Phil Bullock

Hang on - dont they all have Duff traction motors? :no:

Thanks for pointing out the error in my suggestion chaps - sounds like that exercise may have been part of the Mirlees demise then? Hadnt sussed the larger grills as a Brush 2 variant either - cheers for pointing that out too! Phil

That seems the most logical explanation! There is another picture of it bearing the sticker attending the Aschurch altercation which occured on 8th March 1969 in which D7038 was damaged - also D156 and D1754 involved. See http://www.railwaysa...hchurch1969.pdf - unfortunatelty two fatalities. That was the weekend Abbotswood Junction box closed as the Gloucester MAS scheme was extended northwards. Cheers Phil

Evening folks Was about to make the same points as Titan re mechanically driven auxillaries but as already said no need to repeat. Pennine MC said "I recall reading that EE did actually offer to supply the last batches of 37s at 2000hp but BR declined, probably on the grounds of standardisation" - now if I remember correctly a re-engined Brush Type 2 - D5835 I think - was tested with an uprated engine at both 1600 and 2000 bhp. Not sure what electrical changes had to be made to handle that but presumably it was the test bed for this exercise? And was it therefore the only loco to operate as a Type 2, type 3 and type 4? Kind regards Phil Bullock

Thanks folks - and I guess we should also not forget that the train classes were not a fixed item they did change around this time - and that something in the region of 25% of workings displayed the wrong code. Later pics of this loco operating in the Gloucester area all have her on class 8 workings. Cheers Phil

Cheers Trevor Amazing what we can disprove even at this distance in time. Now we just need to wait for D6320 too ... The Dec 68 sighting is the earliest one yet at 85B - transfer to 82A is listed for 9 week period ending Jan 69 so that fits nicely - would be nice to know when she last worked in the area too. Kind regards Phil

Thanks Geoff that confirms my thoughts - was hoping we might unearth some more specific sightings too! Kind regards Phil Bullock

Hi all Have been having a conversation with Ben Jones of Model Rail re their review of the super model of D6331. That states that the loco was stored at OOC from 1969 and then towed to LA for spares recovery - catching fire en route! From evidence D6331 was most definitely not stored after finishing at Newton Abbot in 1968 - she was working off Gloucester after this as allocated to 82A BTM from Jan 69 and got as far north as Worcester and Bromsgrove in this period. If you do a search for D6331 on flikr you'll find a couple of images and the class 22 page on the miac website also has some gen. I saw her working at Abbotswood on 20.6.70 and she was stored at SPM by July 71 following withdrawal in March 71. Does anyone have any other gen on her movements or workings between these dates please. 1971 was class 22 last knockings - was she actually working for the first 3 months of that year? Heres hoping! Cheers Phil

Thats interesting gen. Assume they found some other footage that was a little 'otter then? Coat on and leaving..... Phil

Hi there For headcodes take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_reporting_number. However the last two digits are route specific identifying trains on a given route. Studying photos 8.50 and 8.51 look pukka for D6331 and D6320 when they operated in the Gloucester area in the late 60's - early 70s which leads me to believe that these were the codes for the local Gloucester trip workings. For other areas suggest you study photos or better still get hold of a working time table for your area - they are a mine of info! Kind regards Phil Bullock

RM web special? Count me in! What would be required? A pre paid order? Credit card at the ready...... Phil

Hi all Hopefully wont be too long - see Just wish we had the same for the class 22! Phil

Hi Nidge afraid not! Must have gone in to the ether will email you to establish link Cheers Phil

Ye ha! So thats D6320 and D6331 for Abbotswood then - the Gloucester twins of the late 60's early 70s. What price Lister name plates for D6320? Has anyone got a picture of that unofficial name please? Phil

And heres D6324 clearly in green http://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffsimages/6205364198/ and on the same day but from the opposite angle http://www.miac.org.uk/stored85a.htm - so thats no blue and no full yellow then! Phil

Cheers Dave Is there now clarity about which locos are coming out in which livery? Many thanks Phil

