J72's become J65's

[Baby Deltic]

After the excitement of Railex and the opportunity to get the required bits from the Alan Gibson stand, myself and L49 decided to take scalpels to two J72's that I bought second hand some time ago. The result was the transformation of both loco's to J65's.

 

The J65 nearest the camera will be a dual braked example, and requires the fitment of air pipes on the buffer beam. The other J65 will be air brake only.

 

The air braked example. Basically, the dome, chimney, safety valves, whistle and tank vents have been removed and the detail filed flat. The chimney has been replaced with a taller stove pipe. The dome has to be moved forward aswell. There is obviously a gaping hole left by the old dome. This was covered by wrapping and cementing a very thin band of plasticard around the boiler, and adding banding to hide it. The hole underneath will be filled before painting, to add rigidity. The new safety valve is then fitted, and the lever trimmed back flush with the cab front. The splashers have been cut away behind the sand boxes, and the void filled with strips of plasticard. The last fitments are the 'donkey' pump and the toolbox on the tank on the fireman's side. The pipework to the donkey pumps still needs to be added.

 

The dual braked example. Somebody accidentally cut off the sand boxes either side of the smoke box, then after looking at a photo of a J65 realised the error. Plasticard sandboxes were quickly re-added. These will be cleaned and trimmed once the solvent has gone off.

 

Altogether an easy and enjoyable evening's work for myself and Charlie.

[S.A.C Martin]

That looks like a lovely piece of work there - I didn't realise the J65s were so close to the J72s in that way. Lovely modifications, I may have to have a go myself one day

[PhilM]

Coming on nicely! Looking forwrad to further progress. I bought a J72 body with this in mind some time ago and never got round to it. Any chance of posting a parts list so I know exactly what to order? Thanks

[Baby Deltic]

You need some Alan Gibson cast parts, namely a new funnel, dome, safety valve and donkey pump. Unfortunately I left the packaging over at L49's place so I can't tell you the definitive types at the moment. L49 chose the parts so I will ask him for details.

[mullie]

This is my version http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51185-pott-row-or-somewhere-in-east-anglia/page__st__50#entry791948

 

I am currently converting the split chassis to DCC so hopefully it will become a useful member of the fleet soon? I also remodelled the cab

[N15class]

They are fine conversions. I look forward to seeing them finished.

[Paul Cram]

That looks like a lovely piece of work there - I didn't realise the J65s were so close to the J72s in that way. Lovely modifications, I may have to have a go myself one day

 

They aren't. J72 wheelbase 6'8"+7'0", J65 6'4"+7'0". Length over buffers J72 28' 9 3/4", J65 27'2". Boiler length J72 10'0", J65 9'1". Fire box length J72 4'4", J65 4'6". basically you need to lose 3mm out of the centre of the boiler and some additional length from elsewhere. I don't have drawings so I can't say where exactly. Informtaoin from RCTS Locos of LNER 8A amd 8B.

[mullie]

This is my version http://www.rmweb.co...._50#entry791948

 

I am currently converting the split chassis to DCC so hopefully it will become a useful member of the fleet soon? I also remodelled the cab

 

I lost some length by shortening the distance from the front of the smoke box to the buffer beam and then taking a few mm off the front of the chassis but as you point out every thing is a compromise

[Bar Side]

Great thread & models - have a donor J72 body in the loft for the same purpose & am quite happy with the slight compromises needed. Must get on with this now! Keep the updates coming

[Katier]

They aren't. J72 wheelbase 6'8"+7'0", J65 6'4"+7'0". Length over buffers J72 28' 9 3/4", J65 27'2". Boiler length J72 10'0", J65 9'1". Fire box length J72 4'4", J65 4'6". basically you need to lose 3mm out of the centre of the boiler and some additional length from elsewhere. I don't have drawings so I can't say where exactly. Informtaoin from RCTS Locos of LNER 8A amd 8B.

 

lner.org backs that up. Would seem 4mm out of the boiler would do the job ( and a similar out of the front of the chassis) would do the job. 3mm is 9" so unless my maths is wrong the difference between the boilers is 11inches ( near as damnit 1 ft) so loose 4mm and you've solves a lot of the length difference.

 

Personally I'd probably replace the entire boiler with a piece of 15mm copper pipe as that would both bring the boiler to the correct diameter (1mm less than J72) AND solve the problem of the hole.

[Jan]

Nice Work. I have often wondered about doing this to a J72. Of course, as already alluded to, there are dimensional differences, but it's all about look and feel. And in 4mm, half a millimetre is an inch and a half of the real thing... so viewing distance comes into it too. I used to have a Wrenn N2, and it was fine until the Mainline version came along. I think the Wrenn version was quieter, too.. . As has been said, pop up a parts list. I've got to build a J65 for Watkin's Wharf... and it may be cheaper than going to LRM for a fold-up version.

[Paul Cram]

lner.org backs that up. Would seem 4mm out of the boiler would do the job ( and a similar out of the front of the chassis) would do the job. 3mm is 9" so unless my maths is wrong the difference between the boilers is 11inches ( near as damnit 1 ft) so loose 4mm and you've solves a lot of the length difference.

 

Personally I'd probably replace the entire boiler with a piece of 15mm copper pipe as that would both bring the boiler to the correct diameter (1mm less than J72) AND solve the problem of the hole.

 

The J65 firebox is 2 inches longer making the overall length difference 9 inches or 3mm.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Nice Work. I have often wondered about doing this to a J72. Of course, as already alluded to, there are dimensional differences, but it's all about look and feel. And in 4mm, half a millimetre is an inch and a half of the real thing... so viewing distance comes into it too. I used to have a Wrenn N2, and it was fine until the Mainline version came along. I think the Wrenn version was quieter, too.. . As has been said, pop up a parts list. I've got to build a J65 for Watkin's Wharf... and it may be cheaper than going to LRM for a fold-up version.

