Ron Ron Ron

Hi Nidge, Yes I'm aware of the build quality issues and the rusting (have you seen American cars) and am 100% with you on all that. The "Rugged" i'm referring to relates to the mechanicals, which I understand are reasonably tough. Maybe you can clarify? Nethertheless it's a shame for all the drivers who have to put up with it. How are the new 70's for comfort? Have FL lived up to their promises in putting effort into this aspect of the spec, and have GE delivered? .

Simon, they may be American built, but they don't look anything like American locos. Speaking personally, I don't think the Shed looks any less British than a 58 or a Western, both unique looking locos which were nothing like the other "British" types in their respective era's. Anyway,they're a well entrenched part of the landscape now and will be for years. Like it or not, this is the look of the modern British freight scene. As hard as it may be to accept, the enthusiast's point of view holds no value in the real world. At the end of the day, locos are just machines that are used to do a job; their design and operation should mostly be dictated by business and operational needs. Robust, reliable and relatively simple, the 66's have turned in availability and reliability figures that could have only been dreamed about in BR days. Plus look at the huge savings made by not needing all those depots. In this regard, they are an unqualified success. Unfortunately those who spec'ed the 66's had little regard for the driver environment. IIRC, vibration, noise, ride quality, lack of ventilation and aircon/climate control makes them an uncomfortable place to work in, so we are told. That's more of a shame than how the loco looks. "Spend the money here"? Where, in the UK or the EU ? It may have escaped your notice, but the UK's loco manufacturing capacity has all but gone. The one significant UK manufacturer is Canadian (Bombardier), who only build MU's at their UK plant. The other manufacturer, Brush, have probably lost most of their manufacturing capability following the completion of the Eurotunnel Class 9's some years ago and subsequent running down of the factory. I don't really think hard nosed business men are "duped". They may make the odd wrong decision from time to time, or suppliers may come up short on what they deliver, but this is serious business involving serious money and I don't believe being "duped" has any part in it. The 60's are said to extremely good at their specialised role, that of a heavy hauler. Unfortunately they are over-complex, unreliable and expensive to maintain. They will only be tolerated as long as a business case can be made to offset those issues against their revenue earning capability. I would have thought the only hope for them is if there's a future requirement to obtain new heavy haulers and there's a business case to completely re-build them with new engines and control equipment, rather than buy new. Sadly, my guess is that "new" will be the cheapest option. .

Utd are are completely different case from the other two used in your example. Firstly the owner will not walk away as the club has a very high value (over a Billion ££'s), has a huge annual income and trades at a profit. If the Glazer family wanted out, they would only be interested in selling for a big profit. The problem for Utd is having to divert huge amounts of income to service the debts the Glazers lumped on the club as a result of their leveraged acquisition of Utd. Secondly; of course they need the Champions League income and the huge fan-base, but that's the level at which Utd have always operated at, especially since the formation of the EPL. It's quite a different scenario to that where a club hocks itself up to the eyeballs in an attempt to compete at a higher level (be it the EPL or CL), or depends on a "sugar-daddy" for their survival. One of the other clubs you use in your example, City, are a prime example of a loss making club entirely at the mercy of their rich owner. If the Sheik wasn't there to convert their huge annual losses into equity, they would be in a very precarious state. Back to Pompey; just how much time will the administrator allow, or be allowed to get the club sorted out - a seemingly impossible task unless a genuine buyer comes in ? ...and that seems highly unlikely at the present. .

Bad news indeed. The BBC would have been better off closing down the mega-expensive Radio One and saving an absolute fortune on running costs and paying Radio One "star presenters" obscene amounts of money. It would be no great loss as its output is replicated on dozens of commercial stations nationwide. Don Woody - Barking up the wrong Tree Johnny Burnette - Lonesome Train The Ethiopians- Train to Skaville Live On The Whistle Test .

I've heard two former top flight referees give their verdicts this morning. Not a sending off offence for the reasons given above. The player turned away from goal and then lost control of the ball. If that's considered a lucky call for United, then it was equalled by the straight red foul that only got a yellow card for the Villa right back later on in the first half. With the post preventing two further United goals, the score could have been higher in their favour, despite a below average performance from them. Martin O'Neil has done a good job with the Villa; they're looking like a very strong team, all they lack is flair and some creativity. However United just soaked up their efforts for large parts of the game. .

Klaus Schulze - Timewind .

