wagonbasher

On 16/10/2023 at 14:02, rogerfarnworth said:

A Rail Strategy for Greater Manchester (1983). …

 

Reading the ‘Modern Tramway’ Journal of May 1983 in Autumn 2023, took me back to the time when I was working for Greater Manchester Council. The County Engineer was A.E. Naylor. I was working in the Engineer’s office in County Hall.

The ‘Modern Tramway’ carried an article by W.J. Wyse about the then recently released rail strategy for the conurbation.

 

http://rogerfarnworth.com/2023/10/10/a-rail-strategy-for-greater-manchester-1983/

Reading May 1983 edition in the Autumn of 2023 is one serious back log of reading …………

Andy

7 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

But is the downsized show helping to inspire fellow modellers and create interest in others? Possibly it is in which case that's fine.  

The problem I was referring to in that post wasn't that clubs need exhibitions to survive, they shouldn't, but rather that they may think they do and seeing their annual exhibition primarily as a fund raiser was getting in the way of what I think should be its primary function, which is to share the hobby with others both existing and potential (that includes the general public!)  It's not really an either/or but more a matter of emphasis.  

I agree with others that the hobby is probably healthier now than it's been for quite some time but the emphasis may be changing- as it often does. Modelmaking has after all been a human fascination forever and railways do hold their own fascination. 

 

As a side note: I was always a bit doubtful about the sign at one exhibition which had two halls with the words "More Trains" . Not "More layouts" so giving the impression that the interest in an exhibtion is just seeing trains running (so trains must always be running) and not appreciating the art and craft of creating a layout.  

It is possible that the smaller shows do more to inspire existing and new modellers.  Small shows may not have the giant layouts with long trains and maybe that inspires some however you do get a more relaxed event where the visitor can interact with the layout operators, traders and demonstrators.  Without 3 deep crowds you can see better, feel more comfortable standing and watching and operators feel more able to discuss the models, why and how they did what they did.  
 

I suppose inspiration is a personal thing that comes in many forms.

Andy
 

I hint that 

If you have not been involved with the management of a model railway show you can’t imagine how much responsibility is resting on a relatively small number of Shoulders.  The club members turn out, hump barriers, make tea and coffee, direct folk, take money, run cables etc working hard for one extended weekend.  The management / management team live and breathe that show all year, the bigger the show the more demanding.  With hall hire, hotel costs, advertising, van and fuel expenses an out right failure can bust a club with expenses potentially running into 10s of thousands of pounds..  Will it fit, will they come, will they spend enough with the traders. 

often the biggest shows really on a very small number of individuals. Hero’s.  
 

I know because I did my share, I didn’t stop because I wasn’t bothered.

Andy
 

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

 

Oh dear I've become far too interested in this topic however,

 

Point 1 - Agree

 

Point 2 - Disagree.

 

In the early eighties I bought the cheapest version of  Hornby's Smokey Joe for around nine quid. Here the 1980 catalogue price is given as £8.95 for the slightly more deluxe Caledonian version. Taking a look at how much that model now costs at Rails of Sheffield with a 10% discount £44.54, more than four times the price. 

 

Also the problem with looking at wages rises in isolation doesn't give the whole picture. Housing costs have shot up leaving less disposable income. An example, my first house a two up two down terrace in York, bought in 1985 for £13,000 last sold in 2017 for £177,500 according to Zoopla. So just comparing wage rises to price rises of model railway items gives a false view of affordability.

Caledonian smokey joe on eBay, buy it now.   £11.20 boxed.   
 

Andy

12 minutes ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

I find a couple of things especially grating among the general doom and gloom: 

1. The contrast between the affection for Hattons and Warley now they're gone and the almost universal negativity about Hornby's 2024 OO launch. I for one will miss Hornby if they go bust and there's virtually nothing entry level in OO and no train sets. 

2. The suggestion that "younger modellers are priced out of the hobby/there's nothing entry level any more". Often made by super detail modellers who haven't bought anything entry level for decades and haven't studied the Railroad or train set range lately.

Once you adjust for inflation Hornby's prices are pretty flat at the entry level, while median household earnings have doubled since 1980 in real terms, meaning that the hobby's cheaper than ever. 

I think as a child you play trains (track on the carpet) and if you develop the hobby you may become a  railway modeller in whatever way you want that to be.

My first loco was second hand in about 1975, it was a triang Jinty, I was 10. then I had a GWR Hornby pannier as new and by the time I had track down on some boards I had a Hornby Duchess, well I thought I was king of the world.

Well, I could buy them again today on eBay, the duchess is £15 with the tanks under £10.  They almost give away second hand track.  
 

it’s not like computer games where old versions are not supported.  You can pick any level to enter at.  There are loads of wagons and coaches that are dirt cheap.  Sure they lack the finesse and maybe sound of the latest models but you get what you can to meet the depth of your pocket.

