Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway - An operational question.

[tommyliam021]

I’m going to the P&BR Coal Train event tomorrow which sparked a question. As each end of the line is without runaround facilities the locomotive often propels up to four coaches (generally 3 Mk1s and a GWR inspection saloon of some sort) either to or from The nearest station with a runaround loop. My question is are there any specific laws around propelling coaches with passengers on board and if so is there a certain distance the train can travel and is there a limit to the number of coaches propelled? 
 

Apologies for the long winded post, just genuinely intrigued.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

I'm not sure. Certainly the number of trains that operate push pull on the 'big railway' means that it can't be all that much of a bother. Class 91s and mk4s doing Edinburgh to London at 125mph spring to mind. I think due to the fact that heritage railways usually operate on Light Railway principles means speeds are lower so the propelling can take place under much more controlled conditions. Just yesterday I visited the Northmpton and Lamport railway (well recommended if you can go) and their Pitsford and Brampton station is in the middle until they can finish the viaduct and the train propelled out of the station towards Boughton and that was a Southern CCT, a mk2 and a brake van.

The other option is to top and tail so there's no need to propel anything but you need two locos in steam and two crews.

 

So I'm guessing it'd be a similar situation on the P&BR although the gradients probably mean there'll be a special appendix to take it into account. It'd be interesting to look at their rule book.

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by The Evil Bus Driver

[kingfisher9147]

There are certain rules over propelling carriages with people on them. The only time people shouldn't be on a train being propelled is during shunting movements or if it is blocking the driver view but rules do change depending on the railway. 

Mike

[AMJ]

Each preserved railway has a responsible person on the coach that is at the head of the train for the propelling.  Many have a window in the gangway, set of controls for the train brakes (with vacuum often a release valve) and an audible warning device.

As these are slow speed movements there is no need for full set of controls as the guard can drop the vacuum to stop the train.

 

I would like one of the big Hunslet locos from Scunthorpe as they are radio control fitted.  The driver could stand in the coach for the propelling movement.

 

Minimum requirement will be a way to stop the train using the vacuum or air brake.

 

I have driven diesel locos on passenger service and applied a bit too much brake and stopped mid section, this is far safer than being unable to stop.  

 

Any fool can get a plane, car, bus or train going, a driver is a person who can safely stop it.

[Michael Hodgson]

In the Victorian era when the railways were being built, the man from the Ministry had to inspect the line before it could open.  They also looked at plans of what the company was proposing to build and commented before things went too far.  One of the details they would have taken exception to was the loco routinely not being at the front of the train.  However tI remember reading of a line in Scotland with a station where the loco would propel out a short distance from the terminus before reversing at a junction and proceeding normally.  This had been built before it was deemed unacceptable so Board of Trade had to concede contination under its "grandfather rights". 

 

At some point (in the early 20th Century?) push-pull working became a common practice, so I assume somebody must have made a case for it.

[AMJ]

I'm sure that there was a thread on here about locations where the passenger train needed to do a propel move.

Examples that I can think of and have ridden include (not an exhaustive list)

Far north trains heading on the avoiding side of the shed then reversing in so that the stock can continue south of Inverness.

Limerick Junction station for trains to/from Waterford.

Trains to/from Tralee need to reverse at Killarney. 

[tomparryharry]

Propelling a passenger train at Blaenavon is pretty straightforward. The leading (uphill ) coach has a cab front application, in which the guard stands. He has a brake valve, and a warning gong. The brake valve has enough capacity to overcome any vacuum force, and gets tested a couple of times, before the train enters service. 

 

It's normally propelled into the whistle platform. As it's on a rising gradient, shutting off steam brings the train to a halt pretty quickly. At the point of stopping, the vacuum brake goes in, closely followed by the steam brake. Once safe, the handbrake goes on, on both train & locomotive. Then, the steam brake is released. 

 

The line was inspected before the passenger operation (early 1990's) and is still inspected on a fairly routine basis. The Railway Inspectorate stated that the limit of propelling would be 600 yards, and that is the current limit, until the Railway reaches Waunavon.  Going south, the station at Blaenavon is nearly level, so the train can be 'run round'. Naturally, the Inspectorate gets notified of any material changes; even non-passenger-related work. It only cost tea & biscuits for a happy professional relationship.

 

I'm reliably informed that a new siding is imminent over this coming winter. I think I'm right  in saying that the RI will be informed, supported with photos & documents as required. This is a non-passenger related addition, however.  

 

Cheers,

Ian.