Atso

A second recommendation for Tamiya masking tape, if you're not already using it Graeme. I haven't looked back since I bought my first roll, awesome stuff and you can buy it in sheets too apparently!

Looks like a good start Mike and an interesting kit. I thought about doing something similar in N gauge but decided I was pushing the boundaries a little too much for some <0.2mm beading! One query though, if I may. I once used French Polish due to it's, shellac content, but then found I couldn't paint over the top of it. Is this a common problem and do you use anything specific to provide a barrier between the polish and paint? In my case at the time, I got around this problem by coating the card with a thin layer of Halfords car resin and letting that soak into the card - it created the hardest 0.25mm cardboard I've ever seen!

Thank you Tony and everyone for your kind comments. As I said before, while I've been moderately successful lining single red (and yellow on some teaks) lines in the past, this has been a whole different (and steep) learning curve.That being said it has also been a very enjoyable process (if nerveracking at times) and I think that I've spent less time getting to this stage (not including the time for the paint to dry) than I did with 3279 by cutting and shunting tiny bits of decal. Looking at Tony's photos of rtr locos, I don't think I'm to that standard yet and most certainly not in the same universe as Mr Rathbone! Personally, I'd like to get a bit more consistent with the width of my lines. I've created the brass beading around the top of the splasher (needs some touching up), did some minor touching in with a brush and ruled on some white onto my scotch tape boiler bands this morning. In in each case, I've learnt that it is far easier to rule/brush the lighter colour and use the darker one to patch up any mistakes - should have paid more attention to Mr Rathbone's techniques here. Anyway, as this is simply an experiment it's not disastrous and far far better than anything I've managed to achieve in the past. I'm really surprised and please with the results so far and I hope that I'm able to repeat (or better) this when I get to tackling the real model. As Tony says have a go at these things, you never know when you'll surprise yourself!

Hi all, Sorry for backing up the topic a little but I've been interested by Phil Brighton's challenge to have to line out his DJH C1 atlantic as well as Tony's (and other's) comments about doing things one's self. Therefore I've decided to break cover and share my recent effort at painting and lining. I recently purchased a copy of Ian Rathbone's painting and lining book and have been reading with interest. While I have previously managed to scratch some red lines onto N gauge bodies of locomotives the distinctive black and white lining of an LNER green liveried locomotive has defeated me. I previously lining my model of C1 3279 using transfers which were far better than my handlining efforts at the time. However, I've been itching to crack handlining LNER green just once and Ian's book has been a real blessing in encouraging me to have a go. I've been playing with a rejected 3D print (dome and chimney issues) I have of a LNER B2 'Sam Fay' which I've painted using an airbrush and Tamiya acrylic paints. For the green I used Tamiya's flat green which doesn't look too bad against Precision's donny green but not a perfect match. Then the fun bit has come and spent a couple of days happily honing my bow pen to a better shape (as per the book) and lining 'Sir Sam the reject' using Humbrol enamels. The white and red lines have been done using the bow pen while the black lining is a mix of pen and brush work. I'm quite happy with how this is turning out at the moment but I've discovered that talent such that displayed by Ian Rathbone and Larry Goddard is a time honed skill of which I have a lot to learn! My own benchmark standard for this experiment can be seen behind 'Sir Sam' in the form of a Dapol A3. The two pence piece is there to give an idea of the size of the model. I'm doing some experiments using scotch tape for the boiler bands at the moment but will likely use decal paper when I get around to lining out a locomotive for real - please excuse the hair on the firebox, in my haste to splash some paint around I missed it!

Graeme, it can be done. My N gauge model of 3279 (which you became acquainted with at Nottingham) was painted and lined in five days, making its debut on the North of England line at The International N Gauge Show in September last year. Admittedly this was achieved by using acrylic paints (faster drying time), omitting the red frame lining and final satin varnish (both yet to be done). However, offsetting that was the fact I also fully lined out my K2, using a bow pen, at the same time. Phil, as I said on 'the other' forum, excellent work on that C1. It's progressed quite a bit since your last post and I look forward to seeing it successfully completed by the end of the week.

Those look fantastic Graeme, a real tribute to your scratch building and casting skills! Did you get my PM on 'the other forum' by the way?

