Martin's 2mm Musings (and maybe a layout...)

[martin580120]

I've been an occasional poster in a couple of the other topics on here and thought it way maybe time to start one of my own, to catalogue my intended layout build.

 

I have been playing with layout design over the last few weeks. I'd initially had an idea of a small shunting layout, based around the Daluinne distillery, but as I got closer to cutting baseboards etc. I just wasn't feeling it.

 

I went away and had a read of some books, well, looked at the pictures and played in AnyRail to try and find a trackplan I was happier with.

 

To help visualise it, and to test the trackplan etc. I printed my ideas at 50% scale (i.e. 1mm/ft) so I could lay it out on the dining room table and played until I was happy. 

A book I found incredibly useful was the Caledonian Railway Assocation's "Signalling the Caledonian Railway" - a lot of my interest in railways comes from the signalling side so it was a fascinating book from that point of view, but there were a lot of diagrams and pictures of stations, and one trackplan that caught my eye was of Barnton - an Edinburgh suburban terminus with attached goods facilities.  However, being from the Greater Glasgow area, I couldn't model an Edinburgh terminus for moral reasons, so I transposed the trackplan to somewhere in the South Side of Glasgow, connecting to Glasgow Central as a commuter line.  I really like non-corridor coaching stock, so being able to use this was a driving factor on this plan too.

 

I used 1mm greyboard to build a model of the intended model, mounting the trackplan to the greyboard and planning the scenery around it. This has been very useful in understanding how everything is going to go together - previous layouts in other scales have been done "on the fly" to normally disastrous consequences, so I wanted to stop and think this one through.

 

 

One of the photos I was particularly taken with in my procrastination was of tenements backing onto the railway, and I thought this would look fantastic in model form. I turned to Google to see if I could find a kit for half relief Glasgow tenements. There is printable kit available online which I did print and look at, but having lived in a couple of Tenements across Glasgow (Dowanhill & Yorkhill primarily, but I did stay in Battlefield for a while) in my student days, it didn't *feel* right, so I decided to make my own based off my own memories of what it should look like.

 

In my imagination, the Tenements will loom over the railway, they are the backdrop to the trains, so become integral to the scene I want to portray. If I couldn't get these to look the part, it was back to the drawing board for the whole layout.

 

A trip to the Mitchell Library, in Glasgow, and I left with scans of the original Glasgow Corporation Plans for a couple of variants of Tenement buildings. All, handily, with Imperial measurements making conversion to 2mm/ft much easier, in my head at least.

 

Realisation soon sunk in that there is a lot of windows in a tenement building. 43 and a door per block on a B2 Type to be exact, and my scratchbuilding skills are nowhere near good enough to do that accurately or repeatably. I follow a number of the YouTube model railways and Everard Junction recently showed off a Cricut machine to great effect. My wife happens to own one, so it was pressganged into railway service.

 

 

Several design iterations later...

 

 

Proof of concept! These can be machine cut accurately and repeatably as many times as I need them. Plus, the machine will cut 20thou Plastikard, and textured Plastikard, making this a realistic prospect. This particular design iteration isn't perfect - the central close windows needed moved up a bit, which was done on the next test.

 

Now to see how it looks on the model. I scaled my 2mm/ft design to 1mm/ft and set about creating several to fill the gap and see how it would look. I previously had some Scalescenes papers downloaded for another project so used these to help give the impression of what I'm after...

 

 

Here 8 off B2 Tenements stand above the intended station area. These are rough models more of cheap card with no window/door/interior detail and lack chimney stacks that will be present on the real thing. The gap where a ninth would be is the result of the Luftwaffe's "remodelling" of Clydeside in 1941 in my narrative.

 

 

One advantage of this model was the realisation that I need to make the station a wee bit shorter in order to make the streetscene that will box it in more believable, so the right hand block of tenements starts where that will be - which also removed the need for those portals in the end wall.

 

With all of this going so well over the weekend, I took advantage of the uncharastically dry Sunday for this part of the world and attacked some plywood with a circular saw to start making up baseboards. More to follow...

Edited November 9, 2022 by martin580120
Added a paragraph explaining which city I'm talking about...

