Interesting Traction + route suggestions - Avanti/TPE/Scotrail/Cross Country

[woodenhead]

Don't forget about the 'midges' if planning a Highland holiday - time it right so you don't need to be head to toe in netting.

[hexagon789]

53 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

are you sure you want a ride on a Vomitter? That one might be worth a swerve

Superior to anything else that does any Edinburgh-Glasgow route bar the odd use of an XC HST perhaps though seat pitch on those is tighter in Std Class than on the 220/221s.

 

37 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said:

My partner and I have discussed returning when we can for a more proper "highlands" holiday - in which we'd also do Orkney (I've been once and loved it). I'd plan on Fort William and a few other places. If our finances have changed hopefully we'd be on the caledonian sleeper from London for it, but that's not realistic at the moment.

Be warned, the sleeper is quite expensive nowadays and the newer carriages are very rattly. Others may disagree but I don't think the experience now justifies the expense.

 

39 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said:

I think Wemyss Bay is a winner - but that might just be because I love ferry rides, train rides, station architecture etc.

I don't think you'll be disappointed, even if you don't get a ferry and find Wemyss Bay too small, very easy to get a bus the short distance to Largs where there are many more amenities in the way of cafés and restaurants.

 

 

[Legend]

1 hour ago, Nova Scotian said:

Lovely feedback - thank you.

 

My partner and I have discussed returning when we can for a more proper "highlands" holiday - in which we'd also do Orkney (I've been once and loved it). I'd plan on Fort William and a few other places. If our finances have changed hopefully we'd be on the caledonian sleeper from London for it, but that's not realistic at the moment.

 

I think Wemyss Bay is a winner - but that might just be because I love ferry rides, train rides, station architecture etc. We only have one "floating" day, where we're in a hotel near Glasgow Central in the morning, but then in the evening we're staying out near the airport as our flight is early the next day. Very disappointing they cancelled the airport connector link around the time I left the UK - would have made all the difference to our timing and spending pattern in the city on that final evening.

 

Yeah , if you like ferries and trains then Wemyss Bay is definitely for you .   Hope you get a nice day for it . Scottish summertime is scheduled for  Friday June 24th this year  (just ahead of the school holidays of course )

[icn]

On 02/04/2022 at 16:04, Nova Scotian said:

Yeah I saw the 6 month thing - and I left twelve years ago! I have a Canadian passport, and even enter using that passport so my partner and kids don't have to go through a different line. I only use the UK one when travelling alone - or when they had the "passenger locater form" last year and seemed confused by my status.

Oh so one more thing: a bunch of nationalities - including Canadians - are allowed to use the UK/EEA immigration queue - and even e-passport machines (although the latter is age-restricted) - and even if you don't, no one will tell you off for using a British passport in the "everyone else" queue:

https://www.gov.uk/uk-border-control/at-border-control

 

Some of that may be new (at least UK/EEA queues must be a new thing since Brexit - I think they were called EU queues before that), but I know that a bunch of non-European countries were already allowed to use the e-passport gates at least since 2019 if not earlier.

 

Personally I'd be hesitant to use the non-UK passport at the border as it increases the risk of scrutiny and unpleasantness, but to each their own. (Some countries mandate using your local passport, I don't believe the UK is one of them - after all the UK requires you to submit your non-UK passports during UK-passport renewal so they should know you're British even if you use a different passport.) But once the UK launches the ETA scheme you might be forced to travel on the British passport regardless.

[Nova Scotian]

Just now, icn said:

Oh so one more thing: a bunch of nationalities - including Canadians - are allowed to use the UK/EEA immigration queue - and even e-passport machines (although the latter is age-restricted) - and even if you don't, no one will tell you off for using a British passport in the "everyone else" queue:

https://www.gov.uk/uk-border-control/at-border-control

 

Some of that may be new (at least UK/EEA queues must be a new thing since Brexit - I think they were called EU queues before that), but I know that a bunch of non-European countries were already allowed to use the e-passport gates at least since 2019 if not earlier.

