PeterR

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the update, and look forward to the kits when you can.

Yours Peter.

Are the contacts on here any use?

http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/suppliers/47822-StevensonCarriages

Thank You for the thought - that is the address details that I have for him.

Yours Peter.

Hi,

I am trying to contact Stevenson Carriages - maker/seller of LNWR 4mm etched brass kits.

I have a business card from him, but after a couple of attempts to contact him there has been no reply, (over a week or so), and have sent to his BT e-mail address a couple of messages again with no return message to me.

Has any member any details of how to contact Paul Barker please?

Yours Peter Bunce

Hi,

Thank You Ian! That's what I hoped would appear - much obliged

I mentioned that the CR coach showing a gas cylinder; here is a portion of the photo from the CR coach book , the building date is 1881, coach later modified; showing that gas cylinder.

Yours Peter.

Hi Shez,

Re your question re gas tank(s)  - first a copy from your note --

'A copy of the works drawing for one of the coaches clearly shows a gas feeder pipe and regulator. However, no gas tanks are shown under the coach'

G W Sewell in his drawings for the all 3rd 4 wheel, 5 compartment coach shows a single gas tank,  8' 8" long centered about the centre of the coach length, just outside the centre longitudinal centre beams of the coach underframe, and approx 18" diameter, being down the longitudinal line of the coach of the coach (thus between the centre wheels and the end wheels, and centred in that space). Most of the cylinder(s) (would the first class have two cylinders I wonder?) are visible; the upper edge being at the lower edge of the buffer beam.  The Westinghouse brake cylinder could thus be hidden, certainly from one side if there was only on cylinder; I wonder of there was a charging point on both sides?.

There is some confirmation via a photo of a Caledonian Railway coach, (Drummond being a CME of both railways) where the gas cylinder is visible between the centre axle and the end axle, filling virtually all  the space there., and as the tank curvature can be seen (of the tank), to a degree,  confirming my thoughts - the CR didn't show gas cylinders on their (surviving) carriage drawings either.!

Possibly as the lighting installation was by 'Mr Pintsch' and thus I presume the railway did not bother adding the details of the installation.

Yours Peter

I checked the 6 wheel coach drawings and the gas tanks do NOT appear on them. Thus I would expect the sizes to be carried forwards.

Hi Nigel,

You should be using different melting point solder for each operation, that way they can stay on, also have a look at the following topic

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/50557-soldering-for-absolute-beginners/, note the comments re 'hot irons' for 'quick work', I would also add that 'pre tinning' the items could help.

The C&L website mentioned in the above thread can also help.

Also, and just a thought,  make sure that the soldering iron has sufficient wattage to give you the heat to quickly put the heat though your small items to plete before it spreads to the other bits of the underframe

Hope the above will help

Yours Peter

Hi,

Nice work Nigel - the are looking good.

Re Guilplates, the 4mm versions are available from Ian Terrell, and can be seen on his website   Link  http://www.nbr4mm.co.uk/other_suppliers/guilplates.htm

That site also has details to contact Guilplates as well.

You were earlier asking about lining - I think that the colours would be as the Midland Railway - that is straw for third class and possibly gold for First class.

Yours Peter

Hi Nigel,

Alas the NBR did line the coaches, I suspect that even them did not try unlined (except possibly some older stock) vehicles, especially with the competition (the CR) ignoring the colour here is a copy of a West Highland coach on the west of Scotland 0 Gauge layout at Bo'ness (off the Flicker site  link    https://www.flickr.com/photos/bogog/page1/   there are almost 1500 0 gauge photos so far, naturally of all sorts of railways but in O gauge naturally)  named b  'Glenauchter'

Here is another - off the web, of a 6 wheeler, some of the NBR painters in front of it

Finally from the BRM of October 1994, which had a 'Railway Liveries' centrefold on the NBR is a section of a west highland (again) coach; note the lining included the edges of the cantrail ventilator bonnets when fitted. The 6 wheeler has smooth bonnets on the doors.