[Lacathedrale]

Tanith First and Only AND a mention of Dailuaine? Nice :) 

 

I've seen good work with a cameo cutter, I wonder if thick card might cut more straight than the styrene which looks a bit like it's been chewed up in the corners?

 

Also, is the front of your model-as-a-model the perimeter of the layout? I only ask because it looks like you've got about 1/2" between the front track and the baseboard edge which seems like it might be optimistic? It might also affect your options for photographs of anything on the foreground (with the fascia in-frame) and lighting (where the light should really overhang the foremost siding?

 

Other than that, I like the track plan - it seems to be a good compromise for a terminus layout that's pilot-assisted, and a little inglenook goods yard. If you were taking suggestions, I might also consider a separate headshunt for the goods yard off the platform runaround - that would make much more sense from a realism perspective IMO.

 

Take care!

[John57sharp]

This is all very interesting and I’m looking forward to hearing more!

 

John

[martin580120]

6 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Tanith First and Only AND a mention of Dailuaine? Nice :) 

 

I've seen good work with a cameo cutter, I wonder if thick card might cut more straight than the styrene which looks a bit like it's been chewed up in the corners?

 

Also, is the front of your model-as-a-model the perimeter of the layout? I only ask because it looks like you've got about 1/2" between the front track and the baseboard edge which seems like it might be optimistic? It might also affect your options for photographs of anything on the foreground (with the fascia in-frame) and lighting (where the light should really overhang the foremost siding?

 

Other than that, I like the track plan - it seems to be a good compromise for a terminus layout that's pilot-assisted, and a little inglenook goods yard. If you were taking suggestions, I might also consider a separate headshunt for the goods yard off the platform runaround - that would make much more sense from a realism perspective IMO.

 

Take care!

 

Thanks for the encouragement and feedback. You missed the bottle of Blair Atholl 12 year on the bookcase - there's a couple of others hidden by the plywood for the baseboards too! As for the Tanith, I've been playing 40K on and off since 1999!

 

I think the corners of the windows are likely to do with the settings on the Cricut - my wife's tool doesn't have the deep cut blade (guess what she's getting for Christmas...) and it's an older tool which doesn't have the ability to control the blade direction when cutting, the blade drags as the substrate or the head moves, so it does chew the corners a bit as it changes direction. I've also not cut right the way through the plastikard and had to use a scalpel to finish the job. Later attempts using multiple passes look much better.

 

I'm likely to extend the edge of the board for some more space between the siding and the edgennof the board on the real layout, I mismeasured the space I have available at that end of the railway room, closer to 2' rather than the 18" modelled, however I only realised this when standing in that corner of the room this afternoon... "measure twice, cut once" etc.

 

I had been avoiding a headshunt because the only way I can think of making it work is to put a slip in off the runaround closest to the viewing edge rather than the simpler turnout that's there just now. I'm not sure I'm confident, competent or capable enough to build one of those (until we get a FineTrax kit in 2mm anyway!).

 

The track plan is lifted from the Caledonian Railway Association signalling book from the diagram of Barnton, adjusted for space and simplified a wee bit, to fit the turnouts I have "in stock" or available from the association as Easitrac or FineTrax. The CRA Diagram of Barnton doesn't have a headshunt, but does have a couple more sidings. I'll have another play with the track plan and see if I can make it work, as I do think it would make sense to have it.

Edited November 9, 2022 by martin580120

[nick_bastable]

would like to see a track plan

 

I have used a craft cutter in the past but always required me to "sharpen the corners" with a scalpel   now I tend to use a laser although often hand cut for one offs

 

Excellent model of the model have you tried it with model ( ie paper ) trains to see if it works ?  although if your clever you can do that in Templot

 

what era stock do you intend running ?

 

well done

 

Nick B

 

 

[martin580120]

Hi Nick,

 

Track plan below - it's a capture of a capture using the MS Snipping tool so has lost some definition, but I think it's clear enough...

 

 

Each box is 6" x 6" for a total length size of 8' x 2', the plan for storage and potential transport is two boards 4' x 1' and 4' by 2'.