A band that I've been listening to for a couple of years, Campaign For Quiet a local band from San Diego. They were active during the early "noughties", but seemed to have gone quiet (no pun intended) of late. Until recently their CD's have only been available through CD Baby in the USA, but now they're available as downloads from CD Baby, iTunes and other sources. Albums Campaign For Quiet - Midnight Rock Campaign For Quiet - Welcome Distraction 30 second clips available. .

Last FM .... Hendrix Tag Radio Some very interesting contemporary music. Brilliant ! .

Neal, the FA, FL or the Premiership don't place clubs into administration. Pompey aren't in administration.......yet ! .

Voodoo Six - Take the Blame. ( Currently being heavily played (sic) .... and available as a free download.... on Planet Rock) You can play it here.... http://www.voodoosix.com/index.html .

Just to clarify the situation. The financial results being talked about are for the year ending June 2009. MUFC revenues were substantially up on previous years at UKL 278 million. Before tax profit was UKL 92 million. After tax profit was UKL 47 million These figures include the Ronaldo deal and substantial payments for the ground extensions (the quadrants). The football club operation still runs at a huge profit (UKL47 million after tax) but the holding company, Red Football, is saddled with the huge debt lumped on it by the Glazers. The overall company profit has been reduced to UKL 6.4 million as a result. The soaring interest charges on part of the loans is causing the damage. These are the Payment-In-Kind loans which have a large rate of rising interest attached to them. The PIK loans have grown from UKL 138 million to UKL 202 million and interest alone for last year alone had grown to UKL 68.5 million. The bond issue that was completed last week, has raised UKL 500 million, but UKL 15 million has gone in bank and lawyers fees for the issue and a further UKL 39 million will have to be paid as a penalty for lost interest in paying loans off early. A huge chunk of the "senior debt" owed in straight loans from the banks, will now be paid off. A large chunk of the PIK's loans will also be able to be paid off to. The challenge will be to reduce the remainder of the PIK loans over the next couple of years. Finally to answer Fatadder's assertion that United don't have equity behind the debt. sorry that's just plain nonsense. The assets of the club are worth a huge amount and the value of the club is still being reported around the billion pound mark. .

I've got one of the new model iMacs (desktop processors instead of mobile and the LED backlit HD screen). The standard HDD is 1TB for the model I have. Fantastic machine and I won't have to worry about HD space either, although I also back up to an external drive and CD/DVD ROMs. .

There are a lot of issues surrounding Pompey's financial situation and a certain amount of mystery regarding ownership, past and present. They're in a very bad way and the club isn't really worth much. The Liverpool and United situations are different, even if their depts are huge in comparison. Liverpool not only have a very large debt, they're trading at a very big loss each year. However they're not insolvent yet and the club is still worth something. Man Utd. on the other hand are still a very profitable club and are still valued at up to an estimated billion pounds. Their problem is the debt lumped on to their books by the Glazers leveraged acquisition of the club. An analogy is someone who has an unreasonably large mortgage, can still afford the payments, but interest charges keep going up and up. Unless the debt is reduced, sooner or later some cuts in lifestyle and outgoings will have to be made. If it ever reaches the stage where the Glazers, or the club cannot afford the interest payments, the club will have to be sold, or will simply be taken over by the banks who lent the money and sold off. A process that won't be without pain, but the club won't go out of existence. .

On the topic of "Extra Time"; how much is going to be given to Rafa Benitez ? .

According to the pre-delivery blurb, these first 6 locos are fitted with telemetry and their performance is being remotely monitored by the engineers back at the factory in Erie. Sort of operational test beds if you like. .

Prog Rock - Gentle Giant revival - Three Friends consists of 3 original members plus 3 new musicians. Every time I look, there are more THREE FRIENDS videos being added to YouTube. I hadn't a clue that you could get such impressive videos from YouTube until I watched these on my new iMac, with its 21.5" 1080p LED lit HD screen. It's a shame not all YouTube content is this good.

Yes they have AC traction motors, Bogie frames manufactured in Austria and I think the engine is a European design too? .