I repainted some early Dapol maroon and Minitrix coaches a few years back. If I recall correctly, I used an orange undercoat and then several thin coats of Ronseal teak varnish with final lining out done using a bow pen. Not as good as others I'll admit but I'm happy with them...

On the rare occasions that I use the white strong and flexible material, I usually use a very runny superglue applied using some kind of spatula. Once set it makes the plastic much easier to sand as the glue fills in the pores but be careful not to stick yourself to it.!

I find it interesting that 3D printing has been mentioned again with regards to cost and quality. I would completely agree that 3D printing cannot provide the modeller with a direct route to a completed model, due to the stepping effect - although this is improving all the time. However, with patience and by learning a different set of skills a good quality model will result from a print. Yes, there are some compromises and limitations (when are there not in our hobby?) for example, I doubt that any 3D printer could produce a 20thou cab side that would survive any real handling but some careful design work can hide this to an extent - personally, I like to try and get as close as possible to the tolerances now accepted in ready to run products. In regard to 'new age' kit designers/manufacturers using 3D printing, in my opinion, there are a few significant advantages to more traditional methods - please note however that I am only referring to my experiences operating within the N gauge market: - By selling via a 3D printing bureau the seller has no set up costs. Yes, the unit cost (in my experience) is slightly higher than resin or white metal casting but then again, the designer would not have to pay up front for a batch of 50 - 100 castings. With the apparent decline of traditional kit sales described within this thread, surely this would seem to be a wiser business model in uncertain times. - Should a major manufacturer decide to produce a model that has been offered as a 3D print then the seller has only lost the time taken to create the CAD (assuming they did the CAD work themselves) and no real other upfront costs - annoying but not unlikely to be a major financial impact. - Stock, there is little need to hold stock (making home living conditions more acceptable) nor is there a need to assemble the various components and put them into a box - does this free up more time to be getting on with designing the next model? - Time: I would assume that the traditional creation of masters for casting would take quite a bit of time to fabricate(?). Can the components be produced quicker on a computer? I would hope that the appropriate research of the subject would be unaffected regardless of the chosen production method! I have the greatest respect and admiration for those who can take an etched sheet and some castings and produce something that looks so exquisite - even more so for those who can scratchbuild! This is something that I tried many times to do but could never produce a model that I was happy with. There has been much speculation that the newer generation of modellers seem to expect instant gratification from ready to run/plant products which is considered to be another reason why traditional kit sales are declining. It is interesting to then read posts that then point out that 3D printing doesn't offer instant gratification and, apparently, those same people do not wish to learn a new set of skills to get the best out of a different medium. As a heavy user of 3D printing, I often wonder how I should describe myself within the hobby - I have been told on many occasions that I'm not a kit/scratch builder but neither do I exclusively use items straight out of a box. I guess that it would best be summed up the same way that everyone else would surely like to be, a modeller (just not a traditional one!). Finally, I've attached some pictures of my models in various states of completion. All are 3D printed, although almost every loco is on an adapted commercial chassis (I've not progressed that far yet!) - the exception of the J50 which has an incredible custom built chassis (N-Stars). Apologies, as some of these may well have appeared before.

What's going on? Six days without an update! I need my Stirling fix!

Tony, Did these conversions get covered in a article in the Railway Modeller in the 80's? As a child, I remember being fascinated by similar conversions (might they have been the same ones) and always wanted to try it. This was before I became old enough to be trusted with a soldering iron, settled on the 1930's scene and switched to N gauge. If this was you, then thank you for providing me with much enthusiasm and a nice recollection of a childhood memory.

Many thanks for the information.

Oh, leave this cretin alone and go and build something!!!

Those look really good. Nice, crisp and no trace of the printing process. I know of two companies offering this service - which one did you go with? BTW, what happened to your old N gauge K3?

...and learn how to spell, apparently!

What are these strange and exotic things of which you speak? Mike, I've been following this thread (it's a must read for me know) and really do admire the work that has gone into producing this locomotive. I'm sure the finished article will be just as spectacular as the building of it!