Interesting discussions chaps! I have two family connections. My eponymous uncle was lost in Stirling W7506 of 218 Squadron in 1942. A 4 year premium Halton Apprentice lost after 8 missions on active service - symptomatic of survival rates at that time. Is an interesting tale - will happily discuss further if there is interest. And my good lady's father was a rear gunner in a Lanc - he did survive to tell the tale, including an encounter with the Wermacht following a bail out over France. They failed to recognise his thick Irish brogue and let the crew continue on their way to make it back home via the Reistance networks. Not to underscore gravity of losses but does sound rather like an early episode of Allo Allo! Phil

Hi again I wonder if there is some confusion here between payload and bomb load. Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Edweirdo/Maximum_reported_B-17_%26_B-24_bomb_loads which suggests that based on USAAF records the heaviest bomb load carried by a B17 was 8000lbs. The balance of the 17,600lbs quoted is I suspect made up of fuel, crew and defensive armament. And to reinforce what another poster has quoted - why risk 9 or 10 men in a B17 to deliver the same payload as two Mosquitos which would only risk 4 men who would probably have a much better chance of a safe return home? Both the RAF and USAAF started from the same starting point - "The bomber will always get through". The RAF thought their power operated turret aircraft at the beginning of the war - the Wellington - would reinforce this but soon learnt painful lessons. Each time a significant development came along - the Stirling and the Lanc - they tried again in daylight but nothing changed despite some heroics by crews incl. Sqd Leader Nettletons in Lancs in 1942 that earned him a VC. The Americans failed to learn from this and assumed that RAF strategies must be wrong - their tight box formations with withering heavy calibre defensive fire must surely suceed! Unfortunately they came up against the Luftwaffe day fighter force at its strongest time and it was not until air superiority - initially local but then more widespread - was achieved that daylight bombing by heavy bombers became a reasonably safe operation. That is not to detract from USAAF operations. The fact that they flew in daylight meant that they often knew exactly what happened to their colleagues who went missing yet still pressed on. For the RAF once night bombing became the norm with aircraft in a loose stream it was fairly rare for another crew to know exactly what happened to colleagues. They might see a big explosion in the night sky but would not know what it was - indeed the RAF propoganda machine had it that the Germans used a "scarecrow" shell to make crews think that an aircraft had just blown up. The truth was - there was no such shell and it was indeed an aircraft. And it was only once air superiority was achieved that the RAF could again comtemplate day time ops with Lancs carrying Tallboys and Grand Slams which were after all precision daylight weapons. So the B17 and the Lanc followed very different paths. Both paid a significant part in the Allied victory. As to the other element of this tread - the night sky - try sewin fishing at night in a remote Welsh valley completely devoid of light pollution on a cloudless night (not usually much good for fishing!) The night sky is very humbling..... Regards Phil

Hmmm! Try putting a 22000lb grand slam in a B17. Function over form ? Phil

Hi Andi Love that curved diamond. Is it scratch built? Should have done that on Abbotswood , would have maintained a smooth transition for all those long 1Co-Co1 bogies! Phil

Dave that is a super photo! Many thanks for publishing Cheers Phil

Hi there Have you tried zoopla ? ..... http://www.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/ May not be on there however if a private sale and not through estate agent Kind regards Phil

Thanks Mark that is very useful gen 6V06 is news to me though - thats the trouble with losing the headcodes off locos! Cheers Phil

Hi folks Why Abbotswood? Heres why.... Favourite photo of all time... 8.12.76 1048, 20228/119. Many thanks to Mike King for copying this superb photo for my use. Was this the last time a Whizzo worked the clay? 1048 Western Lady Abbotswood.zip Phil

I know ... lets have a pilot scheme - hey we could call these the pilot scheme locos ... thats bound to work isnt it? :rolleyes: And surely no-one would go in to production until the original ones were thoroughly proven in service??? Hee hee - just adds to the reality!!! Kind regards Phil Bullock