 

Personally I'd be hesitant to use the non-UK passport at the border as it increases the risk of scrutiny and unpleasantness, but to each their own. (Some countries mandate using your local passport, I don't believe the UK is one of them - after all the UK requires you to submit your non-UK passports during UK-passport renewal so they should know you're British even if you use a different passport.) But once the UK launches the ETA scheme you might be forced to travel on the British passport regardless.

The last time I went through Heathrow I had to use the non-UK queue - but maybe I was being stupid.

 

I do not particularly like using my Canadian passport for my return to the UK - although both don't let me through the gates anymore as I've lost 4 stone since the photos were taken and my face changed shape!

My kids can get a UK passport, so I'll do that at some point, but my partner is Canadian and she's not eligible in anyway. She would love to move to the UK, but we're here because of my kids.

[peterd777]

On 09/04/2022 at 23:26, Nova Scotian said:

The last time I went through Heathrow I had to use the non-UK queue - but maybe I was being stupid.

 

I do not particularly like using my Canadian passport for my return to the UK - although both don't let me through the gates anymore as I've lost 4 stone since the photos were taken and my face changed shape!

My kids can get a UK passport, so I'll do that at some point, but my partner is Canadian and she's not eligible in anyway. She would love to move to the UK, but we're here because of my kids.

You should be alright.

Over many years my wife has never had a problem using her Australian passport in the UK residents’ queue, when accompanying me (British passport).

[hexagon789]

25 minutes ago, peterd777 said:

You should be alright.

Over many years my wife has never had a problem using her Australian passport in the UK residents’ queue, when accompanying me (British passport).

My reading of how it's split is:

 

UK/EEA queue - no visa entry requirements (so that's the EU, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, US, Canada, Australia, NZ, S. Africa and so on) 

 

Other queue - everybody else 

[Nova Scotian]

Now booked up.

 

Pendalino from Glasgow to Carlisle. Avanti West Coast.

397 Nova 2 from Carlisle to Glasgow. Transpenine express

 

Voyager from Glasgow Central to Edinburgh Waverley. Cross Country.

Azuma from Edinburgh Waverley to Glasgow Central. LNER.

 

All local daytrips will be booked on the day - I think Falkirk is out because the two things we'd see, the Kelpies and the Wheel, are frustratingly hard to get to from the station without taxi etc. Stirling, Wemyss Bay and a few others all good options.

 

Also possibly at some point my partner will need to go to Manchester for the day from Penrith or Glasgow - I may just send her as the tickets are quite expensive. 

 

Looking like I'll be over with the kids in August and car rental rates are four times what they were pre-covid. So thinking of going into Gatwick as my sister lives near Tattenham Corner. I'd then probably go to London. Then out to Reading - I grew up there and haven't been back since the redevelopment. Then on to Dorset and Devon for family. I don't have time to do Norwich, which is a shame as would love to check out the FLIRTS.

[hexagon789]

14 hours ago, Nova Scotian said:

Looking like I'll be over with the kids in August and car rental rates are four times what they were pre-covid. So thinking of going into Gatwick as my sister lives near Tattenham Corner. I'd then probably go to London. Then out to Reading - I grew up there and haven't been back since the redevelopment. Then on to Dorset and Devon for family. I don't have time to do Norwich, which is a shame as would love to check out the FLIRTS.

One small tip, if you decide you want to go to/from Gatwick Airport to/from London DO NOT use Gatwick Express. The premium is not worth it and the services are actually slower than the regular Southern services. (The GatEx trains aren't running currently but are due back later this year.)

[Nova Scotian]

11 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

One small tip, if you decide you want to go to/from Gatwick Airport to/from London DO NOT use Gatwick Express. The premium is not worth it and the services are actually slower than the regular Southern services. (The GatEx trains aren't running currently but are due back later this year.)

In the 90s and 00s I quite regularly went from London Victoria to Brighton or Lewes, or Reading to Gatwick Airport and then on to Brighton. (father worked near Victoria Street, and family near Brighton). Well aware of the gatwick express! I did it once when work paid for it and it was a Juniper, which was fun, and it actually ran!

