Richard_A

Thank you. 

Bumping this old thread, I'm building an Ian kirk gwr 10t ventilated can I bought in a job lot, I know some were fitted with vacuum brakes which, makes me wonder if any would be seen in the very late 60's? 

10 hours ago, DCB said:

You are chucking away the best bit.   I put Romford 60:1 gears on one of mine and it completely transforms it.
It will shift 20 heavy metal chassis wagons and yet slip happily at a buffer stop  without overheating the motor.  It is so slow it has to go everywhere flat out and is very irritating when let loose on the mainline as it takes for ever to get anywhere.   Glazing the cab windows hides the ring field.  

I don't have a Hornby dublo one, it is a kitmaster body and a crownline chassis kit. 

14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Motorising and improving the KM/Airfix plastic kit 08 should be possible; the biggest problem is probably the coupling rods, which are quite flimsy in 4mm scale.  HD/Wrenn and Lima beefed them up considerably on their RTR models.  Quite a bit of work, though, you'd have to povide scratch-built brakes and rodding, a floor, and full cab detail.  I suspect that, unless you specifically wanted lower gearing than the Hornby or Bachmann models (which both run very well out of the box and are well detailed and to scale to start with), you would not bother, especially if you were going for a wasp-stripe livery (most of them over most of their lives).  The plastic kit has raised lines to assist with this, but of course those would have to be removed for any 'scale' credibility.

I have a crownline chassis kit for mine so no problem in that respect, I haven't noticed any pain guide lines on the body kit however. 

44 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

Overall dimensions are about right but Hornby lengthened the cab to fit the Ringfield motor in, the engine casing is correspondingly shorter.

That sounds confusing to sort out, I have a couple of kitmaster 08 kits, might stick with them. 

2 minutes ago, 65179 said:

 

Yes, they are torpedo vents. All LMS vans of this style were built with steel solebar 10ft chassis: either Morton brakes with brakes on one side only or the LMS style of fitted underframe with J hanger supported springs and 8 shoe clasp brakes. Some of the unfitted vans were later fitted by BR, and similar vans (with detail differences) were built by BR too.

 

Regards,

Simon

Thank you Simon, 

Best look for a chassis kit then, I assume that the ratio 10' one is correct, but, the differences between wagons leaves me bewildered at times. 

How accurate is the Hornby dublo/wrenn 08 shunter body? 

I have a few crownline chassis kits to build and was thinking about these bodies or kitmaster ones to keep the cost down. 

14 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Tony, let me take you back to your theme a few pages ago of saving wrecked wagons.

 

I was at Shildon show over the weekend operating a 7mm layout.   Having my usual grub through the rummage boxes on trade stands, I was reminded of your present interest in what can be done with cheap or basket case wagons.   Here's one I found:

 

 

Two quid from a box of loose wagons.   Ratio, square and mainly complete (missing buffer and roof vent) and you can never have too many LMS vans.  How could I resist?

 

 

Just out of the paint stripper, no apparent damage and a fairly tidy build under the paint.

 

 

Brass bearings and proper wheels, LMS (Dave Franks) buffers, whitemetal roof vents and the door handles replaced with wire.   Plenty of change from an hour to do this.

 

 

Primed and drying.   I found the wheels fairly cheap at the same show, so the whole lot probably stands me less than twelve quid including the two pounds for the wagon to start with.

Are the vents the torpedo variant? 

Also are these vans a 10' wheelbase? 

The reason for the questions are I have a body of one of these kits but no chassis or roof vents. 

On 08/10/2023 at 17:13, cctransuk said:

 

Depends on the source of the 'public funding'.

 

I spent forty years designing, letting and supervising local government civil engineering contracts. The 'Contingency Sum' item at the end of the priced Bill of Quantities was invariably 10% of the foregoing items - and I had to have a bl**dy good reason at the time of Final Accounts to pay any of it!

 

The problem with central government funded contracts is that they are perceived as a bottomless honeypot. Anything and everything gets charged to them - ultra-swish site accommodation, of the size of small towns; new motorway interchanges to access them; five star hotel accommodation for senior executives on site visits; first class travel; endless consultants' fees - the list goes on, and on, and on ....

 

At one time, there was the man who wanted the hole digging, and the man who dug the hole. Nowadays, there's an army of non-productive bodies dictating when the hole must be dug, how the hole must be dug, where the muck must be placed, how the public should be prevented from falling down the hole, how the man who digs the hole should be provided for when he needs to receive himself ......

 

So - not a big surprise that organising the digging of the hole costs multiples of the cost of actually digging the hole!!

 

CJI.

I can agree with this, I used to work for a company which built modular concrete and steel structures, and on one job in Newcastle there was about 2 assistant managers for every manager/engineer on the site it was ridiculous.

I remember my boss losing his temper with one because he kept sticking his nose into what we were doing but when he was challenged on why he kept trying to change things he couldn't give an answer apart from he'd have to ask the reason why! 

I've been trying to find a picture of a class 37 with a rake of 16 ton wagons filled with scrap from Morriston scrapyard, I'm sure it's in a book I have, can I find it? no chance. 

