jukebox

Bonus points to that man! Yes, if you study the pair of photos you'll see the hastily removed ladder, too! I'd just lobbed another couple of boxes of cra.. detritus up there for storage, and so shifted the ladder to get the "in progress" photos. One or two more boxes, and then the manhole hatch (also pictured, leaning up against the wall) gets dropped back in and we can forget about what's up there for another 2-3 years. Spent a few hours today with my offsider, screwing and glueing L-girders... till I ran out of glue. Along with a box of 500 wood screws, I bought a single cartidge of Sikaflex, without thinking about how far it would go. About 19 linear metres, and four construction splices, apparently. 17 metres still remaining, so will nip down tomorrow and grab another two tubes, just in case. Was a shame we had to stop, as I had gotten my trades assistant into a helpful rythym, lining up and squaring glued timber as I nipped the screws in to tighen it all up. He'd just gotten the hang of it, when the glue cartridge ran dry and we had to call it a day. Quote of the afternoon: Master 10: "Dad, what would you do if I wasn't here to help you?" Me: "Grab some g-clamps out of the shed - it would take me longer, but I'd get there" Master 10: "Geez, I didn't know I could be replaced that easily..." Surprisingly, given his old man has had trains in some form around him all his short life, neither he nor his elder brother have taken any great interest in what is planned for the room upstairs. Maybe when there's some track down and things start moving, I might get a reaction. But for now, there's no pressing need to go out and buy a second controller for Stockrington. Maybe The Bug skips a generation...

Peco Code 100? Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh! You really shouldn't put photos with that up on this thread without an OH&S warning... I thought you'd ditched the finescale, Jeff, so you could run some HD locos and stock. Some very nice work there; have you thought about what you will make the curved backscene out of, to disguise the room corner behind the viaduct? I know, I know, "Rome. A day, And all that..." But you know that the trick with this layout building caper is that sometimes you need to think twenty-seven steps ahead, so that you don't paint yourself into a corner. Or in your case, so you do! Regards Scott

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. With Stockrington, it's more of a "need" than a "want" - I planned to use Kestrel, DP1, Lion et al as they are heavy six axle drive D/E's that will haul up from the storage with no arguements. But yes, there's no reason the train loco could not take the stock off scene. The advantage to that is that the entrance to the MPD is then off the route as the loco come slight engine back up "on scene", so getting back to the MPD is a cinch. We shall see how it pans out. *** This week I laid out the benchwork timber; I had all but 6.6m of the vertical members (90mmx25mm) for the L-girders in the salvaged material; so it was off to the hardware warehouse for 8m of 120mmx35mm*, 40m of 70mmx22mm (for the girder tops) and 20m of 75mmx35mm (for the legs). The good thing was, with a detailed plan in front of me, I was able to generate a cutting list so I knew exactly how much to buy to minimise the waste, and with my trusty 11 year-old side kick loading the cutting bench in a sunny backyard, while I manned the circular saw and tape measure, we had that +70m of timber cut to size in about two hours, and only a handfull of ~100mm offcuts that were waste. It was left to me to haul it up the stairs into the railway room, which now is looking a touch crowded: Before Christmas, I'd neatly stacked all the timber on one side and the track material on the other, however I realised this week that I needed everything in the middle so I could build the benchwork around the walls... cue a reshuffle! The trick from here is to now measure and mark the salvaged timber to the right size and start making L-girders. No curtains yet - and we'll lose a day because of the long weekend here - but I've been told I have to take one more week's enforced annual leave, so will get a few unplanned days to get on with the build at the end of this week before I start back at work. I can't build the benchwork in front of the windows till those curtain go in, but I can get a move with on the other three sides. *Whilst most of the salvaged material is 90mmx25mm, I had enough larger material for one side of the long wall; as this is the main double decked area, and the longest section, it made sense to spend a few dollars extra and build this out of slightly heavier timber.

Now imagine the extra input if you'd started this in the "Layout topics" area! (I noticed awhile back that you're in Special Interests - S&C... I did wonder how many RMWebbers have missed K/L as it doesn't appear as a layout. Mind you, the reality is that as far as layout advice, you've got plenty of great input anyway... and once the track is down, it's the S&C flavour - and knowledge - you'll want to capture) Coming along very nicely, it is, too. Scott

Perhaps a couple of small becks that join into a larger stream, rather than one single large flow, Jeff?