 

As per the above, the only place I see a headshunt working for the good yard would be to replace the circled turnout with a slip with a line heading back out towards the left hand board edge as per the below:

 

 

I have played with some paper cut to roughly the right lengths (based on measurements of stock I have) so the layout should work for what I'm intending. (hopefully).  I did start playing with Templot but I found the learning curve quite steep even with the extensive tutorials and videos - I can generate single templates for "basic" track, but linking anything together is a bit beyond me currently.  The 2mm C&L Library in AnyRail seems to match the templot templates for individual turnouts etc. and I'm much more used to playing with it!

 

I'm intending 1958 - 62(ish) BR(ScR) - any later than 1962 most of the Glasgow Suburban network was electrified and run using Class 303s, whereas my interest is mostly steam.

Martin

[Lacathedrale]

I would definitely replace the circled turnout with a single slip as you have described. I am a beginner also - I built three turnouts and a crossover and with that experience it was a piece of cake to build the single slip. It LOOKS more complicated than it really is, I promise you. Maybe you could make the goods yard sidings first, or the running lines and platform roads, and then make the decision? I built my single slip without any intention of integrated it into a layout, just as a 'can I do this' exercise - and I was surprised.

 

With regard to Templot - I'm happy to help however I can, I think the throat might benefit from the running lines being at a standard 6' way instead of wider and that will mean a Wye or something akin. I'm happy to quickly sketch it up for you, but only if you're interested in making any changes - otherwise it's a bit of wasted time :) Let me know.

 

@nick_bastable it seems that a laser cutter is pretty de rigeur for serious modellers these days - are you sending designs off or cutting them at home on a domestic appliance? I'm wondering how many slaters embossed sheets I'll need to do the equivalent of for a laser cutter to be financially worthwhile...

 

Thanks,

William

 

[martin580120]

12 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

I would definitely replace the circled turnout with a single slip as you have described. I am a beginner also - I built three turnouts and a crossover and with that experience it was a piece of cake to build the single slip. It LOOKS more complicated than it really is, I promise you. Maybe you could make the goods yard sidings first, or the running lines and platform roads, and then make the decision? I built my single slip without any intention of integrated it into a layout, just as a 'can I do this' exercise - and I was surprised.

 

With regard to Templot - I'm happy to help however I can, I think the throat might benefit from the running lines being at a standard 6' way instead of wider and that will mean a Wye or something akin. I'm happy to quickly sketch it up for you, but only if you're interested in making any changes - otherwise it's a bit of wasted time :) Let me know.

 

@nick_bastable it seems that a laser cutter is pretty de rigeur for serious modellers these days - are you sending designs off or cutting them at home on a domestic appliance? I'm wondering how many slaters embossed sheets I'll need to do the equivalent of for a laser cutter to be financially worthwhile...

 

Thanks,

William

 

Hi William,

 

The more I look at it, the more I think putting in the single slip would be worthwhile - as I say, I'm just not hugely confident in my ability to build it. I've only built Easitrac and FineTrax turnouts - I have ordered some sleeper strip, chairplates and jigs for trying to build my own turnouts as I wanted to put some interlaced turnouts in the goods area.

 

If you would be so kind as to sketch it in Templot it really would be greatly appreciated, as I am still planning - one of my reasons for sharing the trackplan etc. is to get feedback and build on others knowledge and experience.

 

I started the running lines further apart in the throat as the plan is to have a single island platform - I'd originally planned on having the station building on the platform, similar to many of the stations on the Cathcart Cirlce (see below link to a Facebook image of Mount Florida) - but I think now, having the station building at street level is where I'm going to go, so having a narrower platform, and thus spacing the throat closer together is possible.

 

https://m.facebook.com/theglasgowchronicles/photos/a.2515616675211400/2515622155210852/

 

 

[nick_bastable]

I use a home based small laser  but Mrs B uses it for craft projects  which ofsets its cost somewhat.

 

Martin the two points to the right of the baseboard join may be a issue been so close to the joint

 

Nick

[Lacathedrale]

I personally found that soldering rail to PCB sleepers was far easier than Easitrac and FineTrax - infinite tweakability and far more robust at the cost of looking a little less realistic. There are obviously multiple levels: You can solder direct to the PCB strip, or use the versaline plates to raise the rail off the sleepers for a prototypical gap, or do what @justin1985 has been so successful with fully etched chairs, or a hybrid method with PCB and etched chairs/plates around the common crossing for the best of both worlds. 

