Ceptic

Sorry fellas but you are wrong. Continental companies such as Roco have been selling dummy EMUs and locos for years at substantially lower prices to the customer. Presumably it has made sound business sense otherwise they would have ditched the idea years ago. As far as one can ascertain, Roco is a much smaller company than Hornby, so the conjecture is that if a smaller company can do this why can't a bigger one, unless of course the doubting Thomas' amongst us would like it to be as their edict states? Colin I'm right behind you on this one.

 

Cheers

Simon

And I'm right behind you both.

You're right! I had assumed that, like all other recent EMUs, it would have lighting but it appears not....

Even the old Triang SUB had headcode lighting !!

OK, I'm waving the white flag on the subject of 2 BILs as trailer units.

 

Colin

Nooo, Colin. Don't give up !!

i reckon it would very easy for Hornby to produce an un-powered 2-BIL*, if they so wished.

They've caught on, so far, to producing 2 reasonable models of pre / post nationalization SR /BR(S) Emus, and I hope the response to these, rewards their efforts.

*Would it not be easier for Hornby to use the DTC's u/frame ? I'm pretty sure the DMBT's equipment is plug-in. All it needs is the frames / wheels of the motor bogie.

As always, with Hornby, we'll have to play 'Wait 'n see.'

All the Best for Christmas and the New Year.

Frank.

Are Hornby going to do a model of that one then ?

One way of getting rid of those rivets. I s'pose.

On a more serious note, there were other incidents / accidents involving 2-BILs running the West Coastway route... IIRC, one was a rear end collision at Ford, in the early '50s, and a later one, at Angmering, where an Emu formation, including a 2-BIL, hit a Southdown 'bus, in fog, on the level crossing, there.

Not a subject to dwell on, or make light of, but, it's strange how these things stick in the mind.

Regards.

Have I got this right ? The buffers on the Olive models have flat tops and bottoms and oval ends , the BR versions are pure oval. Is this correct ?

I hope I'm right in saying this, 'The NRM, early BR version, appears to have the flat top / bottomed oval buffers'. We'll find out, soon enough.

All the best

Thanks for the nostalgia Chris. I went to Strodes [1959-66] but used to travel on the 18 to Weybridge [2-EPBs] and then onto the SW main line. I've no third rail and I model post-war GWR but my BR 2-BIL is on order!!

I remember them best on the Brighton - Portsmouth Harbour, 60 (Semi-fast) / 62 (Slow).

This is in the days of the 2-NOL Brighton - West Worthing 'Flyer', Number 1. Much easier to bunk, being non corridor. (Not that I'm advocating such behaviour, of course)

Getting a sound decoder and speaker in there will be a challenge. I'm imagining it'll present the same problems as the Brighton Belle.

Simplest & cheapest way would be to fit knurled wheels to the motor bogie, like the old Triang SUB. That way you get the grinding whine and the sparks

They really are the same green! Look at the illustrations in Hornby's own announcement:

 

 

 

One difference I've noticed is there's no "I" on the doors to identify first-class on the NRM version.

 

I've pre-ordered one of each so when I get them I'll be able to give a definitive response!

2134, still. looks darker, to me.... If they're both the same colour,... then,... one of 'em's wrong.

As you say, we'll wait and see..

All the best for Christmas, .. Ceptic

Hi

I thought it might be of interest to some to give a brief note about the 2Bil liveries carried. If more detail is required- ie dates- then shout up and I'll be happy to supply it.

 

GFYE- Those listed in bold italics feature the yellow ends wrapping back as far as the cab door but not including it. The others feature an application of the full yellow end where the yellow is only partially wrapped round as far as the cab/body join line. 2090 in preservation carried 'partial wrapround' full yellow ends. They can be seen here: http://upload.wikime...ks_open_day.jpg

 

2003/05/09/10/11/21/26/28/38/48/50/52/53/55/56/57/58/60/65/74/78/79/83/89/90/93/96

2113/116/121/130/137/141/146/147/150/151

 

BFYE- the full yellow end was also only partially wrapped round as far as the cab/body join line rather than extend as far as the cab doors as on some of the GFYE examples noted above:

 

2016/21/22/24/25/32-34/36/43/52/58/62/64/67/72/75/80/86/90/98/99

2101/103/104/111/112/123/132/133-135/137/139-141/147/149

 

The following all retained GSYP on withdrawal:

2001/02/04/06-08/12-15/17-20/23/27/29-31/35/37/39-42/44-47/49/51/54/59/61/63/66/68-71/73/76/77/81/82/84/85/87/88/91/92/94/95/97

2100/102/105-110/114/115/117-120/122/124-129/131/136/138/142-145/148/152

 

As far as I am aware no 2Bil carried BSYP.

 

I trust the above is useful.

Many thanks, Natalie

Is there, by any chance, you can go further back ?.

