Jon Fitness' average 7mm signals workbench.

[Jon Fitness]

54 minutes ago, kitpw said:

Very nice they are.....and timely - I have several on my 'to do' list.  Question - whose servos? they're tiny!  Second, non-signal, question - the lattice girder bridge in the background:  is it generic or based on a particular example? 

Kit PW

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbykingtm-hk-5330-ultra-micro-digital-servo-0-17kg-0-04sec-1-9g.html

These ones. A little delicate but nice and small. They are not appreciative of poor connections as I have found out to my cost!

The bridge girders are resin ones from Skytrex. They've been outside in all weathers for about 2 years now and have proved both stable and robust

 

JF

Edited May 30, 2022 by Jon Fitness

[Steve Hewitt]

Jon,

Those ground discs are superb   😀

Steve.

[Jon Fitness]

On 31/05/2022 at 00:04, Steve Hewitt said:

Jon,

Those ground discs are superb   😀

Steve.

Cheers Steve. Very pleased how the etched LMS disc kit came out. Bit fiddly but definitely designed to work!

JF

[Jon Fitness]

Afternoon All!

Here are 3 recently completed LMS/BR(M) bracket signals awaiting the weathering brush...

All are from my own etches with the addition of lamp cases from Modelu and some lovely laser cut planks from a good friend.

All are servo operated and LED lit. The power from the LEDs is taken from the servo feeds so they are effectively "self contained.

More soon.

JF

 

[The Stationmaster]

Brilliant stuff Jon - JLTRT     (Even if they are from the wrong railway 😇 )

[Dmudriver]

Just superb, Jon.

 

 

od

[Robin Gristwood]

Great looking signal Jon.

Can you please say which servos have you used for these?

I cant quite see the HobbyKing code on the photo.

 

Robin

[Jon Fitness]

Sorry about the music but it's marginally better than switches and servos clicking and buzzing with a background of my neighbours building machinery noises!

[Jon Fitness]

On 17/06/2022 at 10:29, Robin Gristwood said:

Great looking signal Jon.

Can you please say which servos have you used for these?

I cant quite see the HobbyKing code on the photo.

 

Robin

Hi Robin. The larger ones are HK15178 and I also use some tiny ones. 9225000002.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbykingtm-hk15178-analog-servo-1-4kg-0-09sec-10g.html?queryID=f68d853a49e59f16e0987a58a3898d7c&objectID=38567&indexName=hbk_live_products_analytics&___store=en_us

 

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbykingtm-hk-5330-ultra-micro-digital-servo-0-17kg-0-04sec-1-9g.html

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Jon Fitness

[kitpw]

An Oscar for the 'Special Effects' modelmaker (music... 'Nominated').  The Bolton's Bits etched parts are definitely prize winning.

 

Kit PW

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blogs/blog/2502-swan-hill/

[Jon Fitness]

A bit of weathering added too. Very pleased with how the staging planks came out...

[The Stationmaster]

I don't know so much about the weathering of the staging planks (recent renewals?) but the light weathering of the arms and spectacles is brilliantly observed and perfectly executed.  You obviously spent far too much of your working life looking at signal arms 😇

[Jon Fitness]

10 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I don't know so much about the weathering of the staging planks (recent renewals?) but the light weathering of the arms and spectacles is brilliantly observed and perfectly executed.  You obviously spent far too much of your working life looking at signal arms 😇

To be honest I wish I'd looked more and taken more photos😐

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, Jon Fitness said:

To be honest I wish I'd looked more and taken more photos😐

I do have a few hundred photos although mainly b&w and they do include signals with arms which go the wrong way.  If there is ever anything specific you need in terms of a signal arrangement (i.e. not necessarily of a place) drop me a pm and I'll see what I can find.

[Jon Fitness]

On 22/06/2022 at 12:00, The Stationmaster said:

I do have a few hundred photos although mainly b&w and they do include signals with arms which go the wrong way.  If there is ever anything specific you need in terms of a signal arrangement (i.e. not necessarily of a place) drop me a pm and I'll see what I can find.

You may be able to help me with something Mike. Do you have any detailed close ups of the BR(W) ground signal assemblies or even better, drawings? Anything appreciated.

Cheers

JF

[Steve Hewitt]

Jon,

 

I hope these might be helpful.

A few Holiday Snaps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve.

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, Jon Fitness said:

You may be able to help me with something Mike. Do you have any detailed close ups of the BR(W) ground signal assemblies or even better, drawings? Anything appreciated.

Cheers

JF

The first question is going to be fior what period - or more accurately at what date the signal was installed.  The reason being the styke and method of construction changed over the years.