 

re: @nick_bastable's advice about the crossover I can only agree - my biggest mistake was putting a turnout hard up against the baseboard edge, it gave me no end of trouble.

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[martin580120]

@nick_bastable, @Lacathedrale - thanks for the feedback, greatly appreciated.

 

I've intended to move the top turnout, leading to the run around for the top platform, across to the other side of the board join to extend the available space in the platform - I'd "planned" two rakes of coaching stock, one of maybe 6 off 57' non corridor stock, the other of 3-4 and planned the run-arounds accordingly, on later reflection, having the most space available for both platforms is preferable for futureproofing and play value.  I've just not got round to updating the track plan yet.

The other point is slightly more problematic, I can put a run of plain track to move it back from the board edge at the expense of siding length - though I could probably gain another inch or so towards the far right of the board by extending everything that way.

 

I am slightly space constrained in that I have 11' of wall I can use to have the layout up semi-permanently the above plan is 8' which allows me a 3' board for cassettes/storage which is about right for the planned train lengths.  I could dispose of the crossover on the left hand board, or save maybe an inch or two by making them B6 rather than B7 points (and obviously bringing the tracks closer together), which might give a wee bit more room for manoeuvre.

 

I hadn't considered a laser cutter if I'm honest - some friends have a fairly large one for making stuff to fundraise for Scout events, so I could explore that avenue - they have laser cut acrylic for me for medals/trophies before but I'd never thought about asking about plastikard.

[Lacathedrale]

I was thinking mainly independent of this thread - just out loud in response to Nick's mention of a laser cutter. Maybe more prudent than a 3D printer if rolling stock isn't a problem? Anyway....

 

Re: your point of a 6 coach train, why not make that one which requires special treatment, rather than worrying about a runaround? Signal bell codes for that kind of thing exist and it would add operational interest, rather than constrain it. Annoyingly, Parallels on my Mac requires a restart after update and I'm in the middle of a fair bit of work at the moment so I can't get to Templot.

 

What is the rear runaround for? Of course you're welcome to it, but it doesn't seem like it's adding much particularly if it's hard up against the retaining wall you've illustrated. I would be inclined to omit it - and maybe remove the curve on the outermost goods track so it sticks out at an angle for a very short end loading dock track? 

 

Just some thoughts, feel free to ignore. Templot soon, sorry!

[martin580120]

@Lacathedrale thanks for looking into the Templot, again I really appreciate it. I should also really be working, but this is much more interesting! I am really enjoying the conversation this has generated, it's forcing me to explain through thoughts and decisions that existed solely in my head until the last few days, which is something I find very useful.

 

I'm also having the 3d printer debate with myself - I'm playing a lot of Star Wars Legion currently and there's a lot of 3rd party miniatures that look wonderful, but I lack a means of producing currently.

 

The 6 coach train was intended as a peak service, I'm drawing a lot of inspiration from the Cathcart Circle which currently runs 6 car units on peak and 3 car off peak, from some googling it seems this seems reasonable for the period I want to model too. I then thought it would be useful to model for the longest "normal" service, i.e 6 off 57' coaches and a loco (nominally something like an Ex Caledonian 439 class, but giving my the opportunity to use something as large as a Black 5 if/when I get round to making one) but I could drop that to 5 and 3 or 4 and 2 etc. should I need to. Specials can be accommodated if/when I have the stock to worry about them.

 

The rear run around is there for two reasons, first, as much as this is not a true and accurate reproduction of Barnton, the real Barnton had one, so it sort of made sense to follow that example. Second, it means I can operate without a pilot loco, which is currently handy as I only have a single loco converted to 2mmFS with two at various stages of building. I can also use the end as carriage storage etc. I could omit it, but it does feel handy.

 

Please do keep feeding me thoughts and suggestions, I might not take everything on board, but it's food for thought, and I'd rather do this one right - it's attempt no.3 at a railway for me, none of the previous two ever reaching completion before I realised I'd made irreparable errors that made continuing more effort than fun.

