TMC announce NER G5 0-4-4T

[D9001]

On 26/04/2022 at 14:31, Steamport Southport said:

 

I mean the magazine rather than the model.

 

That's where Bachmann tend to show their updates now.

 

 

Jason

 

Phut! 

 

[AGR Model Store]

On 26/04/2022 at 20:51, peterfgf said:

That seems much more likely.  I asked them about a year ago when the G5s could be expected and was told Q3 2022.  I'm pleased it has only slipped one quarter, but lets see.

Peterfgf

Alex confirmed April 2023, now it’s down to Bachmann 

Edited May 6, 2022 by AGR Model Store

[Compound2632]

On 06/05/2022 at 07:45, AGR Model Store said:

Alex confirmed April 2023, now it’s down to Bachmann 

 

Help! I haven't built the coaches to go with my 1532 yet and now the pressure is on to finish those D&S NER 6-wheelers started in 1988...

[it's-er]

On 08/05/2022 at 19:50, Compound2632 said:

 

Help! I haven't built the coaches to go with my 1532 yet and now the pressure is on to finish those D&S NER 6-wheelers started in 1988...

But did the G5's ever run with 6 wheeled coaches?  Ever since Hattons announced their 6 wheel coaches, I have been looking for photographs of G5s pulling 6 wheel coaches, and haven't found any.  

 

As far as I have can see G5s, from their earliest incarnation as NER class O and then as LNER G5, are pulling bogied coaches.  I'd be delighted if someone can point to photographs where they are pulling 6 wheel coaches.

 

John S

[Compound2632]

33 minutes ago, it's-er said:

But did the G5's ever run with 6 wheeled coaches?  Ever since Hattons announced their 6 wheel coaches, I have been looking for photographs of G5s pulling 6 wheel coaches, and haven't found any.  

 

As far as I have can see G5s, from their earliest incarnation as NER class O and then as LNER G5, are pulling bogied coaches.  I'd be delighted if someone can point to photographs where they are pulling 6 wheel coaches.

 

John S

 

I'll be wanting a BTP instead, then. I dug through my Hawes Junction photos - there's a splendid one, c. 1905, a Johnson Belpaire at the head of an up Scotch Express, with NER 6-wheelers in the Hawes platform, but there's another one of a BTP - not, though, I'm sure, by the same photographer so probably not the same day! 

 

Anyone know if and when Os displaced BTPs? The other photo I have in mind on the Hawes line is an A, but I think that's on bogies.

 

But the NER had thousands of 6-wheelers, so there must have been something pulling them!

 

The forthcoming Hattons 6-wheelers have many points of resemblance to NER 6-wheelers - more than they do to many others.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Compound2632

[D9020 Nimbus]

Ken Hoole's North Eastern Branch Line Termini will have the details for those lines it covers. ISTR the Os replaced BTPs in the mid-1920s as the BTPs were withdrawn or converted to J77 0-6-0Ts. However, on many branches the BTPs pulled (bogie) NER auto-trailers, the combination being known as a "steam autocar". The Os replaced them in this role.

 

My copy of the book isn't to accessible to me ATM, but I can't remember any mention of 6-wheel stock being used. I'm wondering if the NER used them, possibly, on miners trains — as I believe the GWR did with 4-wheel stock in South Wales into the 1940s.

[Compound2632]

30 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

My copy of the book isn't to accessible to me ATM, but I can't remember any mention of 6-wheel stock being used. I'm wondering if the NER used them, possibly, on miners trains — as I believe the GWR did with 4-wheel stock in South Wales into the 1940s.

 

The NER's vast fleet of 6-wheel carriages will have been the normal service stock on many services prior to the introduction of bogie carriages. North Eastern Record Vol. 2 gives a total of 1,400 32 ft 6-wheelers built 1881-1895, and over 1,000 bogie clerestory carriages built 1895-1906. Obviously those 1,400 6-wheelers didn't vanish overnight; they're also far too numerous to all have been consigned to miners' trains; the bogie carriages will have been replacements of carriages dating from before the 32 ft 6-wheelers, mostly. If one allows a carriage service lifetime of around 25 years, only the very oldest of the 32 ft 6-wheelers will have been due for replacement by the time the last of the clerestory bogie carriages entered service. 

 

The Class O engines first appeared in 1894, before the first bogie carriages appeared. The logical conclusion must be that they will initially have worked train of 6-wheelers! 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Compound2632

[Paul Cram]

On the Hawes branch the BTPs were replaced by class A and then they were replaced by G5s in the thirties. All the six wheelers on the NER had gone by  then

[Compound2632]

Just now, Paul Cram said:

On the Hawes branch the BTPs were replaced by class A and then they were replaced by G5s in the thirties. All the six wheelers on the NER had gone by  then

 

Thanks; that ties in with the photos I have seen. I'm not interested in the 30s!

[thetalkinlens]

Nineteen G5's were converted to push-pull by the LNER from 1937 and BR converted two more (reference NERA Express issue 119). Until then I don't believe they did any push pull / autocar type work.

 

I have a book somewhere with a photo of an O at Scarborough in NER days, which I'm fairly sure is hooked up to six wheelers. When I find it, I'll post some more info.

[thetalkinlens]

I've found the photo I was thinking of on a public Facebook group. No.468 at Scarborough with a Pickering bound train.

 

No.468 was released for service in June 1901, so that should at least give turn of the century for six wheelers behind O's.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by thetalkinlens

[it's-er]

Many thanks for the responses to my note of 2 June as to whether NER class O/LNER G5s pulled 6 wheel coaches.