I would be interested to know why the NRM chose to re-paint their 2-BIL in the lighter Green, as opposed to the BR(S) Green with FYEs ?

Compare Andy Y's and Miss Prism's pics of the 2-BIL at Shildon, with other's, and my pics, taken at Woking , when the unit was allowed out.

Also raises the question,. Where does one go, these days, to get a sound recording of a SR Emu on the Juice ??

Regards, Frank.

With 2BIL having a much improved motor drive and chassis I hope that Hornby will consier upgrading the 4VEP to the same standard, however how many RMweb members would be interested in purchacing an upgraded model?

 

XF

Me,

but, it better be good.

XF,

 

A. Sell the Hornby 2 BIL bodies on ebay (but keep the interiors. With the proceeds, buy Branchlines etched sides, cabs and body detailing packs. Don't know where you would get the roofs.

 

B. Alternatively still sell bodies, buy Plastikard in various thicknesses. Purchase sharp knife and bottle of Liquid Poly.

 

C. Wait and hope that Hornby sell so many 2 BILs that they are inspired to produce a RTR 2 HAL using the same chassis!

 

All the best (and don't wait for option C.)

 

Colin

Possibly use a couple off second-hand Hornby Mk.1s. These are much the same profile. Just need cutting to length, end domes fabricated, the over-sized gutters + vents shaved down and all the HAL's roof details added.

They both look the same to me. Two photographs taken at different times when the lighting was not identical. The earlier green was much lighter and could be clearly distinguished. Besides, both motor coaches have the later BR coach emblem: if one of the units was in the earlier green it would surely have the earlier lion-and-wheel item as well?

The two wouldn't necessarily be photos, knowing Hornby's prolific use of artist's (CAD) impressions for their side elevations.

I'm sticking with my view,...two different Greens.

Compare the forth and fifth pics in Andy Y's preview.

http://www.rmweb.co....-announcements/

Yes, and no...

 

Hmmmmm.

I see what you mean, It does look like a porthole on a battleship.

P.S.

Did someone mention rivets ?

Hi all.

Re :- The BR Green liveries

When the two Hornby versions are put alongside, you'll notice that the NRM model is lighter in colour.

http://www.Hornby.co...-2-car-emu-nrm/

NRM

http://www.Hornby.co...l-car-emu-pack/

BR

The NRM 2-BIL has, since being at Shildon, been re-painted into, what looks to be, post-war Malachite, or a shade known as 'Electric Green'. One time, produced by Phoenix.

This is the colour I remember as a kid, albeit weathered with soot & crud. It used to fade into a shade resembling a greenish Turquoise.

You'll also notice that the NRM version carries the oblong shanked, straight sided oval buffers, as originally fitted (See SR version)

The BR model carries the heavy-duty, self-contained buffers.

On the NRM model, spot the earlier scroll written van weight limit.... I'm not sure about the Coaching stock roundel. I thought that came later.

If any crests were applied at that time, it would have been a small 'Lion on wheel' emblem. The 'Cream' 1st. class indication stripe didn't appear until the early / mid Sixties.

All the same....Not bad, Hornby,...Not bad, at all.

Regards, Frank.

A couple of comparative shots, showing just how confusing it can become (Especially if you rely on preserved locos)

34007 'WADEBRIDGE' again, showing correct 8'- 6" wide cab, although, with a 9' wide tender. (Tenders did get swopped around)

34067 'TANGMERE' with 9' wide cab. As built, this loco had an 8'- 6" wide cab, as did all WCs & BoBs up to, and including No. 21C170 / 34070.

Hi Dapol Dave.

Re :- Front end Cowl & Deflectors.

Have a look at these pictures*.

http://www.semgonlin...team/blp02.html

You''ll notice that the cowl has a flatter top to it and doesn't follow the radius of the top of the boiler cladding.

Also, the smoke deflectors did vary. When viewed head-on. they ranged from near flat, to the pronounced curvature shown in your Cadcam view.

As noted elsewhere, there are, also, the differing lengths to contend with, depending on loco and era.

*I'll have a look out for a decent frontal shot. If found, I'll edit in the link.

Regards.

* Edit :-

One head-on shot found, can be seen be seen by scrolling down, approx / nearly 1/2 way, on this page of David Heys' excellent website..

http://www.davidheys....com/page13.htm.

All the best,

Frank.

Regarding the tapering sides. According to the new Modern Locomotives Illustrated No 198 Electro Diesels Classes 73 and 74 "the locomotive body sides were basically flat, being 8ft 2in (2.49m) wide at the the sole bar, sloping in to 7ft 10in (2.39m) at the cantrail, thus allowing access over the majority of SR lines. The drawings in this issue show the bogies just wider than the body. Hope this helps.

