appeared on the scene. Should Hornby drop its high detailed, steam era coaching stock? I don't think that would be very popular. With increasing production costs for the very highly detailed wagons, I agree that assembling decent side rakes is becoming an expensive exercise, but that just reflects the current state of play with the Chinese and world economy v.v. the hobby. I also beg to differ on the matter of the HST and the lower spec trailer cars. Many people have been calling out for improved HST Mk3's ever since the re-tooled power cars appeared. There's also been plenty of criticism of the mis-mash of poorly matching Hornby and ex-Lima vehicles in the current Hornby Mk3 range. As Hornby haven't obliged with newly tooled replacements, thankfully another manufacturer has now finally stepped in (Oxford). Incidentally, have you seen any of the higher quality European, or Rapido's coaching stock? EMU's and DMU's may be a hard one, but just compare the overall quality of almost all the DMU's and EMU's Bachmann have produced, against the mostly lacklustre and in some cases extremely dated Hornby offerings. Also, look at what RealTrack have achieved with their Pacer. It can be done. Possibly Hornby should leave this field to others? .

I think you've made a typo there? Class 60 ???? Shouldn't that be Class 66 ? Are they simply following the company line here? I assume they are just typical salesmen and not model aficionados? They couldn't possibly say their company's products are sub-par, could they? .

I've heard the new CEO is coming from Bravissimo. If that's true they'll have lots of experience in dealing with big boys toys.

I saw quite a lot of Tesla Model S' on three separate trips to the USA and Western Canada last year. They seem to be coming quite popular in and around the big cities. Interestingly, there appear to be quite of few of them starting to appear here in the UK, particularly in the South and SE. There are at least 3 somewhere in my neighbourhood, as I see them quite frequently locally. I also spotted two in the same car park in the NW recently...Cheshire, so it must be a fashion thing? I'd be quite tempted myself if it wasn't for the price. .

If the exhaust from Hydrogen Fuel Cell powered cars is H2O... ...with rising sea levels the last thing we'll need is hundreds of millions of cars around the world making even more water. In no time it'll be boats we'll need, not cars.

It struck me too, when people have mentioned the degree brand awareness outside the model railway hobby. Just because some people have heard of it, it doesn't mean they'll be attracted to buying Hornby products. .

Send the suggestion to them, they might just cotton on to the idea. However, would they still try and pull the wool over the customers eyes by packaging a Skimmed model in a Whole box at Jersey prices? .

In what way? Weather and track conditions Engine/throttle adjustable performance characteristics Tyre blow outs Wireless handsets with vibration feedback The ARC Air app. http://www.scalextric.com/uk-en/introducing-arc-air Watch the video on that page. .

Ah! ....the secret is out !!! RMweb Models inc. .

I did notice that according to the recent announcements, although below expectations, at least the European sales have been growing in the last few months, whereas the UK sales are said to have fallen significantly. .

I'm not disagreeing with you. However, I think it's fair to say, that some of the 10 points you've listed, although unpopular here, may have actually been beneficial and have been working, or had the potential to work in the company's favour. Even if only as temporary fixes. We don't know all the facts and even the annual report won't reveal the detail. On the other hand, the whole lot may have been a disaster. We know some of it definitely has been. Ron .

Joseph, Scalextric went digital in 2004, long before Hornby's model trains. Having introduced features like lane changing, fuel loads/management/range and timing facilities, they've since gone on to introduce a Smartphone based race control system. In fact, IIRC Hornby's own DCC systems were designed by the same Cambridge based company who worked on their Scalextric digital system and borrowed from that work. (probably why its cr**) I have a feeling that the same Chinese based manufacturer still makes all their digital products for both brands. As for shops, I'm with Dave. As far as I have seen, Scalextric has a far bigger profile in toy shops than Hornby Trains and has done for many years. In fact the trains are almost non-existent or totally non-existent in many retail toy outlets. I've no idea how popular the slot car brand is today, or how big the sales are, but during the 1990's and prior to the renaissance of Hornby Trains following the move to Chinese production, Scalextric was the bigger brand in the group. The previous CEO said publicly that Scalextric was propping up the model train business, which would have folded without it. Of course times change and I suspect slot car racing is less popular than it once was. I wouldn't be surprised that as a toy, it's also fallen out of favour too. .