My brother and I had second hand scalextix, loads of rusty track and a whole array of cars that didn’t work and a few that did.  Dad was aboard, We soon learnt to clean track, mend pick up brushes, swop motors in and out of different cars.  That’s how you learn, isnt it.

Today I scratch build / kit build. My modelling time is limited and so projects take a while, my spend is quite small as my expenditure is staggered in line with my progress.

Still loving the hobby, wish I had more time to do it!

Andy

19 hours ago, davknigh said:

It should be possible to gear the centre driver if you go to CSBs for suspension. I grant you it is a bit fussy but it should work. The catch is stuffing the motor in the firebox. I’ll try to post a pic later.

 

As promised

 

 

Cheers,

 

David

Is that just a 15mm x 10mm motor?

it looks huge..

Andy

Interesting reading from everyone.  Nice to see the centre driven roadrunner compact with a 1015 motor vertically in the firebox works, the instructions are not definitive (use of the  ‘May’).  I was also having the same dilemma re compensation.  Driving off the centre axle is not conventional so I will look at hornblocks on the front and back with a rigid centre.

Thank you to all that are contributing,  I’m just waiting on wheels and motor etc to make a start.

Andy

On 25/10/2023 at 17:40, melmerby said:

Hi all

Anyone know how I could find someone to do some gardening?

e.g. Trimming/tidying/grass cutting etc? (rate to be negotiated. i.e. not free!)

 

I've looked in local (through the door,) trade directories and there's nothing less than full scale horticulturists and landscape garderners

Disappointed,  I clicked  this ‘latest content’ wondering if the Gardener was for a bus, a boat or something like a tractor….  

I remember mt grandmother ( now departed) complaining that the state pension barely  covered the cost of the gardener and the housekeeper. 

 
Andy

10 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

View of another L at 7:53 here: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNl9oEEEjjQ

Can Minerva help? They make one in 0 gauge. Or ask on this thread - see if someone will turn their Minerva K upside down (assuming it has valve gear): 

 

 

I also have the RT k class to build, I would be interested in you progress,  Out of interest what motor / gearbox have you opted for….   And where (if you don’t mind me asking) have you stuck the motor?

Andy

On 15/10/2023 at 14:05, AY Mod said:

 

This page shows a service that was not dissimilar to your scenario.

 

https://chasewaterrailwaymuseum.blog/tag/paddy-train/

 

The stop by the bridge would have been well used having steps in the bank, but no platform.

There is a few seconds of Cini of the paddy train referred to in Andy’s post.  It is Ivo Peter (something like) Midland industrials.

The one coach train is coasting down hill with a Victorian Peckett X class on the front in about 1962.

Andy

7 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

As it happens, among the stash of second-hand kits I got at ExpoEM Bracknell back in may is an ABS kit described as "S.R. ex L.S.W.R. 10T round end open wagon 15' 4" x 9' wb, code 896. It's a 5-plank wagon and looks to be very like @wagonbasher's and @41516's; I've not taken it out of the bag so there might be detail differences. Looking in Southern Wagons Vol. 1, I find more variations than I can get my head round!

 

 

As far as I can make out, wagons of this type were being built from the 1880s onwards, well before the LSWR started using the Williams Patent sheet supporter; whether that was retrofitted to all 6,400-odd wagons I don't know. I'll happily build mine for c. 1902 with no sheet supporter and single-sided brakes; there is a photo in Southern Wagons of one with a single wooden brake block but it also has an earlier style of axleboxes and that particular wagon is stated to have been scrapped in 1902!

 

The LBSCR and SER/SECR went in for wagons having a high semi-circular end; this LSWR style of semi-elliptical end appears to be sui generis. Highbridge copied it on wagons that were otherwise the S&DJR version of the standard Midland 8-ton highside wagon (though closer to the wagons of Lot 29 than D299 proper); there is a photo of No. 210 of this type [DY8431,  Southern Wagons Vol. 1 plate 149]. It has a wooden bar across the top from end to end, as a sheet supporter, a style not seen in any of the photos of LSWR opens but seen on LBSCR wagons. From 1903, the S&DJR started using the Williams patent sheet supporter; it's not clear to me from a quick scan of  Southern Wagons when the LSWR started using this.

Decision made, simplify the brakes, no sheet bar of any Kind, paint Sr Brown, with LSWR  decals and sheets.

Thank you to all that contributed

Andy 

6 hours ago, 41516 said:

 

I have one in my box of things to look at -  Definately ABS.  I don't have a copy of Southern Wagons Vol1 to check, but likely ABS 'F.886 LSW D.1309 5pl Open Round End'.

That is the wagon.  I can see from the axle boxes, internal bracing around the curved ends etc.  

Your kit doesn’t have a tarpaulin bar does it.  I have seen similar wagons with that sort of arrangement but there are no signs of where that apparatus would be mounted on this kit.  From what little I can see on the internet the D1309 was without any sort of bar.