 

Gerry

 

Eagerly awaiting the 73. And the 4 Sub. (Well someone's got to do this iconic SR emu!)

The bogies are a 'nadgers' too wide aren't they? Just a 'nadgers' mind ;-)

References to hand, back up your dimensions, Gerry.

8' - 2" max. body width, at top of buffer beam level, with a slight turn-under to sole-bar. This is shown tapering to 7' -10 1/4" at cant rail level.

Also shown, is, 8' - 8" over footsteps.

So, a 'Nadger's' should be approx. 2mm. in OO, or 1mm. each side.

Welsh 'Nadgers' look to be slightly larger than a Southern 'Gnat's Goolies', or is this, just wishful thinking ?.

Regards,

Frank.

Many thanks for those cad images Dave.

It' s hard to tell, for sure, from the head on pic., but, I think the front / sides should have a very slight taper in, from solebar, to the the roof.

Also, comparing with Godfrey Glyn's photo and a... (Ahem..Cough !) Lima 73, the bogie width & steps look to be decidedly chunky. I.e. Out of guage.

I wouldn't like to see it riding up any platform ramp.

Regards,

Frank

Hi Shortliner.

Now, there's a funny thing,... talk about coincidences.

I used to deliver your proverbial 'Eastmans' package to an address in Carlton Road. Can't remember the number. Somewhere halfway along, on the RH side, from Southcote Rd. ISTR

.And Saturday morning, at the Odeon...late 1940s... Yep, I was there.... Used to call in for my mate Geoff, in Portchester.Rd, through a cut, have a quick look over the Central's up side railings, then, along the Holdenhurst Rd and cut through, around the back of the fire station, over the bomb site*, across the Christchurch Rd., and join the queue.

The main news feature, as I remember, was all 'Brumas the Bear' (The first Polar Bear cub to be born in London Zoo). I can still remember the sing-along..."B-R-U-M-A-S, That spells Brumas....."....follow the bouncing ball...

Did you ever get presented with your 'Odeon' regulars badge ?

Dear me. ..What days....

Thanks for the memories, Shortliner

.*That must have been the bomb that hit the Metropole Hotel, in May 1943

 

 

 

Having just come across this site I just could not resist correcting some facts about who it was built for and occupied by .

 

It was built around 1948 for Eldridge Pope, Dorchester Brewers, in fact we had some lodgers who worked for Waygood Otis and were installing the lift which was in the tower on the building and Kellys 1965 still lists Eldridge Pope as the occupier, Latter years around 1975 it became a South Coast depot for Astbury and Maddley a Midland heavy duty plumbing distributor and when I say heavy up to 12" pipe and fittings or even bigger, all goods brought by road from Birmingham the siding was not used. This building was demolished a few years back when acquired by Dave Wells Properties and a new office depot complex built.

 

The model is a good reproduction but I certain it was of a buff brick construction I may have a photo taken from St Clements Church Tower. Murphy law just found it had just been demolished 2008 and was a heap of rubble

 

With reference Brickwoods (in my opinion the bilge water from Pompey Harbour) in Windham Road they were taken over by Whitbreads and moved to Romsey the building was then taken over by Ace Office Supplies. I dont believe Whitbreads ever used the St Clements Road site.

Lived all my life within yards of these.

 

I do have some images that if I could attach would illustrate some older buildings such as the gate keepers cottage when Cleveland Road was a level crossing

 

A much delayed welcome to RMweb, Major's Batman. Please accept my apologies for not replying sooner.

I must admit to getting somewhat confused regarding my descriptions of the buildings. Fading memories ?

Many thanks for setting me straight with your extra information and photos. Duly noted and amended.

Indeed, the building modelled is that of the Eldridge Pope depot. If viewed from the other side (using a mirror?) you'll see a hand painted headboard depicting 'Eldridge Pope, Huntsmsns Ales

Members of the Group visited the Eldridge Pope warehouse in the late 1980s. In fact, the chap behind the desk, there, was, himself, a railway enthusiast.

Maybe Dave Wells ?.

They describe it as being constructed from pre-fabricated concrete. That's the impression I got from a passing train. The trackside facia and platform resembled that of a lengthened SR Provender store. The platform, itself, looked to be constructed from sections of those produced by SR's Exmouth Junction concrete works.

Judging by maps and G.A. Pryer's & A.V. Paul's 'Track Layout Diagrams', the siding served two buildings. The other being 'Stonecrete' ? or 'Ferrocrete' ?.

The layout diagram states 'Stonecrete'. I've checked in Kelly's, but neither are listed

Your building date of 1948 ties in with this 1947 aerial photo, where the site looks to be under development.

The two buildings are shown in this 2007 Google shot.

Moving on to the 'Swifts' building, seen behind the trolleybus, in your photo (The Group have this pic. and plan to model this scene),

I can remember the Green tiled top fascia of the frontage with it's Swift in the circular panel, but, can you remember the wording ?