More planning to help me move forward; Firstly, the L girders. Turns out there's 40 linear metres of L-girder, or 80m of timber needed - not counting legs. By my reckoning, I've about 1/2 of that in salvaged timber from my builder. Some is way bigger than I need, but that won't matter - especially along the window wall, where the girders are 6600mm long (there's 33% of the timber right there). SCARM came in handy again; I was able to delete all the spurious information and trackwork, and come up with what I call Stage 1: This is what I will be concentrating on building first. It is the storage tracks, the ramps up and down to them, and the track along the short walls that connects the ramps. It gets interesting, as this includes a section of mainline, the turnout that the coal stage comes off, the lead to the MPD, and also a double slip. There's 14 turnouts and the double slip to wire up and motorise (T1-T14, DS1). The elevations of the L Girders are for my benefit, but you can see (shown in orange) where the corners have been dropped to clear the tracks that are winding up and down in those areas. And in 3D: The plan is to build the framework, and get the storage yard laid, as a circuit, and then electrify it. There's a few drivers behind this: 1/. it gets me to gradient testing stage as early as possible 2/. it gives me a loop to run trains around - a sense of progress 3/. the stoarge yards will be a DCC sub-district on their own anyway, so it makes sense to complete it, 4/. there's a good combination of turnouts to cut my teeth wiring up and fitting cobalts to, so I can get practice with those before I tackle the ones in the scenic area and 5/. there is a opening across the door for me to experiment with soloutions for the hinged span in that area (as I will need two more by the time I am down). In short, building this part of the layout gives me a real taster for the challenges that lie ahead, without too much repetition or sheer volume of problems! So with the turnout bill of quantities now at hand, I was able to make a start preparing turnouts. With the Peco curved turnouts, this involved nipping out the jumpers, and removing the centering mechanisms. The aftermath of this was this pile: It's been a little too hot here to comtemplate soldering, but when I get a cool evening, I will also solder droppers and jumpers to all the turnouts, so they are ready to install. Tommorrow I plan to set to laying out the timber I do have, to see what I need to go out and buy. Looks like I may be headed back to work next week, so I'm keen to make the most of these last few days.

And on the station front, we now have Rev A: By adding a central bi-directional holding line, the operations would be as follows: *ECS Down trains: Inbound from H, cross to holding track. Train loco is positioned at Loco Hold (Down), waiting. Pilot loco crosses to Up lines at B and then reverses direction to return to MPD (or possibly pilot hol point near label "E"?) *ECS Up trains. Inbound from H, cross tol holding track. Train loco is at Loco Hold (Up) waiting. Pilot moves off via C to MPD/Carriage sidings (or holds till ECS had departed and moves off via E). Up loco backs onto train and moves off via E. Coming "off stage", the process is reversed: *Down trains pull into central track. Train loco moves to B and then MPD via Up tracks. Pilot, waiting at LH/D, attaches and hauls stock down to sidings via C. *Up trains pull into central track, Train loco detaches and moves off via Up Slow to MPD. Pilot, holding at LH/D reverses, attaches, and then moves forward, taking the stock to sidings via C. Advantages: the trains would always uncouple in the same locations - just inside of the LH/D and LH/U. This would make locating Kadee uncoupling magents a lot simpler - and as there would be no uncoupling on the running lines, more prototypical. Limitations: This plan may work better with slips rather than diamonds on the U/D fast tracks - and this would improve flexibility of movements. As I have drawn it, trains cannot come off to store from Up Slow or Down Fast Perhaps a more symmetrical arrangement would work better? In this one, trains coming off stage always are coming from the Slow lines - seems to make sense; Up train locos that detached and held at LH/U would then run back through the station light engine to the Up Slow at A, before moving off to the MPD. S.

Hi Gilbert! Yes, I admit I have been putting off this weekend's work for a little while, as it needed a good dose of concentration and some careful thinking exactly what point to start from. Another complication is that my "zero" datum is not mandatory, so I really needed to think about how high the backscene will come up covering the windows - it's a little daunting having to bring those considerations into play on Day 1, but I guess that's better than building for three months only to discover I obliterated 90% of the daylight available... I've said before I would love to have the patience to learn Templot - esp. Martin's latest wheeze, where a straight plan can be massaged into a curve - but SCARM is giving me enough information to keep ploughing on. If it ain broke etc.etc... Regards Scott

