TheSignalEngineer

1 hour ago, Wolf27 said:

Announce the announcement or be quiet.

Or leak some fake news story to Mr Potato Head and then put out the proper announcement tomorrow.

A bit of a doodle on Google Earth this morning.

I plotted assumed sight lines from the camera to the loading gauge and signal taking into account the other things in view. 

The yellow lines are the approximate field of view from here the other lines crossed. 

I've added the position of the couple on the wall and the loco.

Not exactly scientific photo forensics but it gave me a camera position near the Driftwood Cafe. The Frith picture link I posted yesterday shows the building that became the cafe so is on roughly the same line but further back.

This would appear to show that the camping coaches if present would be blocked out by the buildings to the west of the crossing.

25 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

thats very helpful.  There is also the camping coach evidence. This was situated on the goods yard siding close to the crossing and I believe would have been visible (ie not hidden behind the train). The camp coach was there during the "summer" only from 1934 and was withdrawn on the outbreak of war. I don't know how summer was defined in camping coach terms, but i guess its not July or August. So maybe a warm day earlier in the season.

I think the camping coaches were probably hidden by the building. The loading gauge would be a few yards from the trap point in the siding.

This is the building in the original photo from close in. It shows the relationship of the buildig, track, loading gauge and signal more clearly.

https://www.francisfrith.com/blue-anchor/blue-anchor-entrance-to-foreshore-c1939_b124009

This one dated c1939 is from a bit further along the promenade than the original photo. The building on the left is now the Driftwood Cafe. Next is The Retreat, long gone but I believe in the 1930s it was a tea room. If you look carefully you can see the level crossing sign and the tearoom sign of the original post. 

 https://www.francisfrith.com/blue-anchor/blue-anchor-entrance-to-foreshore-c1939_b124009

Moving on to c1955, you can still see the loading gauge but the pillbox is present. 

https://www.francisfrith.com/blue-anchor/blue-anchor-the-bay-c1955_b124022

I'm still going with c1939.

2 hours ago, david.hill64 said:

That same year a trip to Birmingham brought me my first Brush type 2 (31) on a Norwich to Birmingham service

Used to hang around for that when I was working in the Saltley area. I usually came through on its way back to Norwich when I was waiting for a train into New Street.

22 hours ago, PhilH said:

a trip on the train to London to trainspot...nb on our own, no adults, aged barely 12.

At 12 we went travelling around London, Manchester and Liverpool shed bunking. First bus into Birmingham on Sunday morning and back in time for the last bus home at 10.30pm.

The following year the school cadet force camp was right next to Pirbright Junction. No neef for the bugler to wake you in the morning. One of the last LSWR 700 Class in service used to pull up about 50 yards from our tent with a trip consisting mainly of coal empties. I spent one night as part of the camp guard, patrolling the railway side boundary from 11pm when a big liner had docked at Southampton. Then on the last evening, it was a Friday in the August holiday, 60 steam hauled trains between the evening meal and lights out. Plenty of cops from Southern sheds. It seemed that anything able to boil water was pressed into service.

Looking at the coaches and counting the doors, are the third and fourth 70' Toplight Thirds?

Spotted that building on another photo. Will try to find it again. It is beach side of the railway possiby just inside the gate.

The loading gauge doesn't help with dating as it is there on a picture said to be c1955. 

20 hours ago, Cwmtwrch said:

http://www.britishrailholidays.co.uk/ suggests the train should be going behind the pale building, not in front of it.

Different building. If you look closely at the original picture the building is behind the loading gauge in the siding

And my first DubDee in the flesh, or should it be metal, was a bit af a shock. 

A school trip to London I think it was, before the M1 was built. We went via Banbury and somewhere ended up parallel to a railway. Possibly the GC near Aylesbury as we ran alongside 90033 of Woodford Halse on an Up coal train for a short time. Never seen one of those before.

The next one I saw got stuck in Snow Hill Tunnel with a load of 40 coke hoppers from South Wales to Bilston. Had to be rescued by the station pilot. 

14 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Sigh; it was all so long ago now. 🤔

Living about 3 miles from New Street and Snow Hill we had a local circuit which was quite varied. Family connections at Stafford and Bromsgrove, outings to Worcester, Leamington, Stratford upon Avon were all regular . 

Early realisations of different things started around 1953 when we travelled to Swanage via the S&D and later in the week using a local to Corfe Castle which still had old stock in some variation of Southern green. Not sure which shade, Green was Green in those days. 

Next was a birthday trip with my grandparents to London Zoo, around 1955-56. What were those funny trains that ran on 4 rails south of Watford Junction? And their companions about half as high as proper trains? And those points at Euston which flew across with a bang and a hiss?

There's a lot of compression on the original photo. I will have a look on Google Earth tomorrow to decide where it was likely taken from.

23 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said:

Polished chrome, not as white??

Depends upon the light, film type and exposure and how good the darkroom technique is. On monochrome I could get it to look anything from white to dark grey depending on the angle of the original and what it was reflecting.

This is the back of a Vauxhall Standard 12-Four from the 1938 brochure.

