mikeh

Just remembered about this thread having been tied up with less interesting things of late. Many thanks for posting the wonderful Littleton shots PGH and for giving me a better timescale for the Rowntrees warehouse. I had a couple unofficial of cab rides on the GECs and they were absolutely hellfire engines. If Mr Edge does one of those I may have to learn how to solder! I also managed a brajkevan ride behind the YE No.6 on an organised visit. Some of my pics No.6 at the pit head 9th july 1987 Western King outside the shed 9th July 1987 Western Progress at Otherton 9th August 1988 Western Queen at Otherton 9th July 1987 Regards Mike

Here's a plan of the sidings at March 1976 after the changes made for the introduction of MGR working: It shows the extent BR locos were permitted to work. The Rowntrees siding is the one above the "Through" siding. This was shunted by the NCB engines, the wagons arriving first thing on the trip from Bescot - the trip engine then took out the first MGR. The warehouse is the one shown in Rob's pictures. I am still trying to trace the date this opened? It was built on the site of the former landsale yard. Regards Mike

Certainly looks like that was the case. The old No.2 would have been the other side of the bridge. Regards Mike

Anything you can dig out Dave would be much appreciated Regards Mike

For Dave, Eric and anybody else interested in Norton Junction I have had some more clarification from Ian: "In answer to the question, it must be understood that prior to 1927 there were only two boxes at Norton Junction; No.1 and No.2. As you can see below the old No.2, which itself seems to have arrived on the scene around 1902, was replaced by No.3 and became the shunter's cabin, while a "new" No.2 was introduced to serve the new "Down Empty Sidings". No.2 box was "new" at Norton Junction by 1927. The down empty sidings (13 in total) at No.2 were all new and included a small hump; there is a note “cabin top and apparatus transferred from Rugby Loco Cabin”. It was a 25 lever frame, girders for 15+10, with 20 working. and girders were provided. On the up side, the new sidings 7 to 16 and the existing 1 to 6 were fed from a remodelled fan. In all the “Up” loaded sidings now comprised of 1-15 loaded sidings, 16 crippled wagons. As was the norm, the sidings were numbered outwards from the running lines. The old No.2 SB, which was a signal cabin north of Highbridge, together with a ground frame (located where the new Norton Jcn No.3 was to be), was replaced by a new No.3. The lever frame was new, tappet frame no.2284 ordered 28.7.26 from Crewe Works. It was a 25 lever frame, girders for 15+10, with 20 working. Both boxes looked to all intense and purposes LNW, but they were constructed by the LMS. They had brick bases and timber upper frames with out side loos. The new No.2 box was signed off on the 22.9.1927, and the Down empty sidings from 12.10.1927. The extended and re-modelled Up loaded sidings followed on 17.10.1927. A further letter dated 31.12.1927 confirms completion of the "sidings accommodation" and so I think it is realistic to say that by Ocotober 1927 the works were complete and by January 1928 they were fully operational." So it seems that the latterday Norton No.2 was an LMS box but with stong LNWR origins.... Hope that's of interest Regards Mike

A friend of mine, Ian Pell, has been researching Norton Junction and the South Staffs line in some depth for a long time. As he is usually a mine of information I asked him about No.2 box and got this reply: "Both Norton Junction No.2 & No.3 boxes were not LNW in origin. They were constructed by the LMS partially in LNW style. I notice in the Eric Steele notes that he attributes the opening of No.2 as 1895 - sorry this is totally incorrect and is the same problem and trap that Bob Yate fell into. The frame date is correct as this was when the frame was installed at Rugby Loco. box! However, No.2 box and No.3 were much later LMS additions when the up yard was extended, and the Down yard built. I am chasing pictures of No.2 I dont recall either box being burnt out by vandalism (I'll stand corrected),but I think the timber upper frames were probably burnt. Again details for No.2 are vague - still standing Nov 1977, but for No.3 it was still standing in December 1983 while all around it the tracks were being ripped up. It was, however, in a total state of dereliction from around late 1981. It had gone by early 1984." The Bob Yate refrence is to the two part History of the South Staffordshire railway, which unfortunately contains numerous factual errors which detract from the accuracy of the book. Probaly rules Norton No.2 out as a suitable prototype anyway! BTW your listing was very useful Eric and please excuse the slight rant from Ian - it's what a little healthy obssesion does to us I am afraid! Regards Mike

Just going back to Beast's excellent signalling plan for a minute, I would tend towards replacing the signal off the works line with a stop board. Although by no means a signalling expert I have spent an inordinate amount of my busy life recently studying yards and private sidings in the Black Country, particularly on the LNWR and that would be just a bit more representitive I would feel. Particularly if the exchange sidings were busy enough to warrant a resident BR shunter then a "stop and await permission" would be perfectly adequate, the shunter being the person to authorise the move into the exchange sidings and confirm there was no conflict with BR movements.That would also need a nicely modelable shunters cabin! On the rolling mills theme, by the 70s the principal rail connected site was at Wolverhampton (once the Wolverhampton Iron & Steel Co and later BSC) where they produced various steel bar and section. The rail traffic used the quaintly named "Osier Bed Sidings" on the Midland line from Heath Town Jn to High Level, with steel tripped from Bilston and further afield. That closed in 2009 but rail traffic petered out in the 80s. In the 70s the Spring Vale Jocko worked trips to Osier Bed sidings as required. More info here - http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/OtherTrades/BCN/OsierBed.htm Hope that's of use - I am really looking forward to seeing this! Regards Mike