 

The pre Great War original independent ground signal - which had a small cast semaphore 'arm' - began to have a have an enamelled  disc 'face' added from just before the Great War,   Examples survived, in ever decreasing numbers, well into the 1970s. I don't have any photos of my own of one of these but I have a drawing in a book published in the 1920s. These came in both one arm and two arm versions but I've never seen a picture of a two arm example

 

Between the wars there seem to have been at least two styles introduced the earliest of which had inbuilt detection by means of a plunger. this design was supoerseded by a lower version which used normal separate detection and ths latter was the first (I think) GWR ground disc produced in multiple arm four - yup yo a maximum of four a discs (although they were rare).  These were very common being installed new well into the 1940s - if not later - and Reading held stocks of spares, including and ever reducing number of the main castings -right up to being go down to one at the time the works was closed (It was a four disc version).  Basically the GWR moved towards using discs with more than one or two arms when the secind inter-war design was introduc ed but it reverted post war to normallu y using signle arm discs in new interlockings etc unless there was a very good reason for  more than one arm.   Hence the final design was really for one arm installation. 

 

In the very late 1940s/very early '50s the final Reading design appeared using a tubular metal 'post' on  its own design of bases - as illustrated above in Steve's photos *except the last one). These used the flat 'face' which had appeared in the final pre-war design and the faces were made of aluminium bolted t a cast backplate of the same diameter.  This style seems to have come almost invariably as asingle arm disc but I think there might have been a two arm version.  

 

The GWR only used red on white disc faces, yellow arm discs were introduced to the WR (as yellow on white background) from Januatu 1950 but only appeared in new work or where locking alterations took place.  The disc colour was later (c.1960?) changed to yellow on black.

 

The use of w either red or white lights in ground disc signals standing at danger first emerged in the 1890s because GW frames of that tme could not take conditional locking - thus independent ground signals could only read to one route.  The adoption of wholly red lights for a signal standing at danger didn't happen until the very final design of Western ground signal,  they never came ina white light version and I never saw any installed in that sort of situation.

 

Si o what all that blather boils down to is that time of signal being provided and whatever practice was at that time willl affect what you are going to model - particularly in 7mm scale.

 

These are pictures of the first inter-war period design complete with the plunger detector arrangement - ignore the added repeater contact box - electric repeating of mechanical ground signals seems to have been from a much plater time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the bare bones of the original design of independent disc but without a plunger detector or disc face -

 

 

 

 

This is the two arm version of the later inter-war period design -

 

 

 

 

 

This might help assess the height of it?

 

 

 

I'll look through the b&w images and see what else I can find for you.  in the meanwhile I hope this has helped a bit.

 

 

 

 

[Jon Fitness]

8 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The first question is going to be fior what period - or more accurately at what date the signal was installed.  The reason being the styke and method of construction changed over the years.

 

The pre Great War original independent ground signal - which had a small cast semaphore 'arm' - began to have a have an enamelled  disc 'face' added from just before the Great War,   Examples survived, in ever decreasing numbers, well into the 1970s. I don't have any photos of my own of one of these but I have a drawing in a book published in the 1920s. These came in both one arm and two arm versions but I've never seen a picture of a two arm example

 

Between the wars there seem to have been at least two styles introduced the earliest of which had inbuilt detection by means of a plunger. this design was supoerseded by a lower version which used normal separate detection and ths latter was the first (I think) GWR ground disc produced in multiple arm four - yup yo a maximum of four a discs (although they were rare).  These were very common being installed new well into the 1940s - if not later - and Reading held stocks of spares, including and ever reducing number of the main castings -right up to being go down to one at the time the works was closed (It was a four disc version).  Basically the GWR moved towards using discs with more than one or two arms when the secind inter-war design was introduc ed but it reverted post war to normallu y using signle arm discs in new interlockings etc unless there was a very good reason for  more than one arm.   Hence the final design was really for one arm installation. 

 

In the very late 1940s/very early '50s the final Reading design appeared using a tubular metal 'post' on  its own design of bases - as illustrated above in Steve's photos *except the last one). These used the flat 'face' which had appeared in the final pre-war design and the faces were made of aluminium bolted t a cast backplate of the same diameter.  This style seems to have come almost invariably as asingle arm disc but I think there might have been a two arm version.  

 

The GWR only used red on white disc faces, yellow arm discs were introduced to the WR (as yellow on white background) from Januatu 1950 but only appeared in new work or where locking alterations took place.  The disc colour was later (c.1960?) changed to yellow on black.

 

The use of w either red or white lights in ground disc signals standing at danger first emerged in the 1890s because GW frames of that tme could not take conditional locking - thus independent ground signals could only read to one route.  The adoption of wholly red lights for a signal standing at danger didn't happen until the very final design of Western ground signal,  they never came ina white light version and I never saw any installed in that sort of situation.