21 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said:

The car in front of the locomotive seems to be equipped with a white panel on its rear (centre of the spare wheel?). Might this white panel releate to driving in the wartime blackout?

Centre of the spare wheel cover. See 2nd car from right on here

https://www.francisfrith.com/blue-anchor/blue-anchor-sands-c1939_b124004

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

I know nothing about GWR locos apart from the fact that they all look the same - but If that's a 4575 they also first appeared in 1927 .... which proves nothing at all. Was there, though, an allocated in this area ( presumably Taunton ) throughout the period in question or might there have been times of absence ?

I don't know about gaps but three went there from new. Websites don't give much information.

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

And if you blow it up that is almost certainly G W R on the tank sides and is probably green which would date it as Post War.

I thought at first it was 'GWR' but when I saw it on a big screen on looked more like a water stain directly below the tank vent in the 'G' position. Could it be in Shirtbutton livery? That would tie in with the lack of the Pillbox which I understand was built in 1940.

Three letters on car reg plates started to come in c1932. 

53 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I think the train's 3rd and 4th coaches are in 1945-7 lined brown austerity livery,

Looking at a large version there are two distinct colours on the sides of the third coach. 

53 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

And the number of cars about seems counter-intuitive to the idea that petrol rationing was in force, which is was for some time after the war had finished.

When the petrol ration was restored in 1945 it was only for enough to do about 90 miles per month. It was stopped again for a short while after a dock strike (1947 -or 48?) and raised to about 180 miles per month until being abolished in 1950.

All things considered I would say that it is Summer 1939, the latest date it could have been. It may even have been the Bank Holiday, 7th August 1939, when most people had accepted war was inevitable and people were trying to make the most of their last few days of normality.

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

A wee bit later - some time in the thirties they started to appear on Southern electric stock and on loco-hauled when Mr.Bullied came along.

Maunsell stock had duckets except on narrow bodied stock IIRC. The first SR stock picture that shows a periscope I can find in the Mike King book was the Bulleid 59ft all door sets.

10 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

I believe that when a universal  OAP was introduced in 1908 at age 70, few people actually lived long enough to ever receive it.

First off the blocks was probably Bismarck's scheme in 1889. That fixed the age as 70, about twice the life expectancy of an ordinary German male at the time. Later it was reduced to 65. Most early schemes used either 65 or 70.

8 hours ago, Nick C said:

I quite like this alternative set of suggestions from Count Binface...

 

We already had a Bin Line down there about 1988 when I put back the connection to F Sidings at Willesden for use during the North Circular Widening. The contractors had to relocate a Victorian rubbish tip to a clay pit in Bedfordshire. The Freightliner flats and open containers used were locally referred to as "The BinLiner"

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The red electrification warning flashes appeared at around the same time, somewhat ironically on the Southern Region where one imagined staff being fried by the third rail while looking upwards for the non-existent OLE...

SR locos started to get them when some yards were provided with 750V overhead wires. At least 7 Bulleid pacifics were reported with them in mid 1960, as was an H class tank.

I think the instruction on removal of periscopes was effective from the end of 1963 when the reduced clearances to the wires were approved for use south of Rugby and in the Birmingham area. This was also the reason for banning certain classes of steam loco south of Crewe

29 minutes ago, RailWest said:

Would not 7A just become a hand-point as well?

Three LB&SC examples I've found from the early C20 have a worked point end on the side of a double slip coming in from the main line.

I've found nine examples across four railways that would tie in with what I drew but there are others using hand points for the incoming points.

Finding one with a facing entry like the OP is quite rare even at terminal stations. The only one I can think of so far on double track was the entrance to the run round and carriage sidings at Ilfracombe, where all switches on the double slip were box worked.

In my opinion this would be the preferable method for a facing entry as it ensures that the incoming train doesn't need to stop and observe the lie of the points when making a move from the Down Home to the Run Round or Siding. 

1 hour ago, Nick C said:

That only works if the two pairs of switches at each end of the slip are separately controlled though - I believe that William is using RTR pointwork so they'll be on a single tiebar?

One of the compromises in modelling. Unless you build it yourself it's impossible to replicate reality, and with the materials available get it to work reliably.

In later years it would be probable that 7B would become 3C leaving 7A as a single end.

I've not forgotten about you, just doing a bit of revision on Saxby and LB&SC matters.

Regarding the double slip in the siding I found two sketches on John Hinson's signalbox.org website albeit trailing onto the running line.

They were at Horsham Junction c1900 and Leatherhead in 1927.

Re-orientated and converted to your numbering they would look like this:-

3 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

@TheSignalEngineer are you able to explain the flip-flop back-to-back FPL?

One stands normally in, the other normally out. It helps to simplify the interlocking in some instances as pulling the signal lever requires the FPL lever in the correct position thus eliminating signal to signal locking on conflicting head-on routes over the same piece of track

10 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

my brain is jelly thinking about it!

I can well understand that given the quirks in Saxby's signalling installations. Some are difficult for me to understand and I spent my whole career in the industry