Here's an ATV Today clip about Black Country food http://www.macearchive.org/Archive/Title/atv-today-12091972-black-country-food/MediaEntry/17987.html Sue Jay - brings back memories..... Regards Mike

Some more 1980s pics: 25211 near Mold Junc 20th August 1986 31247 at New Bilton and Marton Jnc 20th Jujne 1985 and 31206 at Burton Dassett 25th June 1985 Appolgies for the appalling choice of motive power in the last three pics.... Regards Mike

Some notes from the Midlands... Not seen Bedworth Murco mentioned? Still served most days by trains from Lindsey & Port Clarence and occasionally Robeston. The big one in the Midlands is of course Kingsbury (Warwickshire Oil Storage) of course with up to 3 trains a day from Humberside. Esso at Northampton received trains from Fawley until the pipeline opened to Bromford Bridge when it was served by rail from there. Abbey Foregate was also served from Bromford this way. Bromford was famous for the pairs of SR BRCW Type 3s from Fawley but also had two trains a day from Avonmouth King Edward Dock well into the 60s. Rowley Regis took product from Llandarcy, Stanlow, Ellesmere Port and Thameshaven Albion initially took product from Ellesmere Port then Cardiff then the new refinery at Robeston Warwick was a Regent terminal in the old Cape Yard Banbury was another Hartwells location, served from Stanlow and occasionally Llandarcy There was a Petrofina terminal at Nuneaton, served from Stanlow and later from Avonmouth Stow Heath was the Esso terminal at Priestfield while there was a BP siding at Wednesfield Heath Soho Pool has featured in these columns before with a Regent/Texaco terminal served from Cardiff until 1981 There was another Regent terminal at Hartlebury (Leapgate Sdgs) on the Bewdley branch, served from Avonmouth as a Q path with Nuneaton. Industrial users with block trains apart from Patent Shaft included Croda Chemicals at Four Ashes (Stanlow & Thameshaven) IMI Witton (Stanlow) Round Oak Steel Works (Stanlow) BIP at Langley Green (Stanlow) BMC at Longbridge (Stanlow) There was also traffic to gas works in the 60s at Coleshill Lurgi (Hebranston and Thameshaven or Stanlow)) plus Naptha from West Thurrock for a while. Tipton Lurgi (ditto) Nechells (ditto) Northampton (Thameshaven) Most of the 60s power stations take oil by rail for starting the boilers, both Ironbridge (Cardiff) and Rugeley (Lindsey or Thameshaven) did so with Rugeley still getting the occasional train. Oil traffic was one of the big sucess stories of the Beeching era with all the major oil companies signed up to long term contracts which committed them to building large fleets of rail tank cars. Without that the pipeline networks would have been built much sooner. Regards Mike

Even more off topic but that's not quite right. It's based on Mode S Transponder data which is a transmission from the aircraft in response to the aircraft's transponder being interogated by ground based Secondary Surveilance Radar (SSR). The previous Mode C transponders just transmitted a four digit ID code ("Squawk"), as allocated to the flight by ATC, in response to SSR interogation and this appeared on the ATC radar plot either as a 4 digit number or translated by computer software to the aircraft callsign and limited flightplan data. Mode S allows selective interogation of individual aircraft transponders and in it's elementary level (ELS) provides the aircraft's unique 24 bit identifier (which relates to but is different from it's registration), it's range, altitude and callsign. Aircraft with Enhanced Mode S (EHS) capability also provide a datlink capability for navigation data from the aircraft Flight Management System (FMS) which provides the tracking information shown on websites such as FlightRadar 24. The difference in capabilities is why some aircraft dont track. There are commercially available receivers such as SBS-1 from Kinetic Avionics which receive Mode S data and display it as a virtual radar display. The tranmissions will be line of sight. The websites network multiple recievers but where there are no receivers there will be gaps in coverage. In most European states Elementary Mode S is madatory for IFR flights and in most controlled airspace. EHS is only mandatory in a few instances, the London Terminal Area being the only UK one, but a lot of aircraft currently hold exemptons so still do not plot. On the other hand most recently delivered aircraft will have EHS capability from new and many others have already been upgraded so do show up. This is of course different to the many commercial US Flight Trackers who actually buy radar data feeds from the FAA. In the UK, NATS will not provide such data for "security reasons"... Anyway, back to Uglies - I had assumed that the bloke with the bulldozer thought he had been told to deal with another batch of sheds.... Regards Mike