There's an assumption here that "Diesel" powerplants will remain the same as they have been and that the alternative is to switch to electric, but this ignores various changes that are happenning or could be done to improve the emissions and fuel consumption of "Self powered" traction. As an example, the new class 70, like many new types being built or planned, has been designed to be more fuel efficient and as a result is supposed to produce less nasties out of its exhaust. But that's just the beginning. There's a lot of work being done by the manufacturers to find ways of making much bigger reductions in CO2, not only from straight diesel but from "Diesel Hybrid" and other "Self-Powered" trains/locos. This is not a UK-only issue and as pointed out, putting up wires all over is not only impractical on some parts of the UK network, it is very unlikely that it will ever happen on large parts of the planets railways. Self-Power is here to stay (well...until everything goes "t**s-up") even if the UK become predominantly electric for powering its railways. Diesel-Hybrid (Diesel + Batteries + re-generative brakes etc) is one area actively being developed at the moment for diesel locos, but I suppose it's possible to look at Bi-Mode power using Diesel-Hybrid and Electric if it can be squeezed into a reasonably sized package. The Hitachi SET's due to be ordered for the Inter-City Express Programme (IEP) can be configured in such a Bi-Mode for mixed electricified and non-electrified routes, but it requires two power-supply vehicles and distributed traction. Stuffing that all into a necessarily heavy freight loco may be a bit of a challenge. (some clever s*d will probably mention the class 73 after this... ) For the same reasons I gave above, there will still always be a need for "Self-Powered" trains and that includes passenger MU's, whether powered by diesel or alternative means. New rules and market forces (fuel prices) will require that significant change is now required in the way that these are built and powered. In yesterdays "Times" newspaper there was a series of articles covering these sort of issues and rail was specifically discussed in a couple of those. As an example of what is being looked at.... Seimens' new Desiro City - 25% lighter than the current Desiro fleet. The diesel version (these are produced for European and worldwide markets too) would also employ technology to reduce fuel consumption and emissions by a significant amount. Other developments that may be utilised in new "Self-Powered" trains include.... exhaust heat energy recovery and more efficient turbo-charging, diesel hybrid engines, alternative fuels such as future 2nd and 3rd gen Bio-fuels, Fuel-Cell power, automatic Stop-Start engine control, computer assisted engine/driving management linked to timetable and signalling control, lighter construction and interior fitments (e.g. using composite materials) and more energy efficient on-board systems and services. Even with the large benefits of switching to electric power, some of these developments will be of benefit to EMU's too. .

Thanks for that Martyn. Yes they have won or regained quite a few contracts in the UK this last year, which does seem to reverse their fortunes over the last few years. It' may be a sign that the new management is turning things round. However it doesn't alter the fact that they bought EWS primarily for ECS. So far UK operations don't appear to be part of the larger European scheme and as I said, only time will tell if they serious, in the sense of integrating UK operations into their wider strategic plan; or is DBS UK just regarded as a branch line operation? .

No you're not muddled Dave. it is Transfesa. DBS bought the majority shareholding around the same time as they aquired EWS and ECR. The freight flows from Spain and Portugal to Germany and other Northern countries is said to have been a key reason for them expanding into France through the purchase of EWS. That and gaining open access rights in France and Belgium has probably made DBS the No.1 freight and logistics company in Europe. Apart from the Ford train, the scope for daily, or almost daily flows to the UK must be quite significant considering the number of lorry loads coming into the UK from the Iberian Peninsula. DBS must be ideally placed to bid for this traffic, but so far Zilch! I think we can each judge for ourselves if DBS have any serious interest in their UK branch. .

If DBS decide to order a replacement for the Tugs, rather than re-build them or do without; I suppose there's always the possibilty of another type being introduced, such as a slimmed down European gauge loco, GM's new replacement for the Shed or a Chinese cheapy. On the Green note.... You may not be aware that GE, GM and others are now busy working on Hybrid power for the next generation of "self-powered" locos. .

Maybe EWS employees have a better insight here, but your interpretation tally's with my own (simply gleened from the railway media, internet and rail forums). After Canadian National took over in 2001, did EWS lose its way? As you say EWS just happened to come with the package and were not the reason they bought Wisconsin Central. (IIRC CN only owned 31% of EWS, the majority was owned by two investment groups) Certainly staff complaints and moans about management actions, inactions and decision making indicated a lack of clear direction. The six years under CN also saw the rise of a greatly expanded Freightliner and other serious competitors such as GBRf and DRS. I would have thought that poor leadership and lack of direction don't exactly help if you're trying to fend off the opposition? ....and yes, DB bought EWS for their Euro Cargo Rail subsiduary and that companies European running rights. Apart from direct access to French markets, DB has access right into Spain via it's majority ownership of Transfesa. So EWS was effectively bought so that DB could aquire a major chunk of the rail freight capacity linking SW Europe, through France into Germany, Central and Northern Europe. Only time will tell if they are really interested in their UK freight operations. .

If I remember correctly; wasn't that possibilty mentioned by one of the top EWS boys in one of the "mags" a while back? .