Meanwhile, back on the computer, SCARM has come in handy this afternoon.... How do you physically start a project of this size? Good question! I knew that I wanted to use L-Girder construction for Stockrington. It's not something that you see used a lot in the UK, mainly as it is suited to larger, and more scenically oriented layouts (so is featured a lot in US basement layouts...). If you aren't familiar with it, it was developed by a gent named Linn Westcott, and is essentially a framework of inverted "L" shaped beams, that support cross members which in turn have risers off the that the trackbed sits on. It gives an open frame construction, and makes a lot of sense if you are portraying something other than fenlands, or wish to run trains on mutilple levels. You can read a bit more about it here (this link is probably the best one, shy of reading Linn's "How To Build Model Railroad Benchwork"...), and here, and here. So the starting point for me, is a series of L-girders that are built approx 50mm below lowest track level for a given section (to allow for loadbed, and risers). So I set out some beams using the rectangle polygon tool in SCARM, and was able to rotate the view and zoom in and out, to see if these clashed with any or the proposed levels. It's hard to demonstrate with still images, but I did find a few areas - mainly in corners - where I could not continue the girders, so cut these short and replaced them with lighter ones in the CAD so I'd know I needed to allow for them. This is the overall room view - I kept the windows in place so I could see where they sat relative to the trackwork. SCARM shows risers coming own from the trackbed - which does overly complicate the view. There's no way to disable these. I'm afraid... Looking at the far corner of the room in the view above, from directly above - almost a plan view - the L girders are in brown. You can see the short pieces in orange that need to be installed lower, as they clash with the storage yard track. This is a tilted view of the above section, that sort of shows why the step down needed... In this case, I will install them attached to the L-girders for the long wall (that runs away from the camera position) for strength. Using the 2D output from SCARM, I can measure how many linear metres of L-girder I need to fabricate, and how long each section needs to be to fit the plan. The civil engineer in me likes to see these things In The Flesh to really absorb the relationships, but I do admit that I'm rather chuffed at being able to "fly" in and out and around the tracks to check for clashes before I cut my first piece of timber. I'm off to tote up a bill of quantities!* Cheers Scott *(that's a white lie: It's a sunny 30C outside and school holidays: I've promised to nip down to the beach with the kids, who are on school holidays and killing each other... the timber calcs can wait till after sunset!)

Well, it's Saturday Night here in Perth, and I'm pleased to report that with the welcome assistance of FIL, we have completed the "attic conversion" and made suitable floor space to store all the detritus that needed to be stored, and Mrs Jukebox and I had a very ruthless appraisal of crap that we have had boxed in the roof since our honeymoon 15 1/2 years ago, and thrown about half of it out! The blind lady came and went, and we now await a quote to get those soft furnishing, but in the meantime, I've been move more railway material into my room. And doing some thinking. I have concluded I over complicated the diagram of Stockrington Station, and left out other important information, so let's try one more time. You can ignore all the flyover and access to the MPD etc - because the track plan outside the station is relatively fixed. What I really have is this: Isn't that easier to manipulate? I had to go back to "how do I plan to operate the railway" and I realised that no matter how you carve the pie up, the following "rules" apply: I can only bring empty trains in on the Down Slow line. When I am taking them off scene, they depart from the Down Fast line (technically, the could go via the Up Fast, too, but I do not want to have to manage uncoupling locos at both ends of the stoarge sidings, so exclusively Down Fast it is). Locos coming from the MPD arrive on the Down Slow, and going back to the MPD leave on the Up Slow. Locos that bring trains into the station from the Carriage Sidings generally would be replaced with a fresh loco. Train locos generally would not take their own trains back to the Carriage Sidings - one of the locally stabled locos would do this. I can see with the plan as it stands, that points #1 and #2 create the biggest headaches trying to echo prototypical operation: How to get a terminating Up train across to the down lines... On a seperate topic, if it is any help, I could fit a small (Kings Cross "bottom shed"-esque) 3 track loco stabling point at any one of the four corners of this plan with little trouble - it would make sense operationally, as I could use this as a Diesel stabling point for the 1st Gen diesels I plan to use to haul trains up and down from the Carriage Stabling yard... With regards modelling actual NE prototypes, whilst I agree that looking to the real thing for ideas is sound, I'm fairly firm in my resolve to imagineer Stockrington as a fictional locale, if only to avoid the pitfalls of feeling I have to replicate a location I have no ready access to. Doing that will give me permission to need to change locomotives, or move stock on and off scene, and hopefully increase the "play value" when the urge grabs me! So... has that made things clearer, or did I just muddy the water a whole lot more??? Cheers Scott

Jeff - what tool were you using to do that (it just sounds like a long time to strip ~30 segments)? I've bought myself one of these and can thoroughly recommend it - not only does it strip wire mid-length, but will do the ends too. Mind you, I've always found wire stripping the most vexxing of tasks - having tried both side cutters, and those tools with coloured dots indicating the holes to use to pull the insulation off, and never been able to get a consistent result one day to the next with either, the double action on those jaw-type tools is a godsend to me. Depending on how much more you need to do, it may be worth investing in one.... Regards Scott