 

These rather confirm what I suspected, which is that G5s generally ran with clerestory, other NER bogied coaches, and Gresley stock.  Thank you, thetalkinlens for your photograph above from the very early 1900s: very interesting, and what a superb finish on the locomotive!  But it confirms my suspicion that you have to go back a very long way to find an NER class O (and no G5 so far!) pulling 6 wheel coaches.

 

The latest photograph I could find of NER 6 wheel coaches was taken around 1907 up Weardale - I think it was at Stanhope or Wolsingham. 

 

Compound2632 - on your note of 2 June, no, you need several of TMC/Bachmann's G5 at least!

 

John Storey

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, it's-er said:

Compound2632 - on your note of 2 June, no, you need several of TMC/Bachmann's G5 at least!

 

One will be enough - hard to justify for north Birmingham c. 1902!

[DougN]

I have a hankering for a G5 like every one else. From what I have read, almost all of the 6 wheel coaches were gone before grouping. The NER had a massive push late 1890's  to 1910 to remove them. This is why so many of the clerestories and bow roofed stock lasted through grouping. My understanding is the life span of all the timber framed coaches was about 30 years. The 6 wheelers were removed as they didnt ride very well either. 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, DougN said:

From what I have read, almost all of the 6 wheel coaches were gone before grouping. The NER had a massive push late 1890's  to 1910 to remove them. 

 

See my post above. If one takes the Midland's 21.5 years in capital stock as a guide, then one would expect the 1,400 32 ft 6-wheelers built 1881-1895 to be renewed in the period 1903-1917. As I argued above, the 1,000 or so clerestory bogie carriages built 1895-1906 must therefore have been renewals of of earlier carriages, built 1873-1884. 

 

When it comes to photographic evidence, one has to consider sample bias. A photographer of the time, with his expensive glass plates, was going to prefer to photograph the latest, smartest trains, not boring everyday trains of 6-wheelers. 

 

The piece of photographic evidence I cited is a case in point: the six-wheelers at Hawes Junction c. 1905 were just incidentally in the background of a photograph of a Belpaire on a Scotch Express.

 

 

[Worsdell forever]

I think the last remaining 6 wheelers were used as strengtheners, there's a shot at Crossgates with a 'standard' set of clerestories with a 6 wheel third behind the class O. Plenty of photos of 6 wheelers behind class A, BTP and 4-4-0s in earlier times. Also remember in their earlier days class O were used on the heavier, longer distance 'stopping' trains with A and BTP handling the bucolic branches.

[john new]

I reminded by that of the late Brian Jackson explaining how he discovered the only known photo of the pagoda shelter at Came Down Halt near Dorchester. He was at a farm sale, in the background of a photo of one of the farm’s past pedigree bulls he spotted that the station was just visible above the animal. Of little relevance as an agricultural image, highly prized as a railway history artefact, 

[tmc]

Good news.........The G5 livery samples have started to arrive and all should be here by the end of the month. The detailed checking process is underway and we will post photographs here over the next few weeks of each sample.

[Compound2632]

On 09/06/2022 at 09:52, Worsdell forever said:

I think the last remaining 6 wheelers were used as strengtheners, there's a shot at Crossgates with a 'standard' set of clerestories with a 6 wheel third behind the class O. 

 

What date? If I may ask.

[Paul Cram]

On 09/06/2022 at 09:52, Worsdell forever said:

I think the last remaining 6 wheelers were used as strengtheners, there's a shot at Crossgates with a 'standard' set of clerestories with a 6 wheel third behind the class O. Plenty of photos of 6 wheelers behind class A, BTP and 4-4-0s in earlier times. Also remember in their earlier days class O were used on the heavier, longer distance 'stopping' trains with A and BTP handling the bucolic branches.

All the NER 6 wheel carriages had gone by the end of 1930. Source  LNER Supplement to carriage stock book 1919. Copy in my possession.

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, Paul Cram said:

All the NER 6 wheel carriages had gone by the end of 1930. Source  LNER Supplement to carriage stock book 1919. Copy in my possession.

 

With build dates of 1881-1895 for the 32 ft carriages, that's not surprising. One would expect them to be due for renewal around 1906-1920 (after the building of the clerestory carriages) with some lingering on in duplicate stock.

[Worsdell forever]

On 18/06/2022 at 16:17, Compound2632 said:

 

What date? If I may ask.

 

Not sure, only that it is post 1905 when widened to 4 tracks and the new station was built.

[tmc]

Here are the first 2 of our G5 liveried samples. We will start with 35-254Z loco number 67263. The G5’s are a complex loco with many detail variations, and in the early post war years a small number of non push pull fitted locos had their Westinghouse brakes removed. These engines therefore had neither Westinghouse equipment or Push Pull equipment. 67263 was one such loco and it received this modification whilst shedded at Durham. One photograph of it shows it at Durham on station pilot duty. It was one of the locos which survived into 1958 being withdrawn from Hull Botanic gardens in October 1958. 

 

https://tmc-direct.co.uk/35-254Z

 

 

 

[tmc]

Next to break cover is 35-255Z loco number 67342. Of all the class this had to be one of our selection for no better reason than the photo that exists of it on Goathland bank, so we know for sure this one came past the current TMC premises. What is more it isn’t on a branch passenger train but piloting a heavy holiday express. Unlike the loco above it kept the Westinghouse brake equipment and it also received a hopper bunker. This loco survived until December 1958 when it was withdrawn from Malton shed.

 

https://tmc-direct.co.uk/35-255Z

 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by tmc

[Johan DC]

Looking very good!! 👏