[Lacathedrale]

Well, and I speak from painful experience - is a layout of this size with (by your design) three crossovers, a slip, and five? turnouts really a sensible choice for a first railway? I built a model of Hepton Bridge/Wharf which was two turnouts and a crossover and it got my eye right in, even though I didn't take it any further than a basic scenic treatment - because like you, I had many false starts. I am still having false starts, mind you! :) I'm just saying that I spent over a year trying to model in 2FS without even getting a single train running and it completely sapped my enthusiasm and drove me to milder climes. I'm back now, but it was a long journey in confidence to get here and I'm still not there yet.

 

Nevertheless, here's a rough approximation of your plan in Templot in an 8' x 2' baseboard:

 

 

I've omitted the upper crossover and one of the goods yard roads. The upper road is shorter on the assumption there would be a station building top-right, but of course you could extend it if you wanted. The throat is arranged with a normal crossover leftmost, then a Y-turnout attached to a larger #. I think I got the calculation wrong hence the kink, but there will be a 'perfect' number which will allow the top track to remain straight throughout the formation. 

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[nick_bastable]

Plastic can be tricky to laser  personally I use card and/or ply

 

 

[Caley Jim]

The latest issue of The True Line (Journal of the Caledonian Railway Association) has an article on Kilbirnie and Barnton entitled 'Twin Termini', both having almost identical station layouts and buildings across the end of the platform.  Another CR terminus with a similar layout of a single 'peninsular' platform was Airdrie, which had stone buildings, drawings of which appeared in TTL No. 4, February 1984.  I have the 4mm scale originals, drawn from site measurements.  However, by Martin's period the overall roof had gone and passenger services had ceased.  Airdrie had the additional operating interest of a service to Newmains, via Calderbank, in addition to that into Glasgow.

 

Re turnouts near baseboard joints.  On Kirkallanmuir I have several turnouts close to the baseboard joints and indeed both joints divide a crossover.  See bottom of this picture of one joint.

 

 

What I did was to fasten the two boards together, screw countersunk brass screw in under each rail.  All the track was then laid across the joint as if the joint wasn't there and using brass sleepers either side of the joint.  These sleepers were then securely soldered to the screws.  Once ALL the track hade been laid across the joint the rails were cut with a razor saw and the boards separated.  the brass sleepers could then be cut in the centre for insulation, working from the end of the board.  This way the rail ends are securely achored and it is straightforward to line up all the rails across the joint when re-assembling.

 

Admittedly i haven't done a huge amount of running, but the boards have been apart and back together several times and I've had no problems running over the joints provided care is taken in aligning them.

 

Jim

[martin580120]

@Lacathedrale thanks for the Templot, it helps me visualise it a lot better.

 

I did question myself whether this was too ambitious but I have built every component, but the single slip, before now in 2mm and I have had running railways in other scales, but had issues with the baseboards or scenics or limitation of the track plan etc. that ended up causing me grief to fix/patch etc. 

 

All of which I'm reasonably sure I've learnt the lessons from and won't be as much of an issue this time round - hence also asking for thoughts and feedback before I commit to anything too much. Plus I'm fairly active with the Forth and Clyde Area Group who seem to have never ending patience for my continual questions and are a constant source of advice.

 

@Caley Jim thanks for that information - I really need to get round to joining the CRA, I keep thinking about it then never sending in the form... I was thinking of having the main station building at street level, a bit like with yours - though what it ends up looking like I'm not sure yet.

[Ian Smith]

Similar to Jim but not quite the same, I have a whole turnout straddling a baseboard joint - switch on one board and crossing on t’other. Never given any problems, again like Jim my rails are soldered to brass screws at the baseboard edges.  Modbury has been out to 8 or 9 exhibitions since this was layed (and separated and re-erected many times at home , including 2 house moves). I really don’t know what all the fuss is about 🤣

Like so many things, care and attention are paid in the first place pays dividends.