Three tracks at a through station? Seems to be a popular discussion point right now! Some interesting thoughts and observations on that thread, if I dont say so myself.... S

Good morning/evening everyone - thanks for the responses, which I need to digest and look at how they relate to the track plan (I'm taking a quick break from fitting lining to the attic with my F-I-L... starting to sound a bit like Jeff and his sessions in The Bunker at K/L!) I had deliberately avoided adding an actual plan view of that end of the layout, as 1/. I thought it would complicate an already less-than-simple problem to solve, but I can see from the comments that this may help, rather than hinder, and 2/. it has never been fleshed out beyond knowing how I wanted to "knit" the seperate lines coming in from the right hand side, using a flyover arrangment. Anyway, here 'tis: You may want to click on that image to open it up larger. It also includes the third loop of track, that is not shown on the schematic, as it plays no part in Stockrington Station equation. The room width here is 4000mm, and as you can see, there would be room for a fast-to-slow crossover on the left hand side of the plan, on the approach to the station, so that is a possibility, and there certainly is room for stabling tracks to hold locos off the main lines... Hope this helps the visualisation! Cheers, Scott

Well, with the very useful iterative work out Northmoor MPD trackplan got here, let's try the same process with Stockrington Station - an area of the trackplan I have not fleshed out in any firm detail at all. So, the parameters are a four track mainline, paired NE style DS-DF-UF-US. To my mind, there is not a mandatory need for the Fast Tracks to serve a platform - the way the trackplan works, in fact, it makes more sense if the fast tracks represent through trains. Because of how the layout is set up, I see a need to either change or remove locomotives at Stockrington - but am not sure what trackwork work typically be found at a medium sized station to accomplish this. I have two schematics as a starting point: This is the simpler of the two, where I assume a the loco from a train on the down (Blue) line crosses onto the fast track using B, then across to the up line using A, then is able to run back to the MPD. The fresh loco, that has been held at a stabling point off the up track, backs down and draws away. In the up direction, the replacement loco is waiting on the track beyond the station, and the loco coming off uses C to cross to the up fast then off to the MPD. While this version has more track, I assume it may be a bit more prototypical, with the run around tracks within the station used to stable and shuffle incoming and outgoing locomotives - also possiblly add portions to trains? I have shown an island platform in the middle here - I assume that if I add the run around tracks, then having four platform faces makes more sense. I have not made any allowance for terminating suburban workings, but as there is plenty of baseboard width here, it certainly is a possibility - perhaps a bay platform at the left hand end of the station? Do not be too concerned about the upper road leading down to the carriage sidings - I have just shown it to indicate the storage yard is directional, in that ECS workings to off-scene can go down in either direction, but bringing new trains up on-scene can only be via the green line in the lower right corner, as that blue line down to the sidings is around 1:30 to get down below scenic level as quickly as possible. The schematic looks crowded, but actually represents about 7m of track - so there is room to move, although the location of the flyover and MPD entrance are fixed because of room constraints (the doorway into the room falls to the immediate right of D, for instance). I'd welcome a robust discussion on all this - budding track planners please feel free to wade right in! Cheers Scott

Happy New Year to one and all! I am now safely back home, defrosting in 28C heat (it's 8:15pm here), down from a high of 35C today. Makes a rather big change from my Christmas Morning: We were tucked away for White Christmas/Younger Son's Birthday/New Year's Eve in Lapland, and everyone had the time of their lives. Room for one more self indulgent snow photo? Why, not - it's a novelty to me: As you can see, all those lessons about stranger danger to my 6 year-old daughter have apparently been wasted. Dress up in a red suit and fur mitts, and she's yours! And so to 2013. I did not do a lot of buying for Stockrington over the holidays: I grabbed some Tamiya weathering powder compacts that I saw for a good price in Hong Kong, ditto some supplies of plastic sheet for scratch building (though seeing the volumes Ron (Heggs) goes through, I have no doubt this will just be the start, and when I get going I will be able to better project the industrial sized numbers I shall really need). I also stocked up on wire there: 100m of thick speaker cable to use as a 9V DC bus wire, plus AWG18 and 22 spools for 9V DC distribution. We seem to pay a fortune here in Oz for cable compared to the UK, when I look at your RS Components website, so it was worth lugging it back in the baggage. Thanks very much for the shed photo: there are a couple of views from this angle around (though not many), but none from the sides or rear - but yes, building this very NER structure is on my list of cameos to attack. It was a key reason I wanted to maintain 8 roads in the MPD. Silverlink has a similar building central to his Haymarket Cross depot here, too. As for the A8's, I'm a bit put off by the cylinder-bogie relationship and how it would limit the travel on curves, so I've actually acquired 3 Craftsman Models A5 kits, and will batch-build these as a starting point. Hopefully ArthurK's (Northeastern Kits) A6 will be a few more months away from release, so I can save up for three of them! I have the Orange Volume (NE Region) of BR Steam MPD's and this has the allocations for Stockton, Haverton Hill and the others - as well as some small photos that are useful. I still have a little room prep to go - we have someone quoting on curtains for all the upstairs rooms, and the father in law and I need to build a storage floor in the rafters of the new roof, to replace the area we lost in the old downstairs roof. That will let me shift all the boxes out of my shed and under the roof, and give be some working space. At that point, I will be free to start on benchwork. But before then, I'll repost the station area details, as I'd like to have a group discussion on what I might need in the way of trackwork there, if I am to represent a locale where engines were attached and removed... I shall try to get something posted by the middle of this week for consideration. Cheers Scott