 

I've often wondered how well an "easy" but inaccurate RTR modification, a more accurate but "heavy" RTR mod, or one built from a kit compares in terms of result versus effort. While the latter is usually more expensive it'll probably be more accurate and not a lot more work than the "heavy" conversion.

 

I've never done any RTR mods, partly because there is nothing that provides what I want but also because the idea of cutting, filling and filing boilers, etc. is something I don't think I could do as well as soldering together an etched kit. It's pretty much the same reason that I've given up with cast w/m loco kits.

[Pebbles]

Much depends on which batch the J65 you wish to model came from. It may help if you obtain a drawing from the GER Society. There is I believe only one J65 kit currently on the market this was originally designed by Ian Rice but apparently based on a Skinley drawing!

[Jan]

I've often wondered how well an "easy" but inaccurate RTR modification, a more accurate but "heavy" RTR mod, or one built from a kit compares in terms of result versus effort. While the latter is usually more expensive it'll probably be more accurate and not a lot more work than the "heavy" conversion.

 

I've never done any RTR mods, partly because there is nothing that provides what I want but also because the idea of cutting, filling and filing boilers, etc. is something I don't think I could do as well as soldering together an etched kit. It's pretty much the same reason that I've given up with cast w/m loco kits.

 

I guess it's horses for courses. My soldering's OK, and I'm good to go with whitemetal and etched brass, but I'm quite tempted by the R-RTR (Reworked-RTR) route; just because it seems to be possible. And the bits are available. It seems the original version is 00, so buying an etched kit and not using the chassis may not be a good use of free money.

 

The only issue I have in working in 4mm is my eyesight. And bruised thumbs (I'm currently drilling out some plate wagon axleboxes for springing....)

 

Much depends on which batch the J65 you wish to model came from. It may help if you obtain a drawing from the GER Society. There is I believe only one J65 kit currently on the market this was originally designed by Ian Rice but apparently based on a Skinley drawing!

 

Really? I thought that Iain used to be a member of the GERS (as I was). I guess it all depends if he had some of their excellent drawings (Lyn Brooks covered the J69). I've seen a couple of built versions of the Iain's Ricework's J65 (now absorbed into LRM's catalogue) and they seem to meet the spec as far as I'm concerned. Fen End Pit's certainly looks the part...

[Buckjumper]

Ian's J65 was reviewed in MRJ 34 and a follow up letter in 36 from Deryek Featherstone pointed out the spectacles on the front and rear weatherboards were incorrectly positioned , probably due to the error on the Skinley drawing which confused the two roof profiles of the original GE and later LNE alteration.

[Jan]

Ian's J65 was reviewed in MRJ 34 and a follow up letter in 36 from Deryek Featherstone pointed out the spectacles on the front and rear weatherboards were incorrectly positioned , probably due to the error on the Skinley drawing which confused the two roof profiles of the original GE and later LNE alteration.

 

Ah.... yes... that rings a bell now.... thanks for the clarification, Buckjumper.

[Pebbles]

RCTS points up two versions of the J65 differing in tank height and width. Ian Rice's J65 was produced long before the GER drawings became available; the question is whether the John Gardner drawings avaliable from the GER, L11 for the early batch and L57 for the later batch are accepted as reasonably accurate or not.

[Jan]

RCTS points up two versions of the J65 differing in tank height and width. Ian Rice's J65 was produced long before the GER drawings became available; the question is whether the John Gardner drawings avaliable from the GER, L11 for the early batch and L57 for the later batch are accepted as reasonably accurate or not.

 

I hope so Pebbles, because I have some of his drawings for my intended Y4 build... Johns bio on the GERS notes:

 

"Nearly all the drawings here have been produced by Society member John Gardner. There is probably nobody better qualified to do so. John is a chartered engineer by profession. He actually served his apprenticeship at Stratford, and spent some time in the Drawing Office there during the early 1950s.

 

His drawings are based on some of the key drawings to be found in the ‘Dupen Collection’ (Great Eastern Railway Society Historic Collection Item 154). This collection comprises some 8000 pieces originating from the Stratford Works Drawing Office. They were purchased by Society member Peter Dupen in the early 1960s, and were generously donated to the Society by him some fifteen years later. Thus the drawings here are derived directly from the original Stratford Works drawings. They are not copies of the originals but are a comprehensive summary of all details available."

[Bar Side]

Got a great prototype for my Ipswich based 1950s layout:

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/ImageView.aspx?id=81d7c9bc-5971-4100-ac03-5159f3826374

 

Now, to go the whole hog & ditch the front rods or not?

[James]

I quite like RTR conversions like this - I'm currently building a J71 using a Mainline J72 body, shortening the bunker in amoung various other tasks.

 

One thing which i think would really help things with the J65 would be new smokebox doors as, to me at least, they still look distinctively North Eastern as a result.

[Jan]

Got a great prototype for my Ipswich based 1950s layout:

http://www.rail-onli...03-5159f3826374

 

Now, to go the whole hog & ditch the front rods or not?

 

Yay... they used to run as a 2-4-0 on the London & Blackwall, so that gets my vote, natch. Of course, it all depends on the size of yer crankpin!

[mullie]

Got a great prototype for my Ipswich based 1950s layout:

http://www.rail-onli...03-5159f3826374

 

Now, to go the whole hog & ditch the front rods or not?

 

This loco is seen on page 74 of North Eastern Steam Locomotive album behind 8215, one of the photos that inspired me to have ago. I'd like to have ago at this one next so would be interested to see someone else have a go.

[Baby Deltic]

Blimey! I forgot all about this thread. Those loco's are over at L49's gaff somewhere.