Hi Ben I have a copy of the 18 April 1966 to 5 march 1967 Devon & Cornwall area Local freight WTT. The Falmouth branch trip was Laira 727 diagram, 1100 HP D63xx Type 2 Diesel, Target J11 Worked as follows MO 0J11 0405 St.Blazey Shed-Truro 0450 MX 0J11 0335 St.Blazey Shed-St.Austell 0440 5C22 0450 St.Austell-Truro 0525 (0225 Tavi Jnc) (Z) MThFO 9J11 0530 Truro-Penryn 0555 0J11 0604 Penryn-Truro 0619 DLY (Z) 9J11 0637 Truro-Penryn 0704 9J11 0805 Penryn-Falmouth 0817 Shunt 0825-0905 9J11 0920 Falmouth-Penryn 0933 9J11 0958 Penryn-Truro 1026 SO (Z) 0J11 1100 Truro-St.Blazey Shed 1145 Service SX Q 9J11 1245 Truro-Penryn 1315 9J11 1424 Penryn-Truro 1451 9J11 1500 Truro-Newham 1525 9J11 1605 Newham-Truro 1630 SX 9J11 1642 Truro-Penryn 1704 9J11 1809 Penryn-Falmouth 1821 9J11 1926 Falmouth-Penryn 1929 9J11 2007 Penryn-Truro 2037 SX 0A26 2125 Truro-Drump Lane 2140 6C85 2205 Drump Lane-Par 2318 0Z28 2323 Par-St.Blazey Shed 2333 Service SO (K) 0J11 0535 St.Blazey Shed-St.Blazey Yd 0540 5J11 0555 St.Blazey Yd-St.dennis Jn 0650 Shunt Retew Branch and St.dennis Tip 0655-1100 5J11 1105 St.Dennis Jn-St.Blazey Jn 1150 0J11 1155 St.Blazey yd-St.Blazey Shed 1200 Z - Except Sats 18 June-3 Sept K - Sats 18 June-3 Sept Diagram subject to alteration by Minerals Area Manager Fowey as required Truro also had a 350hp Laira 748 diagram Target No J77 Truro Goods Yard Shunt No.1 0400-1150 SO 0400-2300 SX Also worked 9J77 0605 DLY Truro-Newham 0635 9J77 0815 DLY Newham-Truro 0845 9J77 0900 SX Q Truro-Newham 0930 9J77 1000 SX Q Newham-Truro 1030 Other St.Blazey trip engines visited Truro as follows: Laira 721 D63xx Type 2 DH Off Target no. J06 in multiple with Turn 725 D63xx Off Target J10 SX 0J06 1850 St.Blazey Shed-St.Blazey Yd 1855 6C83 1900 St.Blazey Yd- Tavistock Jn 2116 6C70 2210 Tavistock Jn-Truro 0058 0Z28 0120 Truro-St Blazey Shed 0205 Laira 722 D63xx Type 2 DH Target No. J07 SO 18 June-3 Sept 0J07 0900 St.Blazey Shed-Truro 0910 9J07 1015 Truro-Drump Lane 1043 9J07 1110 Drump Lane-Roskear Jn 1123 Q 9J07 1210 Roskear Jn-Drump Lane 1222 Q 3J07 1250 Drump Lane-Chacewater 1300 EBV 9J07 1320 Chacewater-Drump Lane 1331 5J07 1400 Drump Lane-Tavistock Jn 1826 0J07 19xx Tavistock Jn-St.Blazey Shed 20xx There were also the following extracts from other diagrams: Laira 39 D6xx Extract covered ThO ---- 0555 Truro-Drump Lane 0623 0A88 0640 Drump Lane-Truro 0655 SO (Not 18June-3 Sept) 9B26 1222 Truro-Drump Lane 1312 Forms 1350 Drump lane-Tavistock Jn And Laira 23 D8xx extract DLY 9B79 0735 Ponsandane-St.Erth 0752 Shunt 0755-0855 9B79 09xx St.Erth-Truro xxxx Then works 9J79 1110 Truro-Burngullow 1139 9J79 1200 Burngullow-St.Austell 1208 9J79 1321 St.Austell-St.Blazey 1350 Then works 1520 St.Blazey-Tavistock Jn SX Hope that is of use Regards Mike

Quite likely but it was an impulse buy when browsing the Hattons website one evening. Have to say the replacement buffer beam arrived this morning so can't fault the response. Mike

My Kestrel arrived yesteday. Had a couple of problems unfortunately. First off there were couplings in the box but they had got wedged between the body and one bogie. Soon sorted with a pair of tweezers but second problem was that one buffer beam had been forced off and in the process a buffer head had been broken off. Not the end of the world but a tad annoying though. Rang Hatton's today. Spoke to Andy who told me he had a spare Kestrel they were using for spares (!) and he would mail me a replacement buffer beam assembly from it. Happy enough with that outcome but did wonder what other problems lead them to using one for spares? There was a spare buffer beam in the box but as it is a limited edition and I have not decided yet whether to run it or keep it stored away it would be nice to have the replacement anyway. Now I am sure I read somewhere they planned to trial it on coal trains to Banbury before the ER got their mits on it... Regards Mike