wagonbasher

4 minutes ago, SouthernRegionSteam said:

Looking forward to it; as always it's the big highlight on my yearly calendar - can't believe how it's suddenly now upon us already. And don't forget, providing there is room, I'll be bringing my PC and a simple lighting set-up with me; so if there's anything that needs photographing, I am on hand! Also happy to dispense any pointers that I've learnt from doing layout photography for BRM - so if you see me, do ask questions and don't worry about interrupting me; after all I am 'demoing'.

 

And of course I'll be there to pick up any slack, I mean, share the load (and I don't mean the cake, although...) 😉
P.s. What do you warm the camera up with? Is that a photographical trick I've missed? 🤭

They used to warm the camera up with, Magnesium, Potassium Chloride and Antomony Sulphate!  If you have any?

Andy

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

If we are discussing obscure station access, does Lympstone Commando deserve a mention?

Why.  I know it was a commando training camp and you had to have business with the camp.  Did you have to use grappling hooks with ropes and scale an 80 foot cliff with a hunting knife in your teeth?

Andy

20 hours ago, Talltim said:

Cleanliness is not to godliness.

Andy

57 minutes ago, Mark Forrest said:

Not yet, a little distracted today by a day trip to the land of sheep and rain (except it didn't rain).

About 1000' above Barmouth bridge.

Wow, Spams scenery is amazing, giving a real sense of width.   
 

Andy

On 16/04/2023 at 08:23, NHY 581 said:

Our last ( unless I've forgotten someone ) but by no means least layout is Fryers Lane from Mark. 

Mark describes it thus; 

 

"Fryers Lane owes its existence to the Scalefour Society’s Standard Gauge Workbench (SGW) initiative.  The rules of the SGW required the layout to have a scenic length less than 4’ 8 ½” (1435mm).   As originally built, the layout had a fiddle yard at either end and was (very loosely) based on Bloxwich, West Mids.

However, SWAG ’23 (hopefully) sees the unveiling of Fryers Lane in a new form with enlarged scenic area and an additional siding."

 

 

Well, there has indeed been much tinkering carried out by Mark....assisted by Spams and it looks as if it's coming together very nicely indeed, in the true spirit of last minute pre-SWAG knock togethers. ( I may have done a few myself over the years ) 

 

 

 

 

 

Positively modern image in comparison to the other exhibits but please be careful if stopping to observe as the paint/glue may still be wet............

 

Rob. 

Tina is alive and abandoned…..

Andy

31 minutes ago, The Red Admiral said:

well, i live in small towns - generally and don't really like travelling into the big cities if I can avoid it.

and really just wanted it all to be within walking distance, with a small band, equal voices and the social part is most important.

living alone, by choice, during lockdowns, i went a week at a time without seeing anybody whatsoever regularly.

i found it hard to socialise afterwards.

yes, I need people that know and understand more than me, advice and help and to share the hobby.

 

not least, i'm not confident of my woodworking skills and tools, despite training apprentice engineers for a living.

 

and I want to be able to build and run layouts that require more than one operator.

Andy's words are hard and to the point (as is his way) but far more important than stuff like DBS checks given the status of your enterprise..  

Number 1.   You have already joined the best model railway club there is RMweb.  You are only on post 20.  Yes, the forums can't teach you wood working 'skills' on here but they can show you how they did it and if necessary direct you to a company that will makes base boards for you.   There is so much collective knowledge on this forum, more than you will ever need.   

Post on here and you will genuinely get help and advise, possibly, probably  more than you want and contradictory at times, the suggestions were just flowing in when you reached out today.  Regular contributors can become friends especially if you have things in common and keep popping up on the same threads, you may even meet them at shows in person, maybe they are short of a layout operator for that show? 

I personally think you are right joining a club given your objectives but even then a club doesn't have to mean the classic, clubroom, committee, junior section ect.  It can be you going around Bills shed every Sunday morning or every Monday at yours around the kitchen table with a wagon kit each.   

I wish you well in your endeavours

By the way, if you want to make friends, sign your name (not every one will agree with that)

Mine is Andy

Andy

Your commitment to this model is very impressive.   I am very impressed, home etching and looking forward to your power bogies.