There is a small set of photos at    http://www.gotopcs.net/461intro.htm  as well with close ups of the letterig & crerst for you./

Yours Peter

Hi Nigel,

First the paint - it was hand mixed, (and thus could be different (there are tales of the LNER apple green - mixed during the day, and another batch mixed during the night, and naturally they were different, due to the difference in the light when mixed. There was no buying pre-mixed paint!) and the topcoat was what was called a 'lake' colour - that is it is in modern (and nearest) terms like ink - that is clear with no opaquers (like Humbrol 20 - which looks to be a solid colour (when mixed) but isn't - you DO need an solid colour undercoat for it.

Thus the final colour relied on its undercoat to give it depth. Finally the coaches were varnished for protection of the paint film. This could be renewed IF the finish allowed it as varnishing was cheaper.

The carriage livery sides maroon, ends, originally maroon, later black, brake ends vermilion. When new the roof was white, there is a photo of Cowlairs station with a coach having a white roof and below the rainstrip on each side painted black. That must have been before trips from Queen Street station up through the tunnel to Cowlairs! . The coach was an early design with a single 'low arc' to the roof.

The above from Sandy Maclean in the NBR Journal.

Maroon (even Humbrol 20) is as above transparent, and the undercoat affects the colour perceived. The NBR used a brownish colour (Brown Oxide, which Scottish railways seemed to prefer to red oxide?), and was said to be slightly different (more dull)to the Midland version.

I have seen NER (also maroon/crimson) coaches painted with a navy blue undercoat which also make a rich colour; I suspect that the 'brown' (undercoat) was towards the dark end of the spectrum (perhaps the fitted stock colour?).  Thus black, medium to dark grey, or dark (chocolate), or red oxide, or a dark russett brown, tending to a warm red undercoat will give some variety. 

Here is a link to a 'transparent brown oxide - look at the top end of the image for what I think the solid version would be like 

http://d4of2brjuv1jo.cloudfront.net/imagefiles/recent/2874.jpg

Finally a light coat of 'muck' will tone it down! Especially if you scratch build a CCT or a horsebox.

Crimson or Maroon basically the same colour, was a long lasting colour thus the use by many railways; the Midland for instance had 17 coats of paint (incl. varnishes) for their carriages! Thought I doubt that you would want that?.

The interior would be dark wood (mahogany(?) for 1st and yellow brown for the lower classes the last being at this link

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/sorting-out-satinwoods/

Yours Peter

Hi Nigel,

Don't forget to give the chassis a bit of weight to keep it in order.

Yours Peter,.

Hi,

These open wagons were more likely to have the round bottomed, parallel sided grease axleboxes I think, the later 'eared' style were oil filled, and when use on new wagons were used for the fitted, or 'higher speed use vehicles.

No connection but 51L?wizard models make them here is a link to them, and also can be seen the casting also have springs.

http://www.wizardmodels.co.uk/images/51lcomp/phtnbrc002.jpg 

As shown on page 5 of this topic where there are a couple of photos.

Yours Peter.

Hi Nigel,

Nice work - the sides look good, and very even - I'm impressed!

A suggestion re the photos - could you support the camera in some way - on a tripod or a solid support (to stop camera shake when the shutter is used) and possibly take your photos outside - weather permitting!

That will give you a shorter shutter opening as there would be more light that way?

Yours Peter.

Apologies  for the lack of progress postings. 

 

I have finished the brass work on both the First and Brake Third, and have started the Third. However, due to work and family issues progress has been very slow. I have also not had time to photograph the work but will do so in the coming weeks.

 

I have also been waiting for the castings to become available from Peter Mullen at 62C Models. If you check out Peters website these are now available. He can supply the gas lamps and door vents and westinghouse pipes. He also has the styrene roofs available for the coaches. Buffer shanks are being cast.

 

Just search 62C Models or use the link on the GOG website.

 

I was hoping to source some castings from ALBA models, but they are temporarily closed for family reasons.

 

Therefore for axle boxes I am getting HR/ LBSCR ones from Laurie Griffen. These are a fairly good match given the Stroudly/Drummond influence on NBR coaches in this period. He can also supply springs. His LNWR door handles are also a fair match. However grab handles in the correct size are proving a problem. Might have to do these from scratch - ideas anyone?

 

Have to go now as facing impending OFSTED inspection this week.  Last one - voluntary redundancy beckons at the end of this final term. 

