5'3" Broad Gauge Modellers

[VRBroadgauge]

Hi all. Just wondering if there are other modellers out there that are building 2FS models that run on 10.5mm gauge track.

I'm modelling Victorian Railways (Australia) in the 1940's. VR was mainly what I would call broad gauge (I realize that our pommy friends call the GWR 8' broad gauge) and the pioneer branch line that I'm doing was certainly so. 

It's certainly a challenge. Happily I can use HOn3 track gauges for gauge correctness and the 2mm association provides 9' sleepers. I have to re-gauge wheel-sets and have etched my own rolling stock and locomotives.

 

I'd be interested in touching base with others who are into this.

 

Bruce Cook

Australia

[Argos]

Hi Bruce,

 

I'm currently modelling Irish Railways (5' 3" gauge) so also 10.5mm gauge.

I'm just in the process of starting a new layout that I need to post some details of.

 

There  are a couple of others modelling Irish railways in 2mm finescale but they don't post on RMweb.

 

 

[Wagonmaster]

Interesting, I thought it might have Irish broad gauge at first! I model CIÉ in 4mm scale, so 21mm gauge track.

 

Be Interesting to see how you get on with 2mm VR.

 

BTW, I think GWR broad gauge was 7ft. 0 1/4in.

[VRBroadgauge]

I'd be interested in seeing your work Argos.

I'm about as far from Ireland as you can get on the globe. I don't know much about Irish railways but I will do some research. The link we have is the gauge. Where I live in oz was a break of gauge between two state systems. Wodonga was the end of the VR system (5'3") which extended to Albury on the NSWGR system (4'8.5"). There was some overlap. The broad gauge has since been rebuilt to standard but there are still lines in the state of Victoria running on the broad.

The line I'm modelling was a branch from Wodonga to Cudgewa (Cud-gee-war). Lots of 8 chain curves, 1 in 30 grades, timber trestle bridges and magnificent mountain scenery. 

I'd be interested to hear how you're coping with the amount of scratch building that modelling a broad gauge layout entails. I've learnt to design etches for all of my rolling stock and have started on my first locomotive, a Beyer Peacock 0-6-0 with a six wheel tender (VR T class). I'm lucky that I have a number of people in this country and also in the UK that are helping me.

I'd like to be able to generate a bit of discussion on broad gauge - no matter the scale. I can be a bit of a red-headed step child at times - I love watching the standard gauge boys glaze over on zoom meetings when I bring it up 😂

I'm just happy that there's others out there doing what I'm doing. If anyone needs some bits and pieces like wagon chassis or loco chassis please contact me and we'll see what we can do.

 

[VRBroadgauge]

A couple of photos of my work. The 0-6-0 os a model of a VR T class which was a Beyer Peacock design (1885). BP built the pattern locomotive and the rest were constructed at the Vulcan Foundry at Ballarat Victoria. This is my own etch from drawings prepared by me which is going together at glacial pace. It's my first attempt at scratch building a locomotive.

The trestle bridge is one that exists on the branch line that I'm modeling. This bridge is to scale. It's on an 8 chain curve and a 1:40 grade. I managed to obtain the original longitudinal sections from the construction plan set and was able to plot the actual center line natural surface levels. I'm pretty confident that they're within a bull's roar. I've used photo graphs to extrapolate the ground around the bridge. The track geometry is fairly accurate. I'm experimenting with painting and weathering. Ballast will be a problem as I can't use anything commercial as it's not fine enough. These pioneer lines were ballasted with 6" of river gravel.

I have other things which I can post if there is an interest.

[bécasse]

50 minutes ago, VRBroadgauge said:

 

Ballast will be a problem as I can't use anything commercial as it's not fine enough. These pioneer lines were ballasted with 6" of river gravel.

It is possible to grind down sand of the correct colour to make a very realistic looking gravel ballast. However, be warned that grinding sand is not conducive to a long life for the grinder!

[mike morley]

The sand intended for children's playpits is usually ultra-fine, as is the sand sold in pet shops for pet reptiles.  I've seen chinchilla dust recommended many times but I've found it can vary considerably in grade.

[VRBroadgauge]

This is a model of a VR T class 0-6-0 that I'm building (albeit at glacial pace). The etch is mine and seems to be working ok without too many problems. The original pattern locomotive was made by Beyer Peacock in 1885 and then copies made here in Victoria at Phoenix Foundry in Ballarat. I haven't decided what I'll make the body out of but I'm leaning towards a mixture of brass and 3D prints. I'll try and get a DCC sound chip squeezed into the tender if I can.