I totally agree Dave. It's entirely appropriate he carries the can, but the suggestion was that he "made a hash of it", when the cause or fault might have been elsewhere, or even outside of his control. If that were the case, it won't be the first time, or the last that the most accountable person takes the rap for the failure of others, or due to unforeseen circumstances. We just don't know any of the details and I think it's unwise to speculate. . .

Has Mr. Ames made a hash of it, or has it been circumstances or a failure elsewhere that he either didn't recognise, or wasn't told of earlier? As I said earlier, his departure may have been designed to recover the share price. I can't see how it will change the company's immediate financial situation, other than restore some of its value. .

That isn't news Mike. Although I don't think anyone has mentioned that in this thread, it has been mentioned elsewhere on-line, including on another forum. Many retailers have reduced their orders of have held back or desisted from dealing with Hornby. Do you blame them? .

The removal of the CEO won't change the immediate precarious financial situation Hornby find themselves. The underlying problems are still there and the losses are mounting. If a newly appointed CEO is given the remit to change course and adopt different strategies to those currently in place, any benefits of such a change will take time to filter through and no doubt cost money to implement. How much time will they be given and what short term remedial action will be required of them by the banks? The departure of the CEO would be expected to cause a rally on the share price and thus restore some value in the company. That's useful, if not essential to the major creditors if that value has to be realised in securing or recovering the debts. If restructuring, or selling off bits, or all, of the company is going to be considered, then anything that will pump up the share price is useful. I expect the annual report will be full again of "Jam tomorrow", just like the last 7 years. .

No doubt there will be a generous financial package being handed to the departing CEO. Another £million or two being written off ??? .

The warning was there.... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/9436936/Ladbrokes-fires-digital-director-Richard-Ames-over-botched-strategy.html The stock marker reacts immediately to the news..... http://www.cityam.com/234583/Hornby-chief-executive-richard-ames-is-out-following-profit-warnings-and-concerns-over-its-banking-covenants .

So appointing the ex-Ladbrokes man was a gamble that didn't pay off? .

The £1m write off is a relatively small issue compared with the underlying issue at hand. .

Indeed, there has been massive growth in the commercial side of the hobby. It has never been as big and there are obviously lots of "customers" who are feeding it. Even old stalwarts like Peco, have seen a huge increase in turnover in just the last 5 or 6 years. All that growth is set against a background where the toy train market slumped a couple of decades ago and is even smaller today. May I suggest people should stop obsessing about kiddie's toy train sets and whether children play with toy trains or not. We are talking here about the "grown up's" model train hobby and by and large, the two things have never been more separate and unrelated. No wonder the hobby is seen by most people as sad, or pathetic old men, playing with children's toys and even worst, thinking it's a serious pursuit. Rather than obsessing on what are now marginal toy products aimed at children, which in the main will not lead to many kids growing up as train nuts or becoming participants in the model railway hobby, maybe the emphasis should be on making the hobby an attractive and enticing interest for "grown-ups", if that's not an oxymoron for adults playing with toys. .

...but is it really that vital Chris? Sad it might be, if Hornby is lost, or disappears in its current form to re-emerge in a new incarnation at some point, why would the hobby not carry on? There's always the possibility that those filling the vacuum left, could reinvigorate the market. .

A point conveniently forgotten, when people bemoan the demise of the local stockist. We know that Hornby were almost bust and would have closed down in the very late 1990's. We also know that the moving of production to China and a switch to concentrating on high spec models aimed at the adult modeller and collector market, changed their fortunes for the better. As such they rode a very successful wave for around seven years from the turn of the century, until the crash of 2007/08. During that time, the major British based box shifters also had a boom period and I'm sure most will agree, became the dominate force in model railway retailing in the UK. It was also a period when independent model shops were disappearing at an increasing rate of knots. For good or for bad, bricks and mortar retailers have been in decline for a very long time, long before Hornby effectively demoted them in their own marketing strategy. I agree, it's not the direct internet sales channel that's to blame, but rather how they've mismanaged their relationship with the independent retail trade, in light of the change in the relative importance of those sales channels to Hornby's total sales effort. .