Flood

Slightly off topic but this photo shows that a Mk2A TSO still had the numbers and emblems reversed in May 1991. Copyright RobT653 on Flickr

I've now checked the 1988 Platform 5 Coaching Stock book and 17107 was allocated to NWRA like all the other Laira Mk2A BFKs. It was withdrawn on 29 March 1988 so only had about 6 months officially allocated to Waterloo - Exeter services. I went for a two day trip at Easter 1987 (21st and 22nd April) with my friends and, from one of whom, I made the following notes: 50016; 5255, 5303, 5336, 6502, 17081, 17096, 5447, 5408, 5465 50010; 5261 I, 5462, 5443, 17070, 17086, 6500, 5480, 5459, 5254 50041; 3924, 3848, 4392, 13399, 35010, 5290, 3829, 95201, 93235 50047; 5496, 5450, 5477, 17107 I, 17082, 6504 I, 5466, 5278, 5246 50050; 5345, 5471, 5453, 6503, 17074, 17058, 5468, 5454, 5435 All coaches in black were blue and grey, those in blue were full NSE. 5261, 17107 and 6504 were still branded Inter-City, all the other blue and grey coaches had small NSE branding. 6502, 5465 and 5435 kept their silver window framing, all the other NSE coaches listed had them painted blue. 5248 (no branding), 5433, 5468, 5471, 17076, 17080 and 17086 also had silver frames. Whether any of the frames were subsequently painted over I don't know. The Southern Region air brake Mk1 stock behind 50041 were reallocated, or scrapped, from the start of the May timetable that year. 17082, 5454 and 5435 were from the original batch of repaints which had numbers to the left of the coach and NetworkSouthEast to the right. Others were 5265, 5303, 5381, 5448, 5462, 17069, 17073, 17079 and 17086. At least one Mk2A TSO was still in this style in May 1991 (see subsequent post). Also one Mk2Z TSO (5118) was never changed but that wasn't a Waterloo - Exeter coach. So to answer your question I'm sure that 17107 never received full NSE but I honestly don't know about the NSE branding (although I would have guessed so).

I certainly caught 17107 and 17109 in Waterloo - Exeter trains in the mid 1980s. Both were allocated to Laira in the 1985 Pocket Book and the following rake was seen at Exeter on 23 June 1985: 50028; 6512, 5457, 5474, 6503, 17107, 17080, 5486, 5468, 5481 @brushman47544 is correct strictly speaking. Coaches were in a general regional pool until around 1987/88 so neither 17107 or 17109 would have been officially allocated to Waterloo - Exeter duties. That said I remember them being used with the Mk2A BFKs on that line on a regular basis.

Plymouth had portion working until 1979 with a catering coach, first class coach and second class coach being taken off before heading into Cornwall and being added when heading East.

Those starting with a 1 are for express passenger, those with a 2 are local passenger trains. 0 is light engine, 7 and 8 are partially fitted freights. 6 was used for 60mph freights from 1974. I'm not sure of the exact use before that but it would have been a fully fitted freight of some kind. 3 was express parcels. A is towards London, C was used for South Wales (and also west of Bristol up to 1971), B is Bristol area (and Devon and Cornwall after 1971), V is terminates on the Western Region (after running through another region at some point), M is terminates on the Midland Reagion. H and T I don't know, F would have been a specific area code but I'm not sure where (something tells me possibly Oxford). The last 2 digits are individual train numbers.

@SRman Waterloo - Exeter rakes nearly always had a pair of BFKs together from the commencement of Mk2 air braked stock in 1979/80. From 1989 they moved the TSOT to be between the two BFKs. Originally all but two of the BFKs were Mk2A with only 14107 and 14109 (17107, 17109) being Mk2B. From mid 1988 Mk2C BFKs started to allocated as well. When the Waterloo- Salisbury 6/7 coach rakes went to Mk2 stock in 1989 they were based at Eastleigh and normally had an FK plus BFK in the rake. @BR Blue The destination board hangers were still present on the original Western Region allocated Mk2A, 2B and 2E stock until around 1979. Obviously any stock that was cascaded from the other regions were not fitted with them (a large batch of Mk2A TSOs and BFKs in 1976) so you had some with and some without. The boards themselves do not seem to have been used for very long at all. A quick look on Flickr shows some of them on the Swansea/Cardiff services in 1970 but none for any services in 1971.

All valid points. I must admit it was more of an assumption on my part. It obviously relates to the toilet as Mk2Z and Mk2A TSOs only have one at the toilet end whereas the FO and FK stock and Mk2B, 2C, 2D and some Mk2E TSOs have one above the toilets at each end. It will be down to the build drawings to hopefully find the answer, or possibly someone who worked regularly on the stock in the late 60s/ early 70s.

For the toilet fittings the larger disc with a pip on top is the water filler cover. These roof fillers are mounted on the centre line and were discontinued part way through the Mk2E build. The small pipe in front of it is a breather pipe.

Strictly speaking: "By comparison with the Mark 2As, the 2Bs were longer than all previous Mark 1 and Mark 2 coaches, being 64ft 0in in length over the headstocks, as compared with the previous standard of 63ft 5in. They were 66ft exactly of the body ends - previously 65ft 4.1/4in. The increased length was primarily to permit the installation of air-conditioning equipment in the roof space above the lavatories." (Ref. Modern Railways October 1969 p.469) From: British Rail Mark 2 Coaches The design that launched InterCity, Michael Harris 1999

Having managed to get myself back on topic here is a quick photo of how the NSE blues compare: At the front is a 1st batch Bachmann Mk2A BFK in their original darker blue. Next is another 1st batch Bachmann Mk2A BFK, this time repainted with Phoenix Paints NSE Light Blue, the window frames have also been repainted. Then there is an Accurascale Mk2B FK followed by a 2nd batch Bachmann Mk2A TSO in their lighter blue. All the lighter blue coaches are very close to being the same shade. The curtains in the First Class coaches are Accurascale ones but as I felt they were too transluscent I have painted them in Humbrol orange on the inside face. They certainly add to the overall look of the coaches.