 

I don't have fond memories of Connex Southeast slamdoors on that route. And not really of the 165s either - I've never really liked them or the 166s (growing up in Reading there were lots of them at one time). I've been on them in their new GWR lives and they still just seem... slow and boomy... and I have memories of baking in them in the summers of the 90s when the aircon failed. Whereas 158s I adore.

[Nova Scotian]

Arrived safely in Glasgow. Walked through Glasgow Central this evening and 66743 was there with the Royal Scotsman. 
 

Also attached are photos of some of the roof of the station from above!

[hexagon789]

52 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said:

Arrived safely in Glasgow. Walked through Glasgow Central this evening and 66743 was there with the Royal Scotsman. 
 

Also attached are photos of some of the roof of the station from above!

It's a pity you've arrived in the midst of many service cuts on the Scottish network, but at least the weather isn't half bad! ;)

[Nova Scotian]

7 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

It's a pity you've arrived in the midst of many service cuts on the Scottish network, but at least the weather isn't half bad! ;)

Funnily enough not a single Scotrail trip planned.

Tomorrow is Cross Country out, LNER back. Tuesday is Avanti out, and next week TPE back.

 

Might Scotrail next week, we'll see.

 

Bloody excited, not been on a train in three years.

[hexagon789]

1 hour ago, Nova Scotian said:

Funnily enough not a single Scotrail trip planned.

Tomorrow is Cross Country out, LNER back. Tuesday is Avanti out, and next week TPE back.

 

Might Scotrail next week, we'll see.

 

Bloody excited, not been on a train in three years.

Perhaps just as well, though hilariously even though this is Sunday the usual timetable was in operation because a reduced timetable couldn't be formulated in time! So ad hoc cancellations are in place for Sundays.

 

In an ironic twist, my local line reduced to hourly on Weekdays, saw its usual half-hourly timetable today with only the cancellation of two late evening trains and everything else running as scheduled!

[Nova Scotian]

Class 221 Voyager, 221 131 this morning was as awful as everyone said it would be. Narrow seats, no legroom, hard seat, and at a certain frequency the engine vibrations made some interior trim rattle awfully. Bouncey ride. Small windows. Nothing seemed intuitive. Had booked it for variety, wish we had walked to Queen for a 385 instead. Had also forgotten how noisy and smelly they are from the outside sometimes. 

 

Took a 158 to Inverkeithing. 158 736 Service on to Perth.  Had forgotten how good that MK3 shell is, my partner commented on how much nicer it was than the Voyager. Big windows. Ride extremely well. Loud air conditioning. 

On the way back a five car unit from Dundee, hopped on the 170 at the back for more variety. 170 406. They’re good too! Little more legroom than the 158. 

Lovely view from the bridge. 
 

LNER 801 203 back to Glasgow. Much much nicer than the Voyager. The windows are a bit bigger, luggage better designed, more legroom, extremely quiet and felt well screwed together. Partner commented on how much better it was. Ride felt a little busy compared to an HST, but very well tied down. Seats are hard and flat, but realised if I sat with good posture they were much better than if I sat my usual slumped self. They shape of them clearly had input from people who sit well!!

 

Tomorrow a West Coast Avanti. 

Saw 92 010 Caledonian sleeper with mk5s outside Glasgow Central, facing Carstairs, with a GBRF class 60 on it facing Glasgow Central. Thought that was a bit odd?! Also 92 020 in Glasgow central with coaches, couldn’t see which, about 2140 at night. Very odd (bad photo attached). 

 

[Nova Scotian]

Oh, also A LOT of class 43s, split from their sets, scattered around Haymarket. Are scotrail having reliability issues with them? That pattern of where they were etc suggested they’re swapping out failed units quite regularly and without the parts/resource flow to get them quickly back into service. 
 

Some Mk3s scattered around too, mostly singles or one three car length.

 

Much as i love/loved the HST, it looks like their time is almost up. The valenta scream is an abiding childhood memory. 

[hexagon789]

The 92s will have been waiting for the sleeper. I assume the "GBRf 60" you refer to is actually a 66? GBRf have a contract to provide 66s for the sleeper portions over unelectrified routes to Fort William, Inverness and Aberdeen as the converted 73s arent up to snuff. The 73s remain in the formation as the provide ETS which the 66s can't plus the necessary coupling adaptor as 66s can couple to Dellners.