That is a brilliant photo Jeff! It makes very clear a point Richard Johnson discussed with me before Xmas - that the vegetation circa 1930-50 is very different to what we see in 2013. I'd never imagined that vista of Blea Moor without the pine forest above the portal - it's how I've always seen it. But there it is in black and white: sparse, and treeless. Also note the FB rail.... Do you have any date for that image? Plenty of food for though there, I'd say! Scott

Shall we be calling it a Fell, rather than a Hill...? It's just that I think Hill doesn't have a very Yorkshire ring to it..... Scott

Hi Jeff; Yes, 5pm here now - we came back to the hotel to recharge and are about to go for the second sortee of the day... the medicine is kicking in, so feeling improved, thankfully. I've been reading about using neo magnets in track as permanent uncouplers, but am not convinced the pfaffing is worth the cost saving of buying the Kadee product. I spent $50HKD on 10+20 of them today, and will find out with first hand experience. Met Santa himself in Lapland on the 25th! Got my own Christmas present on the 29th when I saw my first aurora. No CME's at the time, so it was not a particularly moving experience - but I'm glad I came away from travelling so far able to say "yes, I've seen one": (I've not got Photoshop on my Netbook I travel with, so can't photoshop this to make it a bit better!) Regards Scott

Still in transit Jeff - in Hong Kong till the end of the week, then home (finally!). Its only in the mid-to-high teens here, so I'm still not defrosted, yet. Nursing a shocking flu I picked up on the plane here - really put a dampener on this leg. I did manage to get out today and grab some cables for my DC accessory circuit, some Tamiya weather powder compacts, and some neo-magnets to play around with uncoupling Kadees, so it wasn't all shoes and kids clothes, thankfully... Back into it toward the end of the month, I hope. Regards Scott

It all looks rather nude without any trains on it, Jeff... Like most nudes, quite something to look at, but perhaps even more so with just a hint of modesty by covering a little up for us to use our imagination? Scott

Don't discard them so quickly, Gilbert. I have found many seated passengers need to undergo full amputations from the waist down... in which case, you can throw away the lower torso, and keep the upper body. The trick is to use them in the seats next to windows, where the viewing angle hides the surgery. Regards Scott

Happy New Year, Gilbert! I'm still not at home yet - in transit in Hong Kong, which is a lot warmer than Lapland! - so have only just seen this post. Glad the lads all arrived safely before the end of the year, and that you approve. Thanks for all the great inspiration in 2012 - looking forward to seeing your work develop in 2013. Kind regards Scott

No beach for me, Iain - this is the view out my door on Christmas Day: -25C, in Finnish Lapland! Burning up some hoarded frequent flyer miles - well timed too: it was 40C back home on Christmas Day. I'm not sure you can use too much flux - I've never been able to! I like the way flux really makes a small amount of solder flow. It is a practice thing, and if you can get away with working from behind and it looking neat, then you're well on your way. It's our last day in the snow today; an afternoon flight to Hong Kong tomorrow and a week there to defrost, then I'm back home to start serious layout work I hope. Happy New Year! Scott

Iain, I'm sure you've heard it before, but I can vouch for the phrase "flux is your friend" when it comes to soldering. I found getting the right solder-flux combination a revelation - it literally improved my ability to solder overnight. I like the look of those tank panels! Keep up the progress reports. Merry Christmas Scott

So the lack of updates in recent days can now be better explained. I'm rather a long way from home, enjoying the novelty of a white Christmas (eve)in a log cabin: So to all of you following Stockrington, and to those who come and visit occasionally, I wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas, and look forward to sharing my build adventure with you in 2013. Seasons Greetings! Scott