Ian

PS I always was a bit of a maverick 😂

Edited November 9, 2022 by Ian Smith

[Caley Jim]

1 hour ago, Ian Smith said:

PS I always was a bit of a maverick 😂

You and me both, Ian!  😉

 

Jim

[Lacathedrale]

@Caley Jim and @Ian Smith while it's clearly workable I might highlight (without any disparagement to @martin580120 or self-denigration) that your skill level may not be typical! 

 

@martin580120 if you want any templot tweaks - like adding in the extra runaround at the rear, more roads, etc. please let me know. 

 

[martin580120]

@Lacathedrale, I'd be the first to say Jim is a far more skilled and experienced modeller than I!

 

It is my intention to avoid turnouts stradling baseboard joins, and I should have enough wiggle room to avoid this. (hopefully)

Could you possibly send me the templot file - I can PM you my email address if that helps - I'd like to print it at scale and lay it out to see how it looks "in the flesh".

 

 

[Caley Jim]

6 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

@Caley Jim and @Ian Smith while it's clearly workable I might highlight (without any disparagement to @martin580120 or self-denigration) that your skill level may not be typical! 

I would suggest that it's more about patience, care and attention to detail and accuracy.

 

Jim

[Ian Smith]

22 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

@Caley Jim and @Ian Smith while it's clearly workable I might highlight (without any disparagement to @martin580120 or self-denigration) that your skill level may not be typical! 

 

Very kind of you to say so but I would like to say that Modbury is my first 2FS layout and when I started it I had not done any track building (or any other railway modelling) for well over 20 years.  
 

For info, my baseboards are located together with brass dowels and sockets and bolted up solid with 6mm bolts.  Experience has shown that this approach gives perfect track alignment every time because the boards “lock” together perfectly every time.  It therefore matters not how many rails cross the baseboard joints so long as they are secure (by being soldered to brass screws) very close to the baseboard edge, and of course those rails were laid level and in line originally.

 

As Jim said, patience, care and attention to detail is all that is required - remember that your permanent way should be exactly that - permanent - most things that come after can be replaced if you feel your skills have developed sufficiently to render early efforts replaceable.

Ian

[Lacathedrale]

@Ian Smith be that as it may, the bare-faced fact is that your output is among the top tier. Regarding supporting rails over baseboard joins, won't screws potentially blow out if they're very close to the edge of the surface? What kind of screw size are we talking here? I had some moderate success using oversized PCB sleepers araldited to the baseboard surface but it was not the most elegant! 

 

@martin580120 email me at will <removethis, no spaces> ayerst@gmail.com and let me know if you want any further tweaks before I send it over.

 

Thanks,

[martin580120]

The second Saturday of the month is the regular meeting of the Forth and Clyde Area Group, where I took the model of the model to get some more input from those who know (a lot) more than me.

 

It was a very productive meeting for me - fitting Simpson springs to my J94 Chassis, discussing how to build compact stay alive's - one of which will end up in the J94, and I think I've got a fairly sensible solution to the track plan without having to resort to a slip - many of those present warned against not the construction but the wiring.

 

 

Still 8' long, with the left hand board now at 15" and the right hand at 21" maximum width.  It's now on a 3" x 3" grid to help with drawing in the baseboards - the red lines representing the edge of the wood.

 

My thanks to @Caley Jim who suggested moving the entry to the goods yard off the headshunt, which means I can avoid a slip(!) - it's a bit more clunky but it's not unprototypical ( off the top of my head Largs had a similar arrangement, albeit not in the same position, and whilst that's an ex-G&SW terminus, I'm not modelling an exact location built by a real company).  It provides the advantage that I can build the above all from the turnout kits available in Shop 1, and have a collection of B6 and B7 "in stock", (some are even built...)  I need just two RH B6 Turnouts to complete everything but the goods yard, and I intend on building the three turnouts there as interlaced (currently...)

 

I've even managed to avoid placing anything but plain line across the board joints!

 

I've printed the above plan at both 50% and real size to lay out and have a play with pushing some stock and/or paper around to make sure it works for me.  I've booked my dad out in a fortnight to help with the carpentry for baseboard construction (I can't cut a straight line to save my life, even with a guide I seem to end up with wonky cuts...) which is fortunate, because I think I've been booked today to show this next May. Nothing like a deadline...

Edited November 12, 2022 by martin580120
Spelling and Grammar