 

Si o what all that blather boils down to is that time of signal being provided and whatever practice was at that time willl affect what you are going to model - particularly in 7mm scale.

 

These are pictures of the first inter-war period design complete with the plunger detector arrangement - ignore the added repeater contact box - electric repeating of mechanical ground signals seems to have been from a much plater time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the bare bones of the original design of independent disc but without a plunger detector or disc face -

 

 

 

 

This is the two arm version of the later inter-war period design -

 

 

 

 

 

This might help assess the height of it?

 

 

 

I'll look through the b&w images and see what else I can find for you.  in the meanwhile I hope this has helped a bit.

 

 

 

 

Mike, these photos are superb and will definitely be of help when I'm building these early pattern ground signals. Fortunately, theses earlier pattern ones are available as castings, some good, some not so good but available anyway. I really need to produce a BRW tubular style one, in a fashion that can be slid over some 2.5mm tube and adjusted to the required height. Also there is the base with the 4 tapered support plates too.

Many thanks for these pictures, they will be squirreled away for future reference.👍

JF

[Jon Fitness]

21 hours ago, Steve Hewitt said:

Jon,

 

I hope these might be helpful.

A few Holiday Snaps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve.

Steve. These are exactly what I'm after! Many thanks for these. I'm definitely going to produce a kit of parts for one of these in a way that can be assembled to whatever is required for any application. I would love a lost wax set that would slide down onto 2.5mm tube and include the base unit with its distinctive triangular support plates. I know they were occasionally used on a taller post as an elevated version so castings would allow that to be built.

Thanks again for these mate

Cheeers

JF

[The Stationmaster]

I suppose now I'm going to have to try to find my original WR disc face to measure it!🤪

[Simond]

Does anyone have any drawings of the castings on the tubular post version?  
 

or is there an accessible one at Didcot?

 

cheers

Simon

[Jon Fitness]

So...the results so far on an etched version of the BRW ground signal. Not entirely happy with it yet and I'm sure it would be better as 3d printed or even cast brass fittings to slide onto the small post..

 

With a modelu lamp case glued on the side of it with an LED inside it's now lit and servo driven. The little post cap was turned up on the lathe. 

More soon

JF

[Jon Fitness]

Lots of lovely shiny etches arrived (which had the WR ground signal on it) including both 12" and 14" LMS parallel lattice posts and brackets. They enabled me to build these two beasties...

 

 

The rather fuzzy fitting here is a 3d printed doll shoe obtained from Les Green via shapeways. They really finish off the underneath of the dolls..

https://www.shapeways.com/product/LWBD86SEE/7mm-lms-signal-doll-shoes?optionId=274287968&li=shops

 

 

These signals are both servo operated and LED lit and entirely from my own etches. Very happy with how these turned out.

Now here's something in the next post that may interest the GWR fans out there.....

Edited October 6, 2022 by Jon Fitness

[Jon Fitness]

A couple of things just off the bench here too...

This is a tail lamp sighting mirror based on the one at Dainton.. It's to be mounted on the edge of a retaining wall on Steve Fays layout.

 

 

Next is a nice little GW stop and distant with a nice little 3d printed WR battery box from John Chivers. The distant weightbar has an operating electrical switch box. Servos but no lights on this one...

 

 

And within a large batch of etches are these GWR oddities.  The early pattern main arms are in 4 and 5ft versions with the 5ft one showing the larger spectacle plate.

 

 

More soon!

JF

[Stephen Freeman]

On 06/10/2022 at 20:54, Jon Fitness said:

Lots of lovely shiny etches arrived (which had the WR ground signal on it) including both 12" and 14" LMS parallel lattice posts and brackets. They enabled me to build these two beasties...

 

 

The rather fuzzy fitting here is a 3d printed doll shoe obtained from Les Green via shapeways. They really finish off the underneath of the dolls..

https://www.shapeways.com/product/LWBD86SEE/7mm-lms-signal-doll-shoes?optionId=274287968&li=shops

 

 

These signals are both servo operated and LED lit and entirely from my own etches. Very happy with how these turned out.

Now here's something in the next post that may interest the GWR fans out there.....

Probably the best 7mm scale UQ arms to date. A couple of interesting observations, One of our sons music teachers has a full sized one I was looking at the other day. The red seemed to be the same shade overall but the part usual seen as black had been painted white, I couldn't see the back of the arm so don't have details for that, the operating arm is missing. The other thing is the spectacle retaining rubber (I am assuming that is the material) wasn't red just unpainted black. Of course there were/are lots of variations, just nice to see that detail appearing fo the first time. I'll see I can talk to her next time and get a photo.