Built pre 1913 so all good for a visit to the midlands in 1916.

I presume that brake gear. Wondifully moulded as it is, comes from its Southern region days?

Prototype would have been hand brake on one side only, thoughts?

Thank you all.

Andy

Hi 

I have been working on my wagons for Tackeroo.  (Ww1 military camp, near Cannock / Stafford, 1916). Realising from this thread that most of the traffic to the  camp including munitions would have been in opens, that is my area of attention.  I have this wagon, I presume I bought it second hand because it’s white metal and I know I didn’t make it.  
 

I can see it looks pre grouping by the raised ends and it’s style looks LBSC, LSWR maybe SECR…. 
 

So if it is suitable by date, then the open wagon common user policy means it may have found itself in Staffs ?

Can anyone ID it please

Thank you

Andy

On 06/10/2023 at 13:04, Clive Mortimore said:

If a manufacturer was to make one I bet it will have (insert your least favorite railway here) style of harness so not suitable for my train set.

And a vast array of liveries, network and private owner.

Andy

39 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

Don’t all cakes involve a rise?*

 

Flat cake is no fun. Droopy cake is worse than a dodgy dipped digestive.

 

Or are we straying into the baked cake vs biscuit debacle and no one wants to their pay to be biscuits unless you are a jammy dodger……

Cakes have to prove themselves…

Andy

1 hour ago, Invicta Informant said:

Some of these American football college coaches are some of the highest paid employees in a number of US States. A successful football programme bring lots of prestige to the college.

Don’t let the truth spoil a good joke please.

Andy

On 02/10/2023 at 20:07, burgundy said:

This one is not very big. 

Or this one 

or this one

Best wishes 

Eric 

 

 

Is that the RT models, Manning Wardle.  Andy

5 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

I came across this PO wagon photo on FB this morning.  Obviously from a book but I have no idea which or about copyright.   It shows a train on the LNWR Glasson Dock branch.  The PO Wagon is lettered for W H Shaw but the town name is unreadable.

A bit of research turned up a W H Shaw colliery owner in Haslingden, Lancashire.   The Littlemoor list records that there is a very small photo in one of the Turton volumes.   Sadly I don't seem to be able to search the L & Y PO listing.   Any observations would be welcome.  In my research it appeared that Hornby had done a 00 PO wagon labelled W H Shaw and Sons but on the images I found the place of business wasn't readable.

 

Jamie 

Am I missing something or does it not say Haslingdon on the wagon.  I couldn’t read it at first but once you identified that town / village I can see that is what it says.

Andy

20 hours ago, jwealleans said:

John Peck at Precision Decals.  

Thank you.

Andy

47 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I'm sure you are familiar with this photo:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC 68481, caption: "COPY POSTCARD / PHOTOGRAPH FROM THE JOHN ALSOP COLLECTION COAL 0-6-0ST - Cannock Chase, Staffordshire. - The Tackeroo Express [title + on back of card] - anon 6 John Alsop collection A 94"

Very much so.  Earliest days of the camp in 1914, a train of construction workers mostly carpenters there to build the circa 1000  huts. It is a poem written as if by a carpenter telling tails about the Tackeroo Express, and that is where the name came from.    From 1914 to 1916 the local colliery at Hednesford ran the rail connection to the Rugeley and the Brocton camp.

This is a image of the power station at Brocton after the New Zealand rifle brigade had made it their Uk base ( you can’t go home to New Zealand).  
 

The wagons are a west Cannock colliery which is what Iwould expect as the access to the main line at HeDnesford was via West Cannock rails.

POW sides do aWest Cannock Colliry transfers but it’s for a side and end door 1923 Rich wagon.  That’s way to big .  POWsides can’t digitally decrease the print size, this is silkscreen so no chance.

So,the artwork is simple, I need a white decal custom printed.

Thoughts

Andy

What I really enjoyed with Tackeroo was explaining to local visitors that places they knew and regularly walked  had such history. After Saturday, A number of people were going onto the chase today  with new eyes.

Andy

3 minutes ago, big jim said:

yeah, definitely going to be pics of the day out, looking in my forward to it 

That was this threads 8888 post, that’s got to mean something.

Andy

I was at the Stafford show with the WW1 milita4y camp model Tackeroo.  Had a great time, great show and made sure I bought 3 Slaters D299.  I have learnt from the wise that there should be a greater % of the wagons in my fleet than I currently have.  1 is just not enough!

Andy

3 hours ago, ELTEL said:

Apparently so…. 

Oh dear…..

Andy

3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

@ELTEL hijacked Stafford FM this morning to talk about the exhibition and Stafford Railway Circle. Hit the play button.

 

 

Well, a call out for Tackeroo….   Tel called it a diorama..  I am hoping something moves, clearly Tel is just covering himself.

BTW well done Terry, there is a lot to remember and get out and I think you covered everything.

Andy