Hi Shez,

Hope your last OFSTED inpection went well!

Back to railway matters now, I think that the only way to source 7mm carriage (or commode) handles if going to be a lost wax caster; after a master is made, the handle itself has a couple of 'quarter circle' ends backwards from the vertical part, the ends of these 'quarter circles' having the fixing where it is fixed to the coach/fish van etc.  - a good photo there is a 6 wheel all 3rd coach on the web that can be enlarged quite well theat shows the vertical portion seems to be round, with 'flats' top and bottom and a single fixing screw top & bottom.

I am sure you know the photo, but here is a link

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NBR_3rd_Class_Carriage.jpg

For 4mm scale when Ian can source his white metal parts is easier as wire flattened in the centre portion may suffice, but then the top and bottom will need two (or three) bends in them, a bit more than the Billl Bedford gadget will do - perhaps a piece of plasticard and 'annealed' wire will help there.

Peter Tatlow's LNER Wagon (Vol2) book on P 58 has a photo of the 6 wheel Fish Vans that shows the hable quite clearly, it MAY be simplified for NPCS stock, the sketch has been done from this.a 

Here is a very rough sketch of the commode handle

Yours Peter.

Thank you Markus - book now ordered.

Peter

Hi,

Which book (of the two he has written) by Ian Futers covers 'Arrochar & Tarbert' station please?

Yours Peter

Hi,

White is a terrible colour as there are no inks for normal printers, thus it has to be produced by a white wagon. The only printers I know that will produce white are wax based and are ALPS printers - BUT they have now ceased production!

'Robbies' transfers (no connection) are made to go onto a white background so are a rectangle with the wagon colour(s), printed onto transfer film on arrival they look like the white lettering is there - that is the background paper - then, when applied and dry,  as you will have guessed, need to have the edges tinted to match.

Even with an Alps the white or its somewhat transparent cousins yellow and red (to enhance those the printed does a double run with white as an underprint layer for the lettering).

Yours Peter

Now that Oxford Rail are producing some cupboard door wagons it would be great if A Large Retailer was to commission some traders wagons in limited edition runs.  Can we have Salmon and Young from Greenock? 

 

 

another large retailer?   What about Harburn Hobbies - I have sent the suggestion to them - to contact Oxford and I have no connection with either - its so 'unusual' for a retailer to pick a 'Scottish Railway' for moulded plastic and all the expense of the moulds etc that any further use would, I think, be welcome.

 

Hattons have them to 'pre order' at £9.50 = post.

 

 

They have the NB version and Wilsons, and Taylors of Dundee shown - 

 

Yours Peter

Hi,

Lightmoor Press and the Caledonian Railway Association have just published their new book on Coaches, covering from the very early vehicles through to the grouping, including to Pullman cars.

It is quite a volume having some 360 pages and is 11" deep and 9" wide, and almost 1" thick and its cost is £30.00.

It was released at Warley, and mine came via Geoff Gamble books.

I have no connection with any of the above, other than a satisfied customer, and in my opinion the book is superb; it will help for some of the vehicles, especially the saloons, but some other coaches are also included,

if you have a copy of the HMRS West Coast Joint stock book for some further information on the seconded vehicles from them to the Caledonian Railway.

Some of the 'cascaded coaches are available as 4mm scale kits via London Road Models.

Yours Peter

Another light Railway that was authorised, but was never built was the Loch Fyne Light Railway.

This is mentioned, with a rough plan of the intended route  in the book 'The New Railway, by John McGregor.

Senically it would have been superb, but I can well understand why it was never built!

Hi Shez

adding photos

Don't use the quick reply - goto the box on the right hand side reply with attachments; the add the photos, via 'attach files' on the lower edge on the text box on the right

and then move it with the cursor to the required location for the photo -  as above - that is a couple of crates with the right hand one supposedly containing an (early) aeroplane, on scratch built NBR wagons.

That sequence can be dome a number of times

Yours Peter.

Hi,

Can I ask please that you really need on the etch a couple of outside W Irons - the NBT were virtually unique in having them on the centre axles of both coaches and the Fish/fruit vans and theay are very rare; thus the suggestion that they should be there - one pair per coach being needed.

Yours Peter.