I dont mean this as a 'wouldnt it have been better....'  its a genuine question , i dont know the answer to.

How does the Hadfield Balloon plastic kit compare with the prototype, I see you can still get them second hand?

Andy

15 hours ago, coline33 said:

Had you already got MET Vol 2?   The police appear in that as well!!!

Is the main thrust of the police complaint / objections around road safety?   I suppose there are a lot of things we take for granted that didn’t exist then, traffic control at junctions, road crossings for pedestrians, rules around rights of way and speed limits.

where there limits on early electric tram car speeds as there had been with steam.

Andy

12 hours ago, Classsix T said:

 

 

(The bird/feline makeup of the Griffon now getting me thinking of the dichotomy of two species that separately are totally incompatible!)

Agree, Many of those ancient mythological creatures made up of two animals don’t work because of the number of limbs.  All mammals and birds have four limbs, what evolution does with them is varied and sometimes bizarre but, Centaurs, Pegasus, Griffons and dragons all have two too many limbs.  
 

There is evidence of drug use in ancient cultures so Who knows what they thought up, I’m sure they were not stock taking limbs.
 

Andy

On 07/04/2023 at 09:41, Mark Forrest said:

The Great Western Hotel next to the station was where Spams and I stayed last year (and are again this year).  A little more spendy than some other options, but a very nice hotel with an excellent brekkie.

https://thegreatwesternhotel.org/

 

Have you started the fiddle yard yet?

Andy

I often wonder if modern paint have the longevity of the 'lead' based paints of yesteryear.   You know how you occasionally see some ancient painted advert on the side of a building, all faded but still there maybe 100 years later.  Would todays acrylic pant survive 100 years?

Andy

The layout New Haden Colliery now owned by Geoff Cooke used to attend shows with an early to mid 50’s period of operation and had and needed a significant number of coal wagons.  We would operate a mix of 16 ton minerals in various states many as new but also ex PO wagons and tried to capture 15 years of essential maintenance only.  To get the mix right we looked at as many photographs of coal trains as possible counting the steels and the wooden bodied wagons seeing what sort of ratio operated at each period.

On the specifics for the OP’s question and subsequent clarification, yes you could just fade down the livery of your PO wagon it is not inconceivable that it survived as is until very early BR period.

however, it will need some mods.  The black square panel with its PO fleet number (just guess that, the records of what number was allocated to what wagon is lost, so find a picture of a PO wagon and add one to its fleet number).  It will need its tare weight adding.  If the wagon has an end opening door it will need a white stripe running at 45 degrees, they often painted the strap.  If it has bottom doors in the floor it will need two small white stripes on the side door pointing down.

There are some images on the net, more in books.

if you type Coal Wagon P306714 into google images you will see Acton Hall Colliery 6 plank wagon.

see the ‘P’ prefixed fleet number and 12 T capacity.  Note painted directly onto the old livery without a black panel.  See also the painted white strip on the strap denoting the end door, the tare weight to the right and the two angled white stripes showing it has bottom doors in the floor. The old livery is very faded and the top plank on the side door has been replaced and possibly some of the side planks to the left of the door.  Managed to get a link

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FSalopianLyne%2Fstatus%2F1152298500253786118&psig=AOvVaw0tfLiIVDRu4gBUTW_x4tOA&ust=1681544091532000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CBAQjRxqFwoTCPi_loXuqP4CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

A glass fibre brush used on the models lettering along the plank (in the direction of the wood grain) will help give you the faded look.

Andy

Hi

So horse towed narrow boats or barges would dominate canal traffic until the last decade of the 19th centaury.  Today and back then canal boats pass to the right of each other (they in effect drive on the right hand side of the canal / river).  This practise is worldwide for waterway navigation and although differences will exist boats generally pass on the right.   So the boat furthest away from the towpath will pause, lower its line (rope) into the water for the boat closest to the towpath to pass over it and the then all continue on there way.