14 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

I've often thought that the Morriston (LMS) branch would make a nice 'short-line. There were about half a dozen terminals of varying complexity between the bridge under the GWML  and the A48 bridge at Morriston. At the time I worked at BSC Landore in summer 1974, the booklet for 'Conditional Workings' for the Swansea area ran to about 30 pages.

I also have pondered this, as a northerner who has lived in Swansea twice now, the fact that companies from my area had a presence here is remarkable to me, I could model this line and still use my triang blue pullman as they were scrapped in Morriston.

Food for thought I think. 

32 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

They would, alomgside unfitted ones.

Vans: the main traffic for vans was tinplate, normally conveyed in Shoc-vans. This was from the works at Velindre and Trostre to the the docks at Swansea, warehouses around Swansea docks and Metal Box factories nationwide. Mannesman was on the site of BSC Landore, I believe. Not sure when it closed, but can't recollect anything bearing the name by the 1970s . The old names lingered on; old hands would refer to Landore as 'Siemens', despite the plant having been confiscated at the outbreak of WW1 from the German firm that owned it.

Out of interest, what period are you modelling?

Hi Brian, 

I'm mainly interested in the late 60's and early 70's 

What types of industry would make use of vans? 

I've finally decided that the Swansea area is my main interest so before I dispose of kits etc I'd like to make sure I won't need to buy anything I sell. 

I don't think I could build enough mineral wagons ever though. 

Would mannesman tube works near Landore used the railway for transporting products? 

27 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Into the 1970s, there were at least half-a-dozen; by  the ime of the 1980s Miners' Strike, this had come down to one at Swansea Eastern Depot, which fed the sites of some of the others by road. 

The depots I remember from the earlier part of the period included Burry Port, Llanelli, Gorseinon, Felin Fran, Morriston.

Thank you, and these might have used fitted wagons? 

I'll have to look through my books aswell. 

20 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

From personal observation of wagons in the Swansea area (I was brought up a few hundred yards from the Llanelly and Mynydd Mawr, and spent 3 months doing a daily census of wagons at BSC Landore in 1974), I'd say that fitted minerals were confined to house coal flows. Shipping coal, and that for electricity generation, was carried mainly in 21t unfitted minerals, with a leaven of 16 tonners . One oddity I noted was a 16-tonner  with 8-shoe brake gear, but no vacuum cylinder.

Thank you, how many house coal depots were in the Swansea area,? 

Thank you everyone, glad I'm mainly interested in the Swansea area and as far as I can tell most of the wagons are unfitted, but I'm sure I'll be caught out. 

I'm building a rake of these and looking at images of 16t mineral wagons I noticed that a lot do not have axle guard tie bars but some do, is there a reason so have them? 

I was thinking if its to do with automatic brakes, but I've seen some Images where fitted wagons don't appear to have the tie bars. 

I have the three articles on these wagons in modellers backtrack but this doesn't seem to shed light on this either. 

The depot at swansea maliphant sidings has fouling point signs/markers. 

3 hours ago, MJI said:

Kits supplied with wheels

 

This is now starting to annoy me a bit, why?

 

Most wagons I need are 3 hole disc, kits come with 8 spoke.

 

There are only so many Airfix cattle I can build to use them up.

 

Even 12 or 13t opens have got them now.

I might be interested in a few sets of the spoked wheels. 

Can someone shed any light on what size  thread these are please? 

I'm after two but cannot find any for sale so going to see what else I can find. 

On 11/09/2023 at 14:56, Coldgunner said:

Guess who's got COVID after 3 years? That's right, me!

 

 

I've had it aswell for the first time, truly horrible. 

Whilst I don't really care about the latest models because I'm quite happy altering rtr diesels with techniques I read about in the modelling magazines I used to read as a kid and thought I'd like to try that, I have become less cautious about buying kits from either the manufacturer or when I see them because I have missed out. 

I'm talking about the likes of genesis Kits, alexander models and southern pride models, for too long I looked at their wares and thought its a bit expensive I'll wait a bit only to actually miss out. 

1 hour ago, Tony Teague said:

I managed to locate two of what I think were three Warwells which it seems I had built but they were never really finished - no decals, and I had a lot of trouble with the white metal bogies which seemed too wide to fit the axles, so the bogie sides were temporarily squeezed in so as to hold the wheels in place.

 

 

I think I probably put them in the "can't be bothered" pile - so they were put in a drawer and have not emerged since!

 

 

The bodies look a bit wide to me, although they do match the width of the cast resin tanks that are sat on them.

 

 

I also located the Warflat kits which are unmade and sitting in my drawer full of roundtuit kits; I just need to check the era for the originals as I have a feeling these may be too late for my 1938 - 48 layout - in which case I might make them available to @rka for a donation to Tony's CRUK fund:

 

 

I will now look for some research materials and check dates as well as dimensions.

 

Tony

I might take you up on the offer. 

If there are any of the warwell and warflat kits left, could you keep me in mind for them Tony, please? 

5 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I don't know so much. Not all of us are completely wedded to what the RTR boys make. Still dozens of BR Mark One types for example that aren't available RTR and probably never will be.

 

I certainly feel the etches and parts such as the interiors are still viable. Maybe one for someone such as Wizard, Dart Castings or Phoenix to take on?

 

 

Jason

I hope so.