Hi Tony, In regard to my own comments, I am referring to those who add additional smoke effects and 'paint' out the room that the layout is housed in (yes, I appreciate that you add 'sky' to some of your pictures). For me, I am happy to see pictures of models without 'steam' and if a wall, bookcase or window gets into the shot then it only serves to remind me just how small and detailed these models really are - therefore adding to my appreciation and enjoyment of the workmanship, not detracting from it. I remember reading an article in MRJ about the late Guy Williams where the writer described his models as imperfect but capturing the character and essence of the prototype (not a direct quote by any means). If I recall correctly, many of the models photographed were against plain backgrounds, were nicely in focus and really did highlight to quality of the workmanship, warts and all. Most importantly was that every single model was believable and very much displayed there own character and for me this is something the has to be attributed to the builder for making such a stunning model and the photographer for being able to capture the essence of the subject on film (or file!). All that being said, I am slightly hypocritical as my desktop display is a very nice picture of my n gauge J50 (I designed the body and Hans Starman scratchbuild a compensated chassis for me) that Andy York kindly took at Ally Pally last year. I understand from Andy that this photograph was touched up as some of the transfers have crazed slightly and this really had shown up under the strong light. I've included the picture below as it really does show Andy's skill with a camera and editing software (as well as to show that I really am a hypocrite in my own comments!). I was present at St. Albans on Sunday and would have very much liked to have met you in person (unfortunately not to be). I do very much enjoy this thread (although rarely contribute to it) and always look forward to seeing the progress made on your layout, locos and stock. Finally, and slightly off topic, it is great to hear that Fence Houses won an award. Sunday was the first time I've seen this layout in the flesh and it was simply awe inspiring in every way for me.

Clive, I'm in the same boat as you regarding all this camera talk and couldn't agree more that the modelled subject is more important that trying to create a 100% life like picture - let the quality of the model do the talking (sorry, I know this isn't a view shared by everyone). While, completely outside of my own knowledge and interests, those scratchbuilt Baby Deltics really look these business! I really do admire anyone who can take raw materials and turn them into a high quality model - I tried for years but was never satisfied with my own efforts, hence my conversion to CAD and 3D printing eight or nine years ago. I agree with your last comment but I do very much appreciate the quality of the photographs that some people here can achieve. A model railway is ultimately a bit of fantasy (regardless if it is based on an actual location or not), personally I'd like to see models and layouts in their natural environments, warts and all.

Hi Nigel, That looks really good! It looks like you've primed the whole locomotive without disassembling it, is that the case? Also, how do you line the boiler with the handrails in place? All the N gauge models I do I leave the handrails off until I've completed lining - which can occasionally create some problems... Many thanks

Graeme, when I was lining out my N gauge 3279 the boiler washout plugs proved to be a difficult area to get right. After much thought (having attempted to do this unsuccessfully with my bow pen) I decided to simply paint the whole plug white, carefully shaping the 'blob' round using a fine brush and some thinners. Once the paint was completely dry I repeated this again for the black section, not 100% perfect but good enough for me (see the attached picture). Maybe a similar technique could be employed for the bogie wheel centres? Note, I've still got to line out the running plate, tender and wheels!

Good use of some modern image stock (?). All that beading would've given me a headache! I've got a hankering for some Gresley steel stock, specifically the five coach twin third, composite, twin third of which several were built (using the cardboard side techniques described in one of the RMs earlier this year, although with my own spin on this approach). My problem will be the opposite of yours though, although completely flush this coaches were finished in 'mock' teak with full lining! Theres nothing there to help get things straight! However, I do have a 'cunning plan' which I'll be eager to try out once I'm in a position to do some modelling again!

They look awesome Mike, I would never have guessed the method of coupling while 'play' on NoEL last September! The coaches most certainly looked closer together than 4mm when 3279 was hauling them (they seem like they're almost touching in the video I took). I've got a few fixed rakes to make up myself so may well use the hook and eye method in the future (once I can model again!).

That '5' looks great Tom, I think you've got this about right IMHO. Re. the coal load. You could cut a piece of lead sheet to size mount it in the tender and pile real coal on top of it - you might actually increase the traction weight this way! Keep up the outstanding work!

Nope you're not the only one this happens too! At least you've actually managed to get your layout to an very presentable standard - my layout has been 'in progress' for years but never actually seems to find the time to be built. Anyway I will temporarily be without the day job for a couple of months soon so I hope to get things started properly then!

I would say that is an awesome piece of modelling, but I never was one to understate things! I think everything surrounding the Grantham project is simply amazing (but being a fan of 1930's LNER, I would say that!!!). Looking forward to the next installment.