[Argos]

On 06/05/2022 at 12:47, VRBroadgauge said:

I'd be interested in seeing your work Argos.

HI VRBroadgauge,

 

Apologies for my tardiness in responding, I've been busy with a lot of non-modelling projects.

 

I do have a thread here on RMWeb, although haven't updated it much having fallen out of the intermediate habit with the recent down issues:

 

 

For the most part I've been posting on the Irish Railway Modeller forum:

 

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/7634-dromahair/

 

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/8592-the-sligo-to-larass-branch-of-the-mgwr-with-a-bit-of-help-from-the-slncr/

 

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/9999-the-5p-workbench/

 

Generally I try to keep to a more Irish Railway theme on the Irish site and a more 2mm finescale theme over here.

 

On 06/05/2022 at 12:47, VRBroadgauge said:

I'd be interested to hear how you're coping with the amount of scratch building that modelling a broad gauge layout entails

 

I start broad gauge modelling as a side project for the Diamond Jubliee Layout Competition (Although the module has been abandoned now in favour of something more ambitious).

The intent was to scratch build a loco and a handful of wagons and supplement with one or two kit built coaches and converted R-T-R locos backup (Two LMS Jinties ran in Northern Ireland. Totally geographically inaccurate for the location I was modelling but a useful and quick (so I thought) back up).

 

In actuality there is quite of bit of resource available for the Irish 2mm modeller.  A shot down etch of the ubiquitous GSWR J15 0-6-0 loco was commissioned a while back and thanks to the kindness of some fellow 2mm modellers I have some of these gifted from their "gloat" piles. I've also persuaded one of the cottage manufacturers to shoot down some his 4mm scale etches to 2mm so have a MGWR G2 2-4-0 and a GSWR D17 4-4-0 awaiting construction. He also did his MGWR horse box and meat van for me.

 

3d printing has been another boon with some locos, wagons and coaches available on Shapeways and via another cottage industry supplier.

Finally there is the Worsley Work range of scratch aid coaches that also help fill a gap.

 

That's not to say I won't have to scratch build at some point, for instance I haven't been able to find a suitable brake van, but I've plenty to go at before I do!

[VRBroadgauge]

I've just had a read of your posts Argos. Those locos are excellent. Try getting hold of some Micro Engineering (USA) code 40 HOn3 tri gauges for your track. They are 10.5mm by a happy accident. I've had a bobbin gauge turned up by a friend up north.

My wagon chassis and bodies are etched in 0.3mm nickel silver to my design. I must say your 3D printed beasties are very nice. I've done about five different wagons so far. I experimented with the chassis' before committing to the bodies. Whilst the underbody details are fairly simple I have a reasonable representation of the brakes/handbrakes. VR wagons had air brakes so we've 3D printed the air reservoirs and will glue them in the appropriate position. I'm just going through the design process for a 15' tri-axel chassis which our guards vans (Z vans) and some early reefer vans, horse boxes and ventilated vans had.

If you're interested in VR stock take a look at www.victorianrailways.net which has great resources. There may be something of use to you.

[Sithlord75]

 

Screen shot of the VR S type carriages under construction - a bit more of the underframe and roof line to go and then test shots.  This is the corridor side.

 

Go to http://www.victorianrailways.net/pass cars/pass car pages/as/as.html to checkout the prototype for the First Class - the differences between first and second are all internal - 3 a side seating in the firsts and four a side seating the seconds.  The second run of coaches were welded, not rivetted and this will be done too.  Crazy?  Probably.  The ambition is to do all the various types of S cars - First, Second, Dining, Buffet, Palor, Mail, Guards Van and State Car 5 and end up with all 39 examples.  Only two of the 39 vehicles in the S series have been scrapped - DS1 (the mail van) after conversion to CS2 and AS7.  The rest are still around and of the original 13 vehicles built for the SoP in 1937, all but DS1 are around.

 

[VRBroadgauge]

 
 

Two out of three spacers installed. The tender spacers will be diabolical to do but we soldier on. 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by VRBroadgauge

[VRBroadgauge]

 

My latest batch of etches from PPD. This is a VR I wagon. 11’6” axel centres. Over 3000 of these were constructed. Many were later butchered into other stock. 
 