Looking again at the photo from David Rostance it is dated 28th June 1992 by which time both the Thames & Chiltern and the West of England sets were based at Old Oak Common under sector code NWRX, Network South East - Western Region. So strictly speaking either type of set could have turned up on either service, although Thames was probably officially booked for vacuum braked stock and West Of England for air braked stock. Apologies to Accurascale and everyone else for going off topic.

13563 and 13575 were transferred to Laira, from Bounds Green, in the 4 weeks ending 22 June 1991. There is a photo of 13575 wearing blue and grey in a Waterloo - Exeter rake in the 1992 Platform 5 Combined (and I assume the 1992 Platform 5 Coaching Stock Pocket Book). They were subsequently transferred to Old Oak Common 4 weeks ending 12 October 1991, along with all the remaining Laira based Waterloo - Exeter coaching stock. Eastleigh kept its allocation, of six coach sets, which were meant for the Salisbury services but invariably ended up on some Exeter trains. There is no record in The Railway Observer up to December 1991 of when 13575 became NSE dark blue but looking at the 1992 Platform 5 Combined it is already marked as being in NSE livery (dated January 1992). The earliest photo I can find of 13575 in NSE dark blue is below. The problem being that any photo of a Mk2D FK in blue and grey could be of 13563. Following photo copyright Richard Norris, 23rd March 1992

Further to my previous post I have found the following photo on Flickr, copyright David Rostance The Mk2 coaches certainly look to be painted NSE dark blue but further investigation reveals a Mk1 TSO and a Mk1 BSK. As all the remaining BSKs were vacuum braked, and all the NSE Mk1 TSOs were also vacuum braked, this is obviously a Thames rake being used as a fill in. The Mk2 TSOs being vacuum braked Mk2Z, ex Kings Lynn sets, and the Mk2A FK being one of the many converted to vacuum brakes back in 1976/77. Please see my subsequent reply to @SouthernMafia further down.

As far as I know none of the Waterloo - Exeter pressure vent coaches were ever dark NSE blue. As @brushman47544 has already stated the Kings Lynn sets which were NSE dark blue went to Thames and Chiltern. The only Waterloo - Exeter coach in NSE dark blue was the Mk2D FK.

The EFE ones are a completely different model to the Heljan ones.

47712 was fitted with them in March 1988. See this photo, copyright Brian Daniels:

I've added 20 thou shims to all my Bachmann Mk2 stock. This makes them nearer in height to Bachmann Mk1s and the same roof height as Accurascale Mk2Bs. Bachmann Mk2 stock seems to have deeper roofs than the Accurascale stock so the cantrails don't quite match. I'm happy with the two makes together now anyway.

The Accurascale ones are sprung (which may well be your preference) and pack OP12 which you have shown look to be 1'8.5" in length (as stated for your wagons). For your information, pack OP2 look to be the same diameter head but 2'1/2" in length. I don't know whether these links will work for you: http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/lanarkshiremodelsandsupplieswebsite_159.htm http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/lanarkshiremodelsandsupplieswebsite159001.jpg

And the ongoing joke on Kirkhill is that the new HST maintenance shed is actually for one of these: 🤣🤣🤣

Pete Harvey etches. https://phd-design-etchings.co.uk/products/ols/products/4mm-mobile-depot-inspection-platform I shortened the original to match a photo posted by @Bob Reid of the inside of Inverness carriage shed.

A quick question to @McC , @Accurascale Fran and their research team, plus anyone else who may know. My NSE rake is based on a haulage I had in May 1991 which used a 6 car Eastleigh allocated rake which included a Mk2B FK as well as a Mk2A BFK. From looking at photographs at that time it is very difficult to tell whether the first class coaches kept their curtains after the partial facelift around 1990. It doesn't help that curtains were never fitted by the windows on the corridor side anyway. So, as I am modelling after the facelift, should I add the curtains to my first class coaches on the compartment side or not? Many thanks.

Diagram TT039B states buffer length of 520mm, head diameter of 406mm. That's 1 ft 8.5 in long and 16 in heads. The photos show them to be oleo buffers so in 4mm I would use Lanarkshire Models BP03 (these are not sprung). Even though the diagram image looks nothing like the actual wagon all the build details, registration nos. etc. match up.

So my three NSE Mk2Bs were delivered to my neighbour this morning ready for me to pick up at 3 o'clock. Along with the blue and grey ones I ordered I'd just like to give a huge thank you to Accurasale for making these available and I can barely express how happy I am with all the coaches. Long may this quality of coach continue. BTW any bend on my NSE stock is negligable:

My blue and grey Mk2B stock arrived this morning, right on the time quoted. Absolutely beautiful models, well worth the wait. Just waiting for the NSE ones now but I've not had an email yet for those.

As I have said previously, please don't separate out the air-con batches - it doesn't make financial sense for Accurascale. What we would like now are 2Ds, 2Es and 2Fs. I've also had my email so they should arrive in the next few days when I just happen to be de-rostered. Just as an aside. If anyone does not need the coach destination board holders for their Mk2B stock, I would like 9 additional ones to fit to Mk2A and Mk2E stock. Please message me if you will have some available and I'm sure that we can come to a mutual agreement.