Everything governed by the ?? ? Mmmm? Of course it is, it is a business after all. The very reason for which the railways were built in the first place. Taking on and sorting out virtually the whole of BR's freight empire (outside of Freightliner) must have been a massively difficult task. I'm sure some would have said a task almost doomed to fail given the inheritance that came with it. That burden is something that the new start-up FOC's and a rejuvinated FL haven't have to carry. Getting rid of the huge fleet of 1950/60's era geriatric locos was a given, but the remaining "newer" stock (56, 58, 60's ) clearly were a liability too, despite the relatively junior age of the latter two types. With their low levels of reliabilty and availability, coupled to the resulting high maintenance costs, it's no suprise that the 56's and 58's were withdrawn. Plus you have to consider the effect on rail freight needs caused by the closure of most of the UK's coal mines and the run down of our heavy industry. On the other hand (well the way it looks to me ), the class 60 story is bit of a mixed and rather sad one. The newest and most modern ex-BR diesel loco in EWS/DBS's fleet, you'd have thought it would have had a decent future ahead of it? . Despite the many early problems (didn't it involve the largest number of warranty claims ever made by BR on a single contract ? ), the concensus appears to be that it's a well made and solid performer. However I think the 60 may well epitomise many of the negative aspects of the former state railway when it comes to ordering new equipment. If the story is correct, BR adopted a "knobs & whistles" approach to specifying this loco, resulting in what is arguably an over-engineered and complex machine. Whatever thought was given to reliabilty and future maintenance requirements, clearly it wasn't sufficient for economic operation in an open market. You do have to question if that was the right sort of approach compared with say, the class 59 (rugged, durable, relatively simple with just enough high-tech to do the job). Anyway, at the end of the day harping on about the past is of no use whatsoever. Like any company, DBS has to look at its current and future business and organise its assets accordingly. Whatever the recent history of the company and this loco class, the fact is they have a tired fleet of 60's, many of which have been out of service for quite a while. If they have a future need for this type of loco post-recession, then at some point they'll either have to spend some money on restoring them to a satisfactory condition, or look at bringing in a replacement type. I read somewhere that the options were looked at quite a while back; and range from major overhaul to a complete rebuild with new engines and electronics (that includes replacing the electronic traction control stuff too). I assume that the more that needs to be done, the greater the attraction of a complete replacement becomes. Another possible option is not to bother either way and not have a "heavy-hauler", but personally I can't see that being a long term situation for such a large operator. Who knows? Before dismissing it as an option, it might be worth reflecting on the possibility that it might make more sense to just continue double-heading the few services that need that sort of power? Whatever DBS do, it has to be the right decision for them and if the 60's do go, so be it; that will be the right decision full stop! As a non-spotting, slightly enthusiast, interested in the railways type of person , I find it all a bit sad as these are my favourite diesel freight locos. But the reality is that sentiment matters not one jot. It would be nice if they go for the complete re-build though. .

Dave's post has already been corrected by Phil, Phil and Martyn, but if I may add just a couple of comments.... As the guys have already pointed out, the FOC's don't have, or operate under franchises. They are open access operators. AFAIK, once licenced to operate, they are free to bid for any contract going and are only restricted by the availability of suitable paths (OK I know there's a bit more to it, but it's effectively open competition). As far as locos are concerned, where they don't own them outright (e.g. EWS/DBS's ex-BR fleet, DRS heritage locos etc.), then they lease them from ROSCO's, manufacturers or the banks. There's no public money involved. In effect, Freight is the only truly privatised part of the railway. They are completely exposed.... and as there's plenty of competition, it's unlikely that any of them would be saved by the public purse if they ran into trouble. The passenger carrying side isn't immune from the market either (GNER, NXEC !). The only difference is that government has to step in to maintain a service and organise a replacement operator. I thought of that when I typed that post. "Private company" ??? It is one of those "muddied" areas, but even though they are constituted like any privately owned business and operate accordingly, ultimately they are publicly owned. There currently are and previously have been a number of similar examples in other areas of interest. I have a sneaky suspicion that the different parts of DRS's operation are subject to different commercial disciplines (i.e. the Nuclear stuff), but I may be entirely wrong? The commercial reality of life in the real world? Enthusiasts may not like it, but locos are nothing but machinery; assets employed in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise. It only matters that they are effective in both cost and productiveness. Does anyone get worked up if DBS retire any of their lorries or forklift trucks? (....runs for cover.... ) .