This is an M wagon (cattle). Loading doors were at the left - not centrally placed as in other places. There’s a nice elegant transparency with the spaces between the planks. 

 

This is a VR T van (refrigerator). The ice hatches will be 3D printed and glued in. 

 

This one is a bit of a lucky dip. There’s a full train shed etch for St Albans Abbey for Kev Knight. There’s some TT detail parts for a local mate and some level crossing gates and architectural details for me. 
PPD has been excellent. This whole shooting match only took 9 days to get from Scotland to just about as far away as you can get on the planet. I’ve received great service from them. 

[Caley Jim]

Couldn't agree more about PPD, and that's not just because I'm a scot. I've always had excellent service from them and am expecting a delivery from them any day.

 

Jim

[Sithlord75]

Fresh etches are a thing of beauty!  I shall do something about the train shed when I get back from the DJ Expo.

[VRBroadgauge]

 

My K wagon flat body married to my 10’ 6” chassis. Worked first time - will wonders ever cease? I couldn’t get the bolt heads on the planking but I did simulate them with indents. These models will be part of some WW2 material goods trains that were on the line that I’m modelling. Both VR (5’3”) and NSWGR (4’8 1/2”) were used so I’ll have to come up with some dual gauge gauntlet trackage. 
Anyone achieved this?

[Caley Jim]

15 minutes ago, VRBroadgauge said:

I couldn’t get the bolt heads on the planking but I did simulate them with indents. 

If you want bolt heads on full thickness parts, half-etch dimples on the back and the use a sharp point (scriber or such like) to push up a 'bump' on the front.

 

Jim

[VRBroadgauge]

 

As part of the testing of my etches I get my friend Steve Bigelow to assemble and check for any mistakes. So far so good. This is a VR T van on the left and a K wagon on the right.

[VRBroadgauge]

 

M wagon. To say I’m pretty happy with this is an understatement.  
I wagon. Work in progress but looking good. 
T van with ice hatches to be soldered on. My friend Steve is building these as a diagnostic on the etches. So far so good. 

[VRBroadgauge]

 

The I wagon has basically been completed by Steve. Just needs Z scale couplers and a paint job. Note the grab rails. 

[VRBroadgauge]

 

Like most I’ve got a few things cooking at the same time. 
I finally got the spacers soldered in on the T class. Next job is drivers and gears. 

[Robert Shrives]

Hi 

What is the back to back for 10.5 mm gauge - I have some 6mm dia 2mmfs wheels on 15.2 mm axles and was wondering ? Not asking for a friend but looking to disappear down Irish 2mmfs worm hole...  I have rails and sleepers as a start and thinking on how to covert some farish MK2 into AC stock - need to sort A or 071..

Robert  

[Argos]

2 hours ago, Robert Shrives said:

What is the back to back for 10.5 mm gauge

 

Hi Robert, by reference to the standards chart on the association web site:

 

http://www.2mm.org.uk/standards/underframe.htm

 

"standard gauge" (9.42mm) had back to backs of 8.5mm, so by simple extrapolation 10.5mm gauge should have back to backs of 9.58mm. 

I tend to use 9.6mm I'm not convinced the 0.02mm (about 0.8 thou in old money) makes a difference even if could work to those tolerances! 

 

 

[VRBroadgauge]

9.6 mm is about right. I've got all my design dimensions written down but not within arms reach at the moment. A friend milled up some spacers which have been extremely useful.

I'll check all my design notes and post what I have.

[VRBroadgauge]

Here's the dimensions that I use.

 

Back to back for wheel sets - 9.6mm

 

Association axles - 13.7mm

 

I use a jig made out of 0.5mm and 0.25mm styrene (plasticard) laminated together with a hole drilled to take the end if the axle. Use a flat surface like a piece of glass and put the end of the axle into the hole and push the wheel down until it moves no more. The end of the axle to the face of the wheel is 0.75mm.

 

If you're doing your own etches the distance on wagon chassis frames is 13.6mm O/A (outside dimension).

I don't recess the wheel bearings so the distance internally between the bearing faces is 12.6mm. I use 0.3mm NS for my etches exclusively. I will be experimenting with 0.2mm NS for my lacework signal posts and possibly a VR L wagon (sheep).

 

If you're doing a locomotive chassis I've allowed 0.45mm from the back of the wheel face (not the axle boss) to the chassis frame. Therefore the dimension for the outside of the chassis is 8.7mm O/A.