They would not choose to untether the boat from the horse where possible.   You find at locks, bridges with a hole for the rope to save untethering, this one is on the Stratford and Avon canal, see the two separately canter levered bridges allowing a slot for the rope to pass through:

sorry had to delete the image I couldnt get it to be just a link

and roving bridges that carry the towpath at 90 degrees over the canal allow for the horse to cross and then come under the bridge so as to keep the rope on the right side of the bridge with no need to un tether the horse, this one is on the Macclesfield canal:

sorry had to delete the image I couldnt get it to be just a link

I have heard about priority travel, the one that springs to mind would be the Shropshire Union Fly Boats, High speed travel changing horses regularly to keep up the pace, apparently they had priority and would presumably always pass nearest to the towpath whether that was to the left or the right of the other boat?  

Families would run these horse boats, with a young family member often on the bank with the horse.  Horses became conditioned and new when to start and stop

Steam boats were like locomotives to the few companies that ran them.  Teams of men not families running the steam boat picking up what were effectively horse boats these were run by families, one or two at a time and at the destination they would drop of the towed boat and pick up another boat or two for the return journey.  This all kicked off in the 1890's and into the next centenary but diesel engines were to become king from the early 1920's into the 40's.   After the introduction of diesel power, most (not all) boats were built to run in pairs as motor boat and butty (Butty's very similar to horse boats with the big tillers).  

As you say,  no issue with ropes with a motor boat.

Andy

2 hours ago, big jim said:

Back to the miller again after actually having Easter weekend off! 
 

last night was in atherstone, longer to get to and from there than to do the job!

 

bescot 

 

Into ‘Asda sidings’ in nuneaton to change ends 

 

Atherstone 

 

Machine split off and hauled to the end of the job, 200m round the corner! 

 

Once back together and ready to depart it was off to Stafford to change ends again 

 

 

 

and back to bescot, left site 2 hours early but due to possessions and being routed through Wolverhampton to turn the machine it took me 6 hours to get back to bescot! 
 

on it again tonight in Lichfield this time 

Jim, I love your thread, your night time shots, the fact that you can and do stand where us enthusiast’s can’t.  I reckon there is a book there, if you can see yourself as an author?

Andy

8 minutes ago, coline33 said:

 

I see you've 'bagged' them for posterity, excellent news.  Have you seen anything like that before?

Andy

Hi

I didn't know where to post this but this thread is the closest I can get to the topic:

This has been posted elsewhere on RMweb

Andy

Looking great with only a couple of weeks to go.  You haven’t started the fiddle yard yet have you.  No point getting ahead of yourself?

Andy

2 hours ago, 97406 said:

 

I think it was better for getting traction from horses’ hooves as well. I remember my Mum saying that when I was a kid.

I also think there is a horse and cart / waggon rational.  Natural hard stone setts / cobbles that have been ‘split’ don’t come out the same size.  Before you lay your cobbles you would sort them to size and lay each row to that size, so the first row may be 4”, the next full row may be 4 1/2 “ and so on.  The width way joints would all line up for drainage as Andy indicated but it means that as each axle passes each row of cobbles, the impact is constant to both wheels.  As a passenger, the driver (is that the right word) or your goods would prefer the continuous up down to being shook from side to side which is what you 2ould get as one wheel went down into a gap as the adjacent wheel was riding over the top of a cobble. 
 

does that make sense?  Note the first few rows adjacent to the pavement are often arranged the other way, like a soldier course.  Roads often had this cobble gutter for a few rows even on Macadam roads (that is the road construction designed by Scottish engineer Mc Adam which involved compacted stones of various sizes and nothing to do with tar or bitumen).

Andy

On 17/03/2023 at 00:22, Anotheran said:

I was very pleased to see on the pre-grouping waggons thread a post by wagonbasher Andy saying that Tackeroo may be at the Stafford show in September. I only saw it in Gnosall and it wasn't working very well at the time so am very keen to see the Andy squared layout up and running!

 

Go for it lads!

Your very kind with your choice of words, the fact is that at Gnosall nothing ran at all….   The trip to the EM Gauge society show was better but not by much.  Making plans and snagging list and it will be good for Stafford.  
 