 

You are right on the ScotRail HSTs, they have proved very unreliable, though there are fewer out anyway due to the staffing issues and service reductions.

 

There were due to be 15 diagrams from the timetable change (originally 18 up from 16 before May but later revised down). It was lucky to make 10-11 sets out at times.

 

It isn't helped by the fact ScotRail's power cars are all GEC traction motored, which were always less reliable than the standard Brush motors. Plus FGW never fitted the new WSP system that GNER, Midland Midland and CrossCountry did - so power car tyre mileages are much worse, especially in the autumn/winter.

 

Nevertheless, once the driver shortages hopefully settle out we should see all 25 sets available for service, so keeping 15 in daily traffic should be easier and hopefully an uplift will come in December.

[Ncarter2]

2 hours ago, Nova Scotian said:

Took a 158 to Inverkeithing. 158 736 Service on to Perth.  Had forgotten how good that MK3 shell is

158’s are not based on the MK3, that would be the 150’s. 

[Nova Scotian]

6 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

The 92s will have been waiting for the sleeper. I assume the "GBRf 60" you refer to is actually a 66? GBRf have a contract to provide 66s for the sleeper portions over unelectrified routes to Fort William, Inverness and Aberdeen as the converted 73s arent up to snuff. The 73s remain in the formation as the provide ETS which the 66s can't plus the necessary coupling adaptor as 66s can couple to Dellners.

 

You are right on the ScotRail HSTs, they have proved very unreliable, though there are fewer out anyway due to the staffing issues and service reductions.

 

There were due to be 15 diagrams from the timetable change (originally 18 up from 16 before May but later revised down). It was lucky to make 10-11 sets out at times.

 

It isn't helped by the fact ScotRail's power cars are all GEC traction motored, which were always less reliable than the standard Brush motors. Plus FGW never fitted the new WSP system that GNER, Midland Midland and CrossCountry did - so power car tyre mileages are much worse, especially in the autumn/winter.

 

Nevertheless, once the driver shortages hopefully settle out we should see all 25 sets available for service, so keeping 15 in daily traffic should be easier and hopefully an uplift will come in December.

This is why I was surprised - I’m certain it was a class 60. I didn’t have my camera out in time to take a photo, and we were moving so didn’t get the number. 99% certain it was a tug. 

[hexagon789]

3 hours ago, Nova Scotian said:

This is why I was surprised - I’m certain it was a class 60. I didn’t have my camera out in time to take a photo, and we were moving so didn’t get the number. 99% certain it was a tug. 

The issue is that 60s can't couple to Mk5s unless you meant it was parked adjacent to the sleeper stock but not physically coupled?

[Nova Scotian]

7 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

The issue is that 60s can't couple to Mk5s unless you meant it was parked adjacent to the sleeper stock but not physically coupled?

Must have been. We were going too quickly and I can’t confirm if they were coupled (with apparently they can’t!).

 

390 131 from Glasgow to Carlisle. Busier than usual as TPE had canceled everything on that route from driver shortages. Not refurbished yet, so lacking in luggage space despite being only 1/3rd full. Quiet, relatively comfortable. Don’t seem to be “pinched” as much by the profile for titling as the Voyager is/was, despite clearly being a little more narrow. Pointed out the tilting to my partner who feigned interest. 
 

No more trains for a week. Hoping TPE get it together as supposed to be on a 397 next week back to Glasgow central. 

[Nova Scotian]

Fitted in another 158, a 385 for the first time, and the SPT on a final half day in Scotland. 
 

The 158 to Stirling (on to Aberdeen) was woefully inadequate as a two car unit, absolutely rammed.  
 

The 385 was lovely - big windows, airy interior, smooth, excellent acceleration. The ride was a little harsh, but softer than the 800s and a million times better than the Voyager last week. 
 

SPT… an experience. Our carriage smelled of piss, the seats were damp (we hope not related, a hope that fights against reality). Hot. Uncomfortable. But extremely regular and fast!

[Nova Scotian]

And thanks to everyone for suggestions. No more train journeys for a few months, at least not NW and Scotland.