As a kid, I used to have a Saturday morning delivery job at 'Eastmans' the butchers, across the road, in the late 1950s. X marks the non-existent spot in this 1983 shot.

'Eastmans' were part of the Dewhurst chain and they also had a large cold store, in the jumble of buildings behind the shop. I recall a rep. (from Swifts ?) visiting the shop to check / maintain the scales. Were Swifts part of the American company ?, British 'Swift & Swallow' ? or 'Weddal Swift' ?

A parting aerial shot of the station, pre-1928 extension, showing the Bournemouth 'A' box and both down-side bays.

Again, many thanks Majors Batman and sorry for the late reply.

Cheers, Frank.

Hello Frank. This is the first time I've looked at your layout - the January posting with the viaduct photos caught me eye. Splendid. It's taken me 7 weeks (so far) to build 2 viaducts of my own, so I can appreciate the time it took to build yours.

 

What process was used to make the trees, as in the golf course etc in your December 14, 2011 post? They are beautifully done and I may need a few examples of a similar size. I'll keep an eye on this thread as it develops.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

Hello Jeff,.. I'm pleased to make your acquaintance.

Now, to explain my position regarding the BCMRG's layout. I am merely the middle-man.

I act, with their permission, to release up-dates onto this forum.

I have nothing to do with the high standards of modelling displayed, although, I have kept in touch when times have demanded it.

Recent phone calls have resulted in the following response regarding the layout's trees.

Each tree is, individually, hand crafted, based on the Group's surveys of the area.

Here's the gist...The basic method is to use telescopic brass tubing as the spine / trunk of the tree and adding / soldering the stripped wire core of an electric cable to the outside., leaving 2", or so, clear at it's base and where you need a branch sprouting. Once the shape has been sorted, the trunk / thick branches can be covered with tape (Masking, or somesuch)

To give this armature support, and re moveability, a locating mount needs to be fabricated, depending on the trunk tube's diameter and where it's located, on the flat, or, on an embankment.

This sketch might prove helpful.

HTH

Regards, Frank.

P.S. The group may have to consider getting professional help with the 'Monkey Puzzle' trees. of which, there are quite a few in the area.

Cheers

A belated Hello.... and my profound apologies to darren01, Physicsman and The Major's Batman, for not responding earlier.

I try to put it down to my being easily distracted,... i.e...Easily Led (According to my school report\)

Right...First things, first...

Darren01, ..To model a station of this size, is one heck of a (long term) project. I gather you've got the space,.. but have you got the team, friends, back-up, to keep it progressing ?.

i've still got my plans of a loft based layout, modelling the line, Westward, from the Central, including the Bourne Valley triangle's viaducts, into Bournemouth West.

This was going to be a 'One Man Job'...But...as years went by, it sooner , or later...became clear that it was never going to happen.

I've, since brought the B'm'th West section downstairs and that's what I'm working on.

Let us know how you're getting on.

Regards, Frank

The last remnants of the 1874 built, Bournemouth New Station's (West) Refreshment Room(s). Ex- Poole and Bournemouth Railway.

This single storey frontage once faced the station. The eastern (LH) extremities were later incorporated into the Queens Hotel. (Now 'The Pig & Whistle') The western facade once had a gabled bay window, matching the entrance, with a semi-circular bow window on the end wall. As you can see, this section was rebuilt, some time later. The building contained, L to R, Bar / Bar Parlour / Dining Room / Refreshment Room.

The two storey building, behind, the roof of which, can be just seen, is also part of the original structure.

These rear views show the one-time Sitting Room / Kitchen / Scullery / Larder / Coal House / Yard & WC, with living accommodation upstairs.

The view from the 'Pig and Whistle's Beer Garden.

Some 1874 brickwork ?

Edit....Oops....One pint, too many....Hic!.

Good news. It appears that I am what the locals might call a "tete de Richard". Now this is no surprise to most RMwebbers, but clearly is to me. For the last 8 years, my Skoda has sat in our yard with the key in the ignition. Why? Well, what sort of Frenchman would want a RHD Skoda? Theft implausible! The routine, nevertheless, is to pull the key out after parking - then replace it. This turns off everything. I suspect I failed to do the last step when I parked it in its current repose covering the electric fence gap in the wooden fence - i.e. the bit where the dobbins might decide to force an exit. Thus battery is impressively flat, having been drained by all sorts of systems you don't know you've got, over several days - and is now on charge.

 

For the benefit of any kind soul suggesting my recent emotional upheaval might be the explanation, I do recall telling a then-lucid Deb about having parked it thus. No excuse!

Ian,...Keep Deb's, and Your key,.. in the ignition,.....Please.

Don't know what else to say, Man... other than, .....Remember Her.