Nothing has happened since 2017.
 

You can’t rush these things 

Andy

30 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Can't believe it's ten years dince I posted this.

 

I know, although we were right to let it go I can’t get used to it not being at the house of one of the group.

it did a bit of sofa surfing. 

Andy

1 minute ago, Nick Holliday said:

Searchable index on the Lightmoor Press website.

Just found it, incredible resource, Thank you

Andy

20 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

If the photo of the colliery wagon it's possible to manipulate it then edit it and Powdides will then do transfers for you. I'ts a bit laborious but works.  I did all my  Dales private owners that way..the key is to use a command called edit perspective to bring the side into a proper rectangle. If anyone is interested I could show a couple of examples.

 

Jamie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dapol have two livery versions of CRC wagons.  I suspect therefore that some works photos are available, they won’t have tried two hard to find source material.  I guess there is an image or two in the Turton PO books.  How do I find out without buying about 17 books.  My book case couldn’t take it anyway.  Has anyone index’s them, don’t mind buying 1 or 2….

Andy

On 14/03/2023 at 22:34, Compound2632 said:

 

Yes, in the Great War there was no common use of PO wagons - that was an intrusion too far onto private property. So for a Great War layout, one still needs to pay attention to who the local coal merchants and factors were and which collieries they got their coal from.

 

At the start of the Second World War, PO wagons were requisitioned and, ultimately, compensation paid to the owners. What I've not understood is the status of PO wagons built during that war.

The reason for asking these questions is that I have dusted off ‘Tackeroo’ WW1 Cannock Chase training camp layout built by Andy York and myself but has gathered dust since 2018.  Looking to add to the rolling stock and expecting to be at the Stafford show in September.  There was significant demand for coal, up to 20,000 troops at Brocton needing heat and fuel for cooking and its own power station with 4 boilers serving Brocton and a similar size camp nearer Rugeley.

The railway was built and operated (until the ROD took over in 1916) by Cannock and Rugeley Colliery, later became West Cannock No 5.

There is a photo including a wagon taken at the power station with a Cannock and Rugeley Colliery wagon in view so that’s all logical.  I don’t think POW sides do a CRC transfer (what a joy flicking through the 1000+ transfers is).

First picture on this web page.  I think it is the Red Livery with just C R C on the side rather than a grey background which was an alternative livery. 
https://chasewaterrailwaymuseum.blog/2016/01/23/chasewater-railway-museum-a-photo-of-a-tackeroo-military-railway-loco-brocton-camp-power-station-plus-its-history/

Edited to add links

Andy
 

8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

I've had pointed out to me article N712, L. Tavender, Coal Trade Wagons, p. 87. This states that the initial requisition order only applied to wagons extant at 3 September 1939. However, wagon production continued, with the consequence that additional requisition orders had to be made at intervals from April 1940 right up to 1947. Tavender, N577, p. 88, also suggests 5,000 PO wagons built 1941-47.

 

My informant also recalls reading somewhere (Bill Hudson, possibly) that if wagons built during wartime could be built and purchased for less than the government compensation payment, it was possible to make a profit from having them requisitioned. The biggest difficulty with this wheeze was obtaining sufficient timber.

It crossed my mind that if new wagons were being ordered that there may be some financial advantage through the compensation process.  I even mentioned that to my wife Jane.  She wasn’t interested really but she smiled and nodded.

Andy

28 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Since I have seen several comments about the owners of new wagons not seeing them until after the war, that suggests that they went straight into the pool. They did of course get compensation, and were expecting to see the wagons at the end of the war.

I am not sure what wagons were used for the coal trains to Scapa Flow, but I have a vague memory that one of the major South Wales wagon owners hired a lot to the government. But that is not going to affect local coal traffic. What may have affected where wagons were seen was changed in traffic patterns because of the war.

But please do not regard me as an expert!

Jonathan

Presumably any new wagons delivered during WW2 pooling would have been ordered prior to the conflict.  No one would order a brand new vehicle for it be used once and potentially never seen again.

Andy

Andy