My uncle who was loading and unloading in the '60's told me a couple of days ago that the goods shed wasn't in use towards the end of freight on the line, and that all the agricultural produce was loaded either lineside or on the ramp beside the Boston platform. As a result, it seems that almost nobody knows what the loading side of the goods shed looks like. As this will be away from the viewing side I'm going to leave it until I can find out a bit more about it.

 

In the meantime I've been on Ebay again and bought this LNER shipment label that was used in the yard into BR times. Unfortunately I don't know whether the label was put on the side of the waggon or the produce itself. The potatoes to be loaded in Wainfleet were destined for Somerstown near King's Cross.

 

potato-label.JPG

Hi,

That looks like the label that went into the 'label clip' on the solebar of the wagon, not certain if they were used on both sides of the wagon; I can make out a case for one or two of them!

They were filled in with the details when being loaded, and before the wagon left; interesting that it went to Somerstown (could be two words later) as that is not very far from Kings Cross goods yards.

All wagons/vans etc had their own label with the details of contents and destination.

Somerstown was the Midland Railway goods yard by the side of St Pancras station, now the British Library is there.

Yours Peter.

Hi

The HMRS sell some transfers at 1.3mm deep both plain or black shaded, they are down the bottom of their list at -   http://www.hmrs.org.uk/transfers/list.php

Yours Peter.

Additional to my last post  -  

I was in the shop called 'The Works' ( link  http://www.theworks.co.uk/p/paint-brushes/nylon-detail-brush---pack-of-4/5052089006096)and found some 'Nylon detail brushed at £2.00 for 4 - the finest (10/0) is very good for picking up the nuts for the outside of of the wagons.

Here is a quick photo of the rear of the pack, with the 10/1 brush on the left of the pack, at the back is a NBR 4 plank wagon with a centre drop door. 

I have been using 'Limonene, which has a slower rate of drying than Mek, or the Humbrol 'thin' cement, you have to be careful when handling the model (till it dries) and the 10/0 is very good with it. It also as a nice smell!   It can be bought on the web, in 250Ml bottles. 

The drawing for the NBR wagon is in the book 'LNER Wagons Vol3', by Peter Tatlow - Vol 3 covers the NBR & the GNSR - not all the wagon diagrams, but a good selection, The book has 185 pages and a good number of drawings.

Finally the (ancient) trays that I use for cutting the strips into squares have a modern version, which are available from Boots and called 'Cleaning Wipes' with 30 in a packet - the top flap entrance to the pack is the part wanted;the tray is 2.25" x 1.5" roughly in size and will do for the cutting of the tiny squares.

Yours Peter.

Hi,

I can lay down the nuts (the nuts were outward as then loose/missing ones could be seen and theinside of then wagon was almost smooth) on the corner pieces, made from a sliver of .010 cut to a square (10 or so at a time) and lifted on the end of a fine brush, after depositing a tiny amount of glue in the intended location (that will grab the tiny square off the brush), which should have sufficient liquid glue left (Humbrol/Limolene/or Mek Pak.

They can be 'teased' a small distance with the point of a scalpel if required.

Using the above glues are easier than super glue I find and have  less smell, super glue being very strong.

an NBR fixed side open with added nuts - also note the side knees on the inside which has the assorted strapping fitted as well.

Here are the nuts before fitting - they are the tiny black dots. The brush I use is a worn one but still with straight hairs, and having been dipped in the liquid glue, gently picks them up. The two curved black item are the strip from which they are cut.

A final one - a NBR van with the first layer of paint, with a full complement of tiny black .010 plasticard squares, they are cut off a piece 1" wide, and when cut off with a scalpel the strip should curve slightly. Straighten it out and cut the strip into squares - only 10 - 15 at a time, with a curved blade scalpel - using that instead of  straight blade ensures that less pressure can be used (try to push and slide the knife blade) and they stay put instead of disappearing en route to the floor!

They are cut on a small polythene tray which is ancient! It came from some baby soft  wipes ( the top of which is a solid soft plastic - mine came from Asda but all supermarkets should have them) when my children were young: they are now 40 or so, unfortunately one (my son) has just died from pancreatic cancer alas; that is going to